Free Will an Illusion?

[celtspirit]

I think god does actually give us free will

god prompts us to do his will through the holy spirit

but its up to us if we want to act on the holy spirits inspirations

for example your walking along the street and you see a homeless man sitting on the ground asking people to put money in his hat

what is gods will in this situation? I think gods will is that we treat this man the way we would like to be treated in that homeless mans position ie put some money in his hat

that’s where our free will comes in

The holy spirit inspired us to help the man but the question is WILL we help the man?

 

[colemichael]

I once brought a book that declared that human self was and illusion. The books main premise was that if human reason could not prove, by human means, that the self didn’t exist, it didn’t exist.

Human reason and logic are severely limited. The book ended with the absurd idea that we might some day know why we have no self. This is absurd because if we don’t have a self, we won’t be able to know why we don’t have a self. The same goes for freewill. If we have no freewill, we are not responsible for any thing we do. Thus the justice system is a farce and Heaven and Hell are more absurd. We might as well try to get away with any we can and die; a very popular idea in these times

w

 

[Charlemagne_III]

I once brought a book that declared that human self was and illusion. The books main premise was that if human reason could not prove, by human means, that the self didn’t exist, it didn’t exist.

And we all know the person who wrote the book that you bought wanted himSELF to be paid for writing it.

 

[grannymh]

Why do internet atheists keep bringing up the Libet experiments when Libet himself said they were compatible with free will? Do internet atheists know more about studies than the author himself? It boggles my mind.

In science, volition may not mean free will as taught by the Catholic Church.

In general, neural system research methods and materials sections do not replicate free will as taught by the Catholic Church. Instead, the research attempts to locate volition or free will somewhere in the material brain via restricted stimuli. Thus, the “experience” of free will emerges from an anatomy encased in wires or a machine. Catholicism specifically teaches that rational thinking and rational choices are due to the spiritual soul, not to blood and guts.

 

[tonyrey]

I think god does actually give us free will

god prompts us to do his will through the holy spirit

but its up to us if we want to act on the holy spirits inspirations

for example your walking along the street and you see a homeless man sitting on the ground asking people to put money in his hat

what is gods will in this situation? I think gods will is that we treat this man the way we would like to be treated in that homeless mans position ie put some money in his hat

that’s where our free will comes in

The holy spirit inspired us to help the man but the question is WILL we help the man?

Some would make the excuse that they cannot choose to help him.

 

[HillsongUnited]

My question is why people would want free will to be an illusion. How sad life would be if that were true, and as a believer in our Lord Jesus Christ and his promises, I believe that it is not. We do have free will. I think we shouldn’t worry too much over these studies. We have free will. Period. No one is going to change my mind. If you guys are concerned about how to interpret these “tests” have a look at some articles regarding free will on Big Questions Online. They tackle these issues magnificently.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

My question is why people would want free will to be an illusion. How sad life would be if that were true, and as a believer in our Lord Jesus Christ and his promises, I believe that it is not.

Your question has baffled me also. I’m not sure people would want free will to be an illusion. I think that some people are resigned to fatalism. They assume that we are not any more free than any other object that is not free to make choices. But this is because they do not believe in the existence of the soul. Not believing in the soul almost necessitates the belief that all our actions are subject to the same deterministic laws of physics as any other physical entity. So they will staunchly defend the lack of free will in order to advance their materialistic notion of life.

I think what the materialists cannot seem to disprove is the conviction in most people that they are free to make choices most of the time. It’s difficult to prove that such a powerful conviction is merely an illusion. If it’s an illusion, it surely is a healthy illusion. The opposite of free will is fatalism, surely one of the sickest of convictions.

 

[oldcelt]

The onus is on you to produce evidence that the lump of tissue in the skull understands what it’s doing.

Do you usually regard thoughts as just electrical impulses?

Do you really believe you’re no more than a machine?

On thoughts, yes, they are electrical impulses that have been influenced by life experience.

I’m more that a machine, but with many qualities in common with machines.

 

[tonyrey]

On thoughts, yes, they are electrical impulses that have been influenced by life experience.

I’m more that a machine, but with many qualities in common with machines.

If thoughts are electrical impulses you need to explain why you are more than a machine. Are choices and decisions also electrical impulses?

 

[Jim_Baur]

Those that think free will is an illusion are delusional.

I am not trying to be rude. I really think that they are mistaken, seriously mistaken.

Or we are completely different kinds of people–myself and them.

I am free, but at times really weak. Some of the time, praise God, strong.

 

[Aloysium]

On thoughts, yes, they are electrical impulses that have been influenced by life experience.

I’m more that a machine, but with many qualities in common with machines.

I think if you took every computer, every cell phone, all the satellites, the entire Internet, you would still not have the complexity that one sees in the human nervous system; and, this is excluding the pulmonarycardiovascular, endocrinological and muskulosceletal which provide for the life and homeostasis of our organism and our ability to act in the world.
But then, I guess one could compare the earth to a rubber ball and have a point.

Even as great as is this complexity, I believe you would acknowledge that we are more than machines, more than what is physical.

 

[Jim_Baur]

I think if you took every computer, every cell phone, all the satellites, the entire Internet, you would still not have the complexity that one sees in the human nervous system; and, this is excluding the pulmonarycardiovascular, endocrinological and muskulosceletal which provide for the life and homeostasis of our organism and our ability to act in the world.
But then, I guess one could compare the earth to a rubber ball and have a point.

Even as great as is this complexity, I believe you would acknowledge that we are more than machines, more than what is physical.

AMEN!

 

[Michael19682]

If thoughts are electrical impulses you need to explain why you are more than a machine. Are choices and decisions also electrical impulses?

Yes they are in my opinion. They are neurochemical processes that culminate in an observable response. For me it’s not if we are more than a mere machine, but if we are more than an animal machine. All life is animal, we are simply the highest form of life. There is nothing inferior about that. All that “informs” us comes from God in a continual process of creation and yes, evolution of our personal spirit. John 1:1

 

[oldcelt]

I think if you took every computer, every cell phone, all the satellites, the entire Internet, you would still not have the complexity that one sees in the human nervous system; and, this is excluding the pulmonarycardiovascular, endocrinological and muskulosceletal which provide for the life and homeostasis of our organism and our ability to act in the world.
But then, I guess one could compare the earth to a rubber ball and have a point.

Even as great as is this complexity, I believe you would acknowledge that we are more than machines, more than what is physical.

That our species has evolved into the most complex (maybe) on this planet, proves nothing. Of course I believe that we are more than machines…I just said that there are similarities.

John

 

[oldcelt]

If thoughts are electrical impulses you need to explain why you are more than a machine. Are choices and decisions also electrical impulses?

As I said earlier…Yes, guided by life experience that is stored in our memory…or do you deny memory?

 

[Michael19682]

As I said earlier…Yes, guided by life experience that is stored in our memory…or do you deny memory?

How do deists say the basic division (between good and evil) is originally manifested? Do they remember it?

 

[oldcelt]

How do deists say the basic division (between good and evil) is originally manifested? Do they remember it?

It is a consequence of many things. No one is inherently evil, but some develop that way. Remember, evil is a human word and definition.
If you are asking if we believe in a Satan…No.

 

[Michael19682]

It is a consequence of many things. No one is inherently evil, but some develop that way. Remember, evil is a human word and definition.
If you are asking if we believe in a Satan…No.

All words are human, and defined by humans. I’m asking specifically if you will provide an answer, from where, (or should I ask) from whom does evil take its definition in Deism as against the definition of good? On what or whom is the basic division based?

 

[colemichael]

If we had no freewill, we wouldn’t be reading and pondering this stuff.

 

[tonyrey]

If thoughts are electrical impulses you need to explain why you are more than a machine. Are choices and decisions also electrical impulses?As I said earlier…Yes, guided by life experience that is stored in our memory…

Being guided wouldn’t affect the hypothesis that we are merely complex biological machines which function according to natural laws and are incapable of choosing what to think or how to live. All our mental activity would be the result of events beyond our control.

…or do you deny memory?

I don’t believe memories, reasons, emotions, values, principles, intuitions and decisions are adequately explained in terms of electrical impulses. :dts: