1
1neophyte
Guest
Sarcasm? Or did you cut Romans out of your bible?No, no, no! This must not be permitted.
It is unscriptural.It is not the will of God!
Francis to create commission to study female deacons in Catholic church
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J
JoyToTheWhirled
Guest
My Anglican friends are crowing already that this is indeed the first step to women priests. Which strikes me as a bit premature.
P
pianistclare
Guest
LOL. that’s right. I always say: Behind every successful priest is an army of women doing the heavy lifting. 
J
JurisPrudens
Guest
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
Actually I get a lot of my news feeds on Facebook, and what I like about that is being able to read comments after the actual story. I first saw the news this morning on Religious News Service, then on Fr Jim Martin’s site, and then NCR and the NYTimes. And of course from there the sharing rather exploded.
People are quite excited about this possibility. I know this is early days yet, but I can’t imaging that Pope Francis would have said anything publicly if he didn’t intend to follow through.
A
ARSpade
Guest
Yes, after all, our cousins in the Anglican and Episcopalian community did this and had no issues at all. Their growing numbers of believers is a sure sign they’re on the right path.
P
Padres1969
Guest
As is oft quoted here on other issues… membership numbers up or down are not indicative of being on the “right path.”
A
ARSpade
Guest
Let’s change that sentence around.
'Men have roles in the church community and if their presence is what is driving women away from wanting to help out, well then maybe those women weren’t in it for the right reasons."
Would anybody ever say that? No, it we had dropping numbers of women in church roles and in the pews we’d have hordes of committees and studies trying to figure out how to get them back.
Your argument is lousy, and undermines the critical need of men in the church. Studies have been done showing that if a Father goes to church, his kids do as well. If only the mother does, those kids typically leave the faith. Having men in the pews is far more important than your “Eh, if they’re not here on my term then to heck with them” attitude shows.
A
ARSpade
Guest
I disagree.
You shall know them by their fruits.
I think it’s a great metric. A bunch of people have recently used it when comparing the vocations in Lincoln versus LA.
J
JurisPrudens
Guest
Here is the **more accurate **report on what the Pope **actually **said at the meeting:
Pope says he will ask CDF about history of women deacons
catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/05/12/pope-says-he-will-ask-cdf-about-history-of-women-deacons/
Pope says he will ask CDF about history of women deacons
catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/05/12/pope-says-he-will-ask-cdf-about-history-of-women-deacons/
P
pianistclare
Guest
And a lucky woman she is.
These topics only serve to bring out the Francis bashers. .
It is an interesting question, but clearly many do not have knowledge of the early church, and the role of various people in it.
I’m unsubscribing.
I can’t tolerate the people who so readily bash the Pope for doing his job.
In the past, this would never have been tolerated. But we have more freedom now, and so people feel free to criticize the Church openly. It’s sad.
I pray for Pope Francis as I know you do.
Peace.
These topics only serve to bring out the Francis bashers. .
It is an interesting question, but clearly many do not have knowledge of the early church, and the role of various people in it.
I’m unsubscribing.
I can’t tolerate the people who so readily bash the Pope for doing his job.
In the past, this would never have been tolerated. But we have more freedom now, and so people feel free to criticize the Church openly. It’s sad.
I pray for Pope Francis as I know you do.
Peace.
D
DaveBj
Guest
There were then and are now other deaconly tasks that are more appropriately performed by women than by men.
A
ARSpade
Guest
I don’t see why Francis bashing is required anyway.
Here’s what he said:
Man basically said, “Well, here’s what I’ve heard, but I don’t know much about it. I’ll ask my guys who know what’s up.” (they just did a study not long ago anyway).
This is basically if you were asking the President about the current procurement status of the F-35 and everybody flips out when he says, “I’ve heard some negative stuff, but I’m not a procurement expert nor an expert on every little thing my government does so I’ll go ask DoD about it.”
Everybody expects the Pope to apparently know every little bit of Catholic theology on command like a walking Catholic Wikipedia. Honestly, I’d like it if Francis more often said, “Eh, I dunno, I’ll go ask the experts.”
V
vsedriver
Guest
too feminine? is that why the church is called ‘the Bride of Christ’? The church will not fade away no matter how many or how few men ‘step up’. In the Church women serve as well as men. Only the roles are different. There is no ‘competition’ between men and women in Christ’s church. All are called to serve.
T
Tarpeian
Guest
Celebrity?? He’s to humble to be a celebrity
D
DaveBj
Guest
Really? That surprises me.
A
alwayswill
Guest
But what did The Apostles teach and practice?
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
Pope Francis has firmly ruled out women becoming priests.
L
lmachine
Guest
Yeah, but women as deacons now would be a good first step, and subsequent popes could continue the progress.
C
Catholic_Opinion
Guest
jimmyakin.com/wp-content/uploads/popr-francis-teaching-300x195.jpgPope Francis has agreed to create a commission to study the possibility of women deacons.
Here are 12 things to know and share . . .
1) What has happened?
On Thursday, May 12, Pope Francis was meeting with a group of women religious who asked him about the possibility of creating a commission to study the possibility of women deacons, or deaconesses.
Edward Pentin reports:
Speaking to around 900 members of the International Union of Superiors General today, representing half a million religious sisters from 80 countries, the Pope was asked if he would establish “an official commission” to study the question of women deacons.
He replied: “I accept. It would be useful for the Church to clarify this question. I agree.”
2) Who would be on this commission, when would it meet, and when would we know its results?
At present, all of these are unknown.
The commission could be run under the auspices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF).
The International Theological Commission, which is an advisory body run by the CDF, could be tasked with studying the issue.
Alternately, a new commission run by the CDF could be created to study the question.
Or a special, independent commission could be created, though its results would be vetted by the CDF.
Since the pope has only just agreed to the proposal, no timetable has been announced.
The commission could begin meeting within a year, but it likely would be several years before its work would be finished.
Once it is finished, the resulting report(s) would be submitted to the CDF and/or the pope.
They might or might not then be released publicly.
3) Why doesn’t the Church presently ordain women to the diaconate?
The Church holds that:
Only a baptized man (Latin, vir) validly receives sacred ordination (CCC 1577).
Although the matter has been debated historically, the Church’s present understanding is that the diaconate belongs to the sacrament of holy orders:
Catholic doctrine teaches that the degrees of priestly participation (episcopate and presbyterate) and the degree of service (diaconate) are all three conferred by a sacramental act called “ordination,” that is, by the sacrament of Holy Orders (CCC 1554).
If the sacrament of holy orders can be validly received only by a baptized man and if the diaconate is a grade of holy orders then only a baptized man can be validly ordained a deacon.
Thus women could not be ordained to the diaconate, understood in its sacramental sense.
4) Are there other senses in which the term “deacon” can be used?
The Greek term for deacon is *diakonos. *Its basic meaning is “servant” or “minister,” and it can be used in a wide variety of senses.
Indeed, Jesus himself says the he came not to be served but to serve (diakonesai) in Matthew 20:28.
Similarly, Paul says he and Apollos are “servants” (diakonoi) in 1 Corinthians 3:5.
And all Christians are called to play this role, for “he who is greatest among you shall be your servant (diakonos)” (Matt. 23:11).
The term thus has a wide variety of meanings besides the one the Church understands as a grade of ordained ministry.
5) Were there female deacons—or deaconesses—in the early Church?
Yes. For example, St. Paul’s letter to the Romans was carried from Cenchreae (the port of Corinth, where Paul wrote it) to Rome by a deaconess named Phoebe. St. Paul writes:
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church at Cenchreae, that you may receive her in the Lord as befits the saints, and help her in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a helper of many and of myself as well (Rom. 16:1-2).
In later centuries, deaconesses performed a variety of roles, primarily in ministry to women.
6) How could there be female deacons if only a male can be validly ordained?
This would be possible if the term “deaconess” was being used in a different way than to refer to the diaconal grade of ordained ministry.
Thus the canons of the First Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) refer to deaconesses that have not been ordained:
And we mean by deaconesses such as have assumed the habit, but who, since they have no imposition of hands, are to be numbered only among the laity (canon 19).
In other words, these deaconesses were servants or ministers in the Church but did not exercise ordained ministry.
7) Does the Church teach infallibly that only men can be ordained?
At present, the Church teaches infallibly that:
[T]he Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful (John Paul II, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis)
This teaching is not regarded as being infallible due to a papal statement but because of the ordinary and universal exercise of the Magisterium (see here).
The Church thus infallibly teaches that that priestly ordination (i.e., ordination to the rank of priest or bishop) cannot be conferred on women, but this teaching has not been extended to diaconal ordination.
As we saw under (3), above, one can deduce that women cannot receive diaconal ordination from the fact that the Church teaches only a baptized man can be ordained and that the diaconate is a grade of holy orders, but the Church has not yet confirmed this inference as an infallible teaching.
8) Does that mean that the Church could one day revise this part of its teaching and allow women to be ordained to the diaconate?
That is, presumably, one of the questions the commission would be tasked with clarifying.
9) What might the commission recommend?
Assuming it issued a single report (as opposed to a set of reports reflecting the different positions of commission members), it might recommend a number of things, including:
Commissions are advisory bodies. The Magisterium may take or not take their recommendations.
Any change to the Church’s present teaching and practice in this area would, at a minimum, require the pope’s authorization, and it might well involve a broader consultation of the Magisterium, such as by a synod of bishops.
11) What is the best guide to current, orthodox Catholic thought on the subject on women and the diaconate?
In 2002 the International Theological Commission, one of the advisory bodies operated by the CDF, issued a report titled From the Diakonia of Christ to the Diakonia of the Apostles.
Although not a document of the Magisterium, it was approved for release by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and represents orthodox and learned Catholic opinion on the topic.
This document will likely serve as the starting point for the forthcoming commission on the question.
You can read it here.
12) What does the document say?
It has an extended section (IV. The Ministry of Deaconesses) dealing with the way deaconesses functioned in the early Church.
On the question of ordination, the document concludes by saying:
With regard to the ordination of women to the diaconate, it should be noted that two important indications emerge from what has been said up to this point:
Here are 12 things to know and share . . .
1) What has happened?
On Thursday, May 12, Pope Francis was meeting with a group of women religious who asked him about the possibility of creating a commission to study the possibility of women deacons, or deaconesses.
Edward Pentin reports:
Speaking to around 900 members of the International Union of Superiors General today, representing half a million religious sisters from 80 countries, the Pope was asked if he would establish “an official commission” to study the question of women deacons.
He replied: “I accept. It would be useful for the Church to clarify this question. I agree.”
2) Who would be on this commission, when would it meet, and when would we know its results?
At present, all of these are unknown.
The commission could be run under the auspices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF).
The International Theological Commission, which is an advisory body run by the CDF, could be tasked with studying the issue.
Alternately, a new commission run by the CDF could be created to study the question.
Or a special, independent commission could be created, though its results would be vetted by the CDF.
Since the pope has only just agreed to the proposal, no timetable has been announced.
The commission could begin meeting within a year, but it likely would be several years before its work would be finished.
Once it is finished, the resulting report(s) would be submitted to the CDF and/or the pope.
They might or might not then be released publicly.
3) Why doesn’t the Church presently ordain women to the diaconate?
The Church holds that:
Only a baptized man (Latin, vir) validly receives sacred ordination (CCC 1577).
Although the matter has been debated historically, the Church’s present understanding is that the diaconate belongs to the sacrament of holy orders:
Catholic doctrine teaches that the degrees of priestly participation (episcopate and presbyterate) and the degree of service (diaconate) are all three conferred by a sacramental act called “ordination,” that is, by the sacrament of Holy Orders (CCC 1554).
If the sacrament of holy orders can be validly received only by a baptized man and if the diaconate is a grade of holy orders then only a baptized man can be validly ordained a deacon.
Thus women could not be ordained to the diaconate, understood in its sacramental sense.
4) Are there other senses in which the term “deacon” can be used?
The Greek term for deacon is *diakonos. *Its basic meaning is “servant” or “minister,” and it can be used in a wide variety of senses.
