I would tend to think that those that say the sinner’s prayer…do not believe the prayer saves them but rather asking Christ to do so. I hope and pray that is the case for all of them.
Indeed, it is us that make it cheap when we say that sin has no consequences.
I would never say that; sin has consequences.
There were two other things nailed to the cross of Christ, other than Christ Himself. The Law, and Sin. If we become a part of Him, by grace through faith, we are no longer under The Law, nor condemnation. If this is true, then John is right in his letters about the Christian, sin, and our relationship to it.
There is so much I have to counter here… so little time.
Although there is yet again, a lot of terminology baggage, Yes, God’s Sanctifying Grace is a free gift.
There are some hard passages for this method of interpretation. Chief among these is from Hebrews. I’ll quote a large portion.
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:22-39 KJV)I agree. I tend to phrase it simply, unmerited favor.
Wow, no. We still have a will. We decide whether to yield to the Spirit or not.
I don’t quite know what you are asking… you mean like if I lie? That lie is covered and forgiven by Christ’s sacrifice, but I will still reap the consequences of that lie in this life and in the life to come. It doesn’t separate me from Jesus, as there is no condemnation in Christ.
My responsibility is to yield to the Spirit Who never leads us into sin. If I should slip and sin, again, that is not enough to separate me from Jesus. My accountability is that I reap what I sow both here and upon death… plus I have to live with the knowledge that every sin I commit is placed on Jesus on the cross.
All law save the commandments of Jesus that including Loving God with all heart, soul, mind, and loving one another. Specifically we are no longer under law connected with the old covenant, that includes the ten commandments. The plus side of the new covenant is if we obey Jesus’ 2 commandments, we’ll automatically be in line with the spirit of the old.
The bolded above is in the letter to the Hebrews. The Hebrews had a valid covenant with God. Once they hear of the new covenant, and have heard the true gospel, there remains no sacrifice for sin. Before the gospel, their sacrifices were called for by God Himself, now they are of none effect. Jesus is the Truth, and once hearing of that Truth we are locked into a decision; either believe, or you are locked into sin with no recourse. You can’t go back to sacrificing in the temples, instead you have to live by faith.Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
St. Paul states that apostasy nullifies The effect of Christ’s sacrifice. You can be “truly regenerate” and fall from grace. He says, “ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.” He also says that “the just shall live by faith” (from Habakkuk 2:4), which does not mean that the just will necessarily exhibit faith, but that faith is necessary for the just to live. Thus, he continues, “if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.” There is no doubt that this passage concerns the truly regenerate because Paul explicitly states he is speaking about the man who is sanctified by the blood of the covenant (i.e. by the blood of Christ).
The usual objection is that, yes Paul is treating this issue as if it were a real possibility, but it’s actually still an impossibility. Say it is so. Presumably Paul is writing to real people (the Jews) about a real problem (judaizing and apostasy). If this passage is written off as an impossibility, then the letter ceases to be a true exhortation and becomes mere boasting over those wicked reprobates (which he elsewhere says “is excluded”). He says, “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” If this is a statement of absolute certitude that none of them could ever fall away, then his letter was pointless since his whole purpose is warning about the danger of apostasy. The more sensible interpretation is that this last verse is a statement of confidence similar to when you tell someone about to compete in a contest, “you’re going to win today.” It is a friendly encouragement even though losing is always a possibility.
I would clarify that the Old Covenant, while valid, was not salvific in itself. It only promised salvation because it pointed forward to Christ as a “shadow of good things to come.” St. Paul is clear in Galatians that salvation does not belong to the children of bondage, but the children of the promise. It is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
I would agree, but on the condition that we clearly see that indeed there are OT saints, in the sense that they too are saved by faith, and that if one could have totally and completely held to the works of the law and never sinned that that person would have a ticket into Heaven, and that no one could ever do that, hence our need for Jesus.
In the context of other scripture I could argue that those spoken of were never truly sheep, so to speak, but goats in the herd, again, if they leave they were never truly one of us. This is an issue I still study and pray about and claim no hard-and-fast answer.
That poor penitent thief on the cross, I guess there was no hope for him after all. And think of all of those poor infants, who having been baptized for the remission of sins, subsequently die without having ever performed a good work.
Thank you for that, it highlights the massive shortfalls that speaking in the way you quoted can bring sometimes.
If you have no opportunity to perform good works, they are obviously not required. No one has ever said deathbed conversions are invalid. Infants clearly have no opportunity to do good works. Even baptism is not strictly necessary for salvation if there is no opportunity, e.g. The Holy Innocents.
But then good works are not necessary for salvation, as you contended earlier. It would rather be necessary that those who are able to perform good works do them according to their ability (which is the behavior we would expect from one who has received and accepted the grace of repentance; to neglect to do these good works would be a rejection of such a grace, after all). I don’t think anybody would object to the latter idea. But the idea that good works are necessary for salvation is objectionable, because there are those who are said to be saved without having performed any good works.
Why are you applying sarcasm to his post and reading it in a sense obviously contrary to his intention. If you are going to correct him, at least do it with dignity.
This is a possible difference. Some Protestants believe that salvation is by works, only that man is unable to keep the law totally without fault due to Adam’s sin. Therefore, Christ came to keep the law perfectly in our stead, and his perfect law-keeping is “imputed” to our account. Catholic doctrine is that salvation has always been through grace because heaven (the beatific vision) is infinitely disproportionate to human nature and it cannot be merited by mere human acts apart from grace. We require God’s grace in order for our acts to be elevated beyond nature if they are to be in any sense meritorious. We believe that when Paul writes, “if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law” (Gal. 3:21), he does not mean this accidentally because of man’s inability to keep the law, but because natural human acts considered in themselves do not merit the kingdom of God.
What is your definition of sheep? Someone who has been redeemed by the blood of Christ? If so, this passage cannot be interpreted to be referring to someone who is not a sheep because it explicitly states the contrary. Thus the common assertion that Paul is speaking “hypothetically” about something that is not actually possible.
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1Tim 5:8
From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. Luke 12:48