Free cell phones are now a civil right

[Scott_Lafrance]

They were smart enough to get rid of Rick Santorum.

They were stupid enough to continue voting in John Murtha.

 

[Publisher]

This doesn’t seem to be anything other than than the Lifeline service which long distance telecommunications companies have been funding, via the Universal Service Fund, for decades. The only difference is that in Pennsylvania, and some other states, instead of paying for a hard wired telephone and service, the program is now paying for a bare-bones cell phone. At a cost of $10/month, perhaps it is cheaper than the old-fashioned alternative?

No one, despite the derisive claim by a columnist for the NY Post, is calling the program a civil right. But it does seem to be a humane program.

Friend you speak my mind.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The Amish, Old Order Mennonites, Mennonites, Church of the Brethren, etc. all have a congregational form of church structure. No Bishops. No hierarchy at all.

The woman sounds like Old Order Mennonite - they dress the same as the Amish but are more (slightly) likely to embrace technology (like electricity in their barns). They also live in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania and unless you ask them, you really can’t tell what sect they belong to just by the way they dress. Many use buggies, etc.

But hey! Specific rules depend on the congregation so it’s nearly impossible to generalize about them as a group. Sounds like the “cell phone” controversy may be leading to another schism - which is how they resolve pretty much all their controversies. A group will break off from the church and start a new one down the road with it’s own set of standards.

It can get confusing at times…

I used to live in Lancaster County. I do know the difference.

Trader:

We have lots of Amish in NE Indiana, and they do have bishops, but they are not equivalent to a Catholic, Episcopal, or Lutheran bishop. They preside over a single congregation. Most sects would call them pastors.

You are correct.

Didn’t mean to derail the thread, but I can’t let people get away with untruths. Goes to the credibility of the poster.

 

[ManOnFire]

On one hand, after working at McDonald’s for five years with people who had money for fancy phones, cable television, and nice hairstyles for themselves and their families but not for money for gasoline to get to work or to pay their rent every month, I sometimes question how poor people really are.

The problem is that some immature and unjust people “find” money for luxuries, but are immature and unjust regarding duty or obligation to pay for necessities, such as gas and rent.

 

[didymus]

Are you advocating that we all live like the Amish? This is precisely their argument against technological innovation. I like the Amish, but I wouldn’t want to live like they do.

No, that’s not what I’m advocating.
But we should question what technology we need, how we use it & how it uses us.

So if you decide you need a cell phone, do you really need a “smart” phone? Or are you just tempted to get one cuz they’re cool and all your friends have one?

Will you turn into a jerk? I’ve seen friends & coworkers suddenly too busy talking on their bluetooth to interact with anyone physically present. Or, if you do engage them and their phone buzzes their start texting away. I just walk away when this happens.

Other posters have mentioned giving homeless or jobless people cells so they can find work which sounds like a good idea (though not a right) since employers probably expect to hear voicemail when they call.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The problem is that some immature and unjust people “find” money for luxuries, but are immature and unjust regarding duty or obligation to pay for necessities, such as gas and rent.

How do you fix that? The people that apply for minimum wage jobs here where I work ALL come in talking on their cell phones. The lobby reeks of stale cigarette smoke. Most of them have tattoos and braided hair. That’s all very expensive.

How can a jobless person afford all this?

I remember reading this last year in the

[NYTIMES

Nearly six in 10 Americans are now connected to the Internet wirelessly via a Wi-Fi connection, mobile broadband card or cellphone, compared to about half at this point last year, according to a report from Pew Internet.
Eric Risberg/Associated Press

51
Percentage of cellphone-owning English-speaking Hispanic adults in the United States who use the phone to browse the Internet.

33
Percentage of cell-owning white adults in the United States who use the phone to browse the Internet.

**African-Americans and Latinos continue to own and use advanced features of cellphones more than whites do, with 87 percent of each group owning a cellphone compared with 80 percent for whites. **

 

[SamH]

How do you fix that? The people that apply for minimum wage jobs here where I work ALL come in talking on their cell phones. The lobby reeks of stale cigarette smoke. Most of them have tattoos and braided hair. That’s all very expensive.

How can a jobless person afford all this?

Ever wonder where all that money goes for welfare?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Ever wonder where all that money goes for welfare?

Apparently not for rent

 

[umairaraza100]

well how could i feel it but thanks for sharing with us in this forum

 

[seekerz]

On one hand, after working at McDonald’s for five years with people who had money for fancy phones, cable television, and nice hairstyles for themselves and their families but not for money for gasoline to get to work or to pay their rent every month, I sometimes question how poor people really are. I hope that these phones are truly being given to those who need it and pray that God, through His followers, will help them get what they need to get on their feet.

Unless you are also familiar with how these people acquire what you think they spend money on, you might be making baseless assumptions. With the exception of cable TV, none of those goodies you mention necessitate much spending, if any. In the African-American community, many people can braid hair (either for less money than salons or for free for friends or relatives) and almost anyone can get a pricey cell phone cheaply by signing up for a specified service plan (most often as part of a family plan).

I just really see few substantial arguments against providing the poor with free cell phones except that some people seem to think the poor shouldn’t have the same things as everyone else. How much do we have that we haven’t fully earned? How much was handed down or shared or gifted?

 

[purplesunshine]

Unless you are also familiar with how these people acquire what you think they spend money on, you might be making baseless assumptions. With the exception of cable TV, none of those goodies you mention necessitate much spending, if any. In the African-American community, many people can braid hair (either for less money than salons or for free for friends or relatives) and almost anyone can get a pricey cell phone cheaply by signing up for a specified service plan (most often as part of a family plan).

I just really see few substantial arguments against providing the poor with free cell phones except that some people seem to think the poor shouldn’t have the same things as everyone else. How much do we have that we haven’t fully earned? How much was handed down or shared or gifted?

Exactly. And since a phone is a necessity for a job these days the cheapest way is bare bones cells. No one is advocating handing out ipods. And non-disabled people get off the program rapidly becase they get work. For others especally the homebound it can be a mental lifesaver.

 

[wabrams]

almost anyone can get a pricey cell phone cheaply by signing up for a specified service plan (most often as part of a family plan).

Then they have to pay for data services every month plus a minutes package, which can easily be very expensive.

 

[purplesunshine]

Then they have to pay for data services every month plus a minutes package, which can easily be very expensive.

It depends on your usage. Metro pcs has (previously) unlimited data, unlimited texts and 200 minute plans for $35 a month. I believe Boost and virgin mobile have similar deals. You do have to buy the phone though.

 

[February]

It seems as though not too many posters are familiar with people who actually have these phones.

Most low income people that I have encountered with one also have “regular” cell phones and simply use the free phones as backup (i.e. if bill is paid late on regular phone). I have known people to use a neighbor’s address to get two such phones. I have given the information to several of my clients to obtain a free phone, only to have them state that “it’s not good enough”. People don’t want to be limited by the number of minutes and/or want the latest phone.

I guess the moral of the story is that I’m sure that there are many grateful people out there who would appreciate a free phone as a “lifeline”, but I haven’t met too many.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Then they have to pay for data services every month plus a minutes package, which can easily be very expensive.

Why would a basic phone (incoming and outgoing calls) need a dataplan? Are we giving out free iPhones? Is that a “civil right”?

 

[wabrams]

Why would a basic phone (incoming and outgoing calls) need a dataplan? Are we giving out free iPhones? Is that a “civil right”?

My post was in response to anothers talking about ppl who buy their phones, not the gov’t sponsored plans.

 

[MtnDwellar]

It seems as though not too many posters are familiar with people who actually have these phones.

Most low income people that I have encountered with one also have “regular” cell phones and simply use the free phones as backup (i.e. if bill is paid late on regular phone). I have known people to use a neighbor’s address to get two such phones. I have given the information to several of my clients to obtain a free phone, only to have them state that “it’s not good enough”. People don’t want to be limited by the number of minutes and/or want the latest phone.

I guess the moral of the story is that I’m sure that there are many grateful people out there who would appreciate a free phone as a “lifeline”, but I haven’t met too many.

Okay. And this is a problem with government assistance. It is always abused.

The providers have stated that they receive $10.00/ month and $10.00 per handset from the Universal Service fund. If the phone is important, why can’t the worthy recpients pay their own $10.00?

 

[kslat]

Unless you are also familiar with how these people acquire what you think they spend money on, you might be making baseless assumptions. With the exception of cable TV, none of those goodies you mention necessitate much spending, if any. In the African-American community, many people can braid hair (either for less money than salons or for free for friends or relatives) and almost anyone can get a pricey cell phone cheaply by signing up for a specified service plan (most often as part of a family plan).

I just really see few substantial arguments against providing the poor with free cell phones except that some people seem to think the poor shouldn’t have the same things as everyone else. How much do we have that we haven’t fully earned? How much was handed down or shared or gifted?

I appreciate your response, but because my coworkers were [too] open about their finances, I know more than I would have liked to. I’m very careful about making assumptions and give people the benefit of the doubt. I agree that you can do many of these things without paying for them, but you can also pay a lot for the services (and materials for upkeep, etc.). As I said, I hope that the people who are receiving the phones truly need them. I have just learned through experience that many people abuse the system. This does not mean I don’t want to help people in need or that I don’t contribute. I just wonder whether too many people claim that something is a necessity when it’s really a frill.

I don’t think the poor should not have what everyone else has. However, no one is entitled, and not being privileged does not excuse you from doing work. While many poor people work very hard, and I recognize this, there are still many who expect to be rewarded for living a difficult life. Yes, I am very privileged, in relative terms, and I am grateful to God (first and foremost) and my parents every day. I don’t have the same struggles as the poor. (However, my parents are divorced and live very different lives. One of them is irresponsible with money and has always had a low income and needed a lot of financial help from me when I didn’t have much to give. I wasn’t totally unburdened.) This does not mean I did not work hard for my college degree or to get my job. I also know that I can’t afford cable television or an expensive phone, so I don’t have them. Rent, groceries, and bills for necessities come first. We should always give what aid we can to the ones who need it, but it’s important that people don’t expect things to be handed to them, for everyone’s sake. To expect something for nothing is stealing. But it’s a hard line to walk. I’m not saying not to provide necessities, just that we need to be careful and discern what truly are necessities. For more on this, read the rest of my previous post.

 

[odile53]

The poor are more than just public assistance recipients: I know of several elderly widows who are social security pension recipients who have these lifeline cell phones. You never can tell who might be the recipients of them, and for someone who’s worked all their lives only to see half their meager check go for necessary medical expenses, they’re a godsend. I’ve seen the phones, they’re very basic, nothing that would be considered fashionable in the hip-hop community. I suspect the fancy phones that one sees impoverished people carry aren’t phones they got on the lifeline program (which of course begs the question as to what they are spending their checks on.)

If you lived in New York City as long as I did, you’d know to read anything in the Post very carefully to extract anything valid. Their yellow journalism is a running joke in the city.