Indeed, Jesus himself says the he came not to be served but to serve (diakonesai) in Matthew 20:28.
Similarly, Paul says he and Apollos are “servants” (diakonoi) in 1 Corinthians 3:5.
And all Christians are called to play this role, for “he who is greatest among you shall be your servant (diakonos)” (Matt. 23:11).
The term thus has a wide variety of meanings besides the one the Church understands as a grade of ordained ministry.
5) Were there female deacons—or deaconesses—in the early Church?
Yes. For example, St. Paul’s letter to the Romans was carried from Cenchreae (the port of Corinth, where Paul wrote it) to Rome by a deaconess named Phoebe. St. Paul writes:
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church at Cenchreae, that you may receive her in the Lord as befits the saints, and help her in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a helper of many and of myself as well (Rom. 16:1-2).
In later centuries, deaconesses performed a variety of roles, primarily in ministry to women.
6) How could there be female deacons if only a male can be validly ordained?
This would be possible if the term “deaconess” was being used in a different way than to refer to the diaconal grade of ordained ministry.
Thus the canons of the First Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) refer to deaconesses that have not been ordained:
And we mean by deaconesses such as have assumed the habit, but who, since they have no imposition of hands, are to be numbered only among the laity (canon 19).
In other words, these deaconesses were servants or ministers in the Church but did not exercise ordained ministry.
7) Does the Church teach infallibly that only men can be ordained?
At present, the Church teaches infallibly that:
[T]he Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful (John Paul II, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis)
This teaching is not regarded as being infallible due to a papal statement but because of the ordinary and universal exercise of the Magisterium (see here).
The Church thus infallibly teaches that that priestly ordination (i.e., ordination to the rank of priest or bishop) cannot be conferred on women, but this teaching has not been extended to diaconal ordination.
As we saw under (3), above, one can deduce that women cannot receive diaconal ordination from the fact that the Church teaches only a baptized man can be ordained and that the diaconate is a grade of holy orders, but the Church has not yet confirmed this inference as an infallible teaching.
8) Does that mean that the Church could one day revise this part of its teaching and allow women to be ordained to the diaconate?
That is, presumably, one of the questions the commission would be tasked with clarifying.
9) What might the commission recommend?
Assuming it issued a single report (as opposed to a set of reports reflecting the different positions of commission members), it might recommend a number of things, including:
- No change to present teaching and discipline
- Ordination of women to the diaconal grade of holy orders
- Reintroduction of non-ordained deaconesses
- Further study of the question
Commissions are advisory bodies. The Magisterium may take or not take their recommendations.
Any change to the Church’s present teaching and practice in this area would, at a minimum, require the pope’s authorization, and it might well involve a broader consultation of the Magisterium, such as by a synod of bishops.
11) What is the best guide to current, orthodox Catholic thought on the subject on women and the diaconate?
In 2002 the International Theological Commission, one of the advisory bodies operated by the CDF, issued a report titled From the Diakonia of Christ to the Diakonia of the Apostles.
Although not a document of the Magisterium, it was approved for release by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and represents orthodox and learned Catholic opinion on the topic.
This document will likely serve as the starting point for the forthcoming commission on the question.
You can read it here.
12) What does the document say?
It has an extended section (IV. The Ministry of Deaconesses) dealing with the way deaconesses functioned in the early Church.
On the question of ordination, the document concludes by saying:
With regard to the ordination of women to the diaconate, it should be noted that two important indications emerge from what has been said up to this point:
- The deaconesses mentioned in the tradition of the ancient Church—as evidenced by the rite of institution and the functions they exercised—were not purely and simply equivalent to the deacons;
- The unity of the sacrament of Holy Orders, in the clear distinction between the ministries of the bishop and the priests on the one hand and the diaconal ministry on the other, is strongly underlined by ecclesial tradition, especially in the teaching of the Magisterium.
The two points that it makes—that the ancient deaconesses “were not purely and simply equivalent to the deacons” and the support that tradition and the magisterium have given to the diaconal ministry as an element of holy orders—suggest that women could not be ordained to the diaconate. However, the matter was left to the future discernment of the Magisterium.
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