Free will in heaven?

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What is the Catholic position on free will in Heaven? If there is free will in Heaven, is there also sin and death in Heaven? Is there a difference between the type of free will in Heaven and the type on Earth? Do those in Heaven ever choose to sin and commit evil? Do they choose to hurt others?
 
What is the Catholic position on free will in Heaven? If there is free will in Heaven, is there also sin and death in Heaven? Is there a difference between the type of free will in Heaven and the type on Earth? Do those in Heaven ever choose to sin and commit evil? Do they choose to hurt others?
In heaven we’ll be with God. Completely. The “beatific vision.” In light of that, the questions you ask are (and don’t take this the wrong way) irrelevant.

Does that make sense?
 
After death, the will is firmly resolved in either evil or good, because of the consequence of the choices of the soul. If the soul has died in mortal sin, than it’s will is firmly resolved in evil; it has chosen evil over God, and so, it can only choose evil for the rest of eternity, and, because it can only choose evil, it chooