Francis to create commission to study female deacons in Catholic church

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twf said:
Very true. From what I’ve read, permanent deacons are quite rare outside of the US and Italy (with a few other exceptions scattered here and there). In Western Canada they are almost unheard of. The Archdiocese of Vancouver now has several, but the formation program for permanent deacons was only instituted within the last 5 years or so. In a neighbouring diocese (my home diocese), the bishop has made it very clear that there will NOT be permanent deacons.
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This is actually quite sad. Permanent deacons have a very important part to play in the Church; one that is quite distinct from that of priests. Reintroducing the permanent diaconate to the Western Church (it hadn’t really gone away in the Eastern Churches) was one of the most important reforms of the Second Vatican Council.
 
JimG said:
Male deacons are clergy. The three degrees of Holy Orders are Deacon, Priest, Bishop. But women, even women deaconesses in the early Church, did not and cannot receive ordination.

Of course, in the early Church, there were not orders of nuns as there are now. And as pianistclare mentioned, there is now a trend toward lay ministries in many areas of parish and Church life, involving both women and men, often with advanced theological degrees.

If the point of such a commission is to study female deacons as a foothold to ordination, it would be a mistake, as women cannot be ordained.
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Beat me to it, and did a better job than I would have 👍

I would just add that in our parish the wives of our permanent deacons are doing the work of “deaconesses” in a big way. They are very much behind the scenes, but they are doing great work.
 
I wonder, if this were to pass, would the Hoy See’ allow individual Bishops over their Dioceses’ to refrain from using females in that role.
 
DaddyGirl said:
According to several definitions of the word “clergy” that I have seen, in the specific context of the Catholic church, this is what I find repeatedly:

Ordained clergy in the Roman Catholic Church are either deacons, priests, or bishops belonging to the diaconate, the presbyterate, or the episcopate, respectively.

So being a deacon is being a part of the clergy.
Are you saying that a male would be “ordained” to be a deacon, but a woman would just be, I dunno, asked or *hired *or named or other-verb-here-but-not-ordained to be a deacon?
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Yes, it is correct that ordination to Holy Orders consists of three orders: deacon, priest, and bishop. They are all clergy. But since women cannot be ordained, any women deaconesses would be a lay ministry, not ordained clergy.
 
Thank you for clarifying. I was rather surprised when I read your post, it’s good to know I misread it! :o

I would like more men to step up, too. I don’t know the best way to do that on a large scale, but it is something we work on at home. 🙂
 
An interesting article about the role of the deaconess in the early Church, much of which has not been noted here, from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

newadvent.org/cathen/04651a.htm

After reading this, I think perhaps maybe a new commission is not a bad idea. However, it does NOT suggest there was any move to ordain women to the priesthood. Their function was much more encompassing than has been discussed here, though, according to the article.

I do not believe the Pope has opened the door to female priesthood, just a re-study of the role of deaconesses historically in the Church, and I believe he probably already is familiar with the previous study, as it was not exactly a secret.
 
clem456 said:
Has anyone taken the time to read what Pope Francis actually said?
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Have you found his actual words? Even the story on the Vatican Radio website doesn’t have his actual words and said that his comments were part of an off-the-cuff, question and answer portion of a closed door meeting with women religious.

I’m not inclined to start hyperventilating. Having a commission study the issue and coming up with a concrete answer won’t be a bad thing. Then various groups and blogs can stop clamoring for it once the issue has been settled.

A commission to study the issue is far different from “I think this is a great idea, let’s get a group of people to implement it.” Hopefully the study will help bring to the forefront further info about the “deaconesses” of the early Church.
 
It is hardly idle speculation. It is an important consideration. We shall see what happens.
 
No, no, no! This must not be permitted.

It is unscriptural. :mad: It is not the will of God!
 
I think this can be said of many Christian churches, not just the Catholic ones. The question, then, is “how do we get men to carry their weight?” This is a weighty question. And certainly, having female deaconesses as a recognized role, even if it’s not an ordained one, might send a message to men that “unless you want to be a priest, the Church doesn’t really need anything extra from you, the women are doing enough. Just show up to Mass and contribute to the collection.”

Now some posters here may very well think women should “just go home”, and let the Church crumble enough so that men have no choice but to step in. Somehow like some people think the best way to save a particular political party, is to let it crumble.

But, there’s a difference between thinking women should stop the work they’re doing for the Church now, and thinking “If the Church makes deaconesses a thing, that’ll give men even LESS of a reason to step up”.
 
As to the assertion that the Catholic Church is to “feminine” I have in the past studied the gender balance at the parishes I have attended (instead of doing something useful :p).

The early morning Daily Masses have an even gender split for attendance and altar serving. The later morning Daily Masses have about two thirds women. The youth group is about half male. The office staff is usually female. Our choir is about two thirds women and the choir director is a man.

If the altar servers are somewhat evenly mixed as are the EMHC’s.

What is more important, I believe, is the predominance of elderly parishioners and that 100% of the transitional deacons are ethnic minorities.

Of course this is just in my area.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
I think this can be said of many Christian churches, not just the Catholic ones. The question, then, is “how do we get men to carry their weight?” This is a weighty question. And certainly, having female deaconesses as a recognized role, even if it’s not an ordained one, might send a message to men that “unless you want to be a priest, the Church doesn’t really need anything extra from you, the women are doing enough. Just show up to Mass and contribute to the collection.”

Now some posters here may very well think women should “just go home”, and let the Church crumble enough so that men have no choice but to step in. Somehow like some people think the best way to save a particular political party, is to let it crumble.

But, there’s a difference between thinking women should stop the work they’re doing for the Church now, and thinking “If the Church makes deaconesses a thing, that’ll give men even LESS of a reason to step up”.
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I am concerned about the feminization of the altar area. Females already serve and in many parishes they serve in larger numbers than males. Many lectors are women, and many women help prepare the altar for Mass, etc. The only regular presence of a male is during Mass. People can argue this all they want, but men’s eyes do work and if they sense the Church has become a place mainly for women, they will not bother. Of course, they are wrong to do that, yet we must deal with reality.

In a recent study, it was demonstrated that 80% of Priests were altar servers, yet today we see many parishes with 50% or higher numbers of female altar servers.

onepeterfive.com/altar-girls-altar-boys-and-the-priesthood-connecting-the-dots/

Also, consider this:

Why Aren’t Other Dioceses Looking to Lincoln

liturgyguy.com/2016/04/30/why-arent-other-dioceses-looking-to-lincoln/
I have said for years that the Church (and our culture) is experiencing a crisis with their men. It needs to be fixed if we are to be healthy again.
 
Would they be “deaconesses” od “deaconettes” ?
Hmmmm…sounds like a group from the Fifties.
 
Deaconesses in the early church were primarily used for clothing a newly baptized Christian. Is pope Francis going back to baptism in the nude? This isn’t the first century anymore.
 
I agree! Women have roles in the church community and if their presence is what is driving men away from wanting to help out, well then maybe those men weren’t in it for the right reasons.
 
jediliz said:
Deaconesses in the early church were primarily used for clothing a newly baptized Christian. Is pope Francis going back to baptism in the nude? This isn’t the first century anymore.
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Or even full-body immersion at all? That would require a lot of architectural revision at most churches, ISTM.
 
Hopefully this isn’t just Francis giving lip service but the first step towards women in the diaconate and priesthood.
 
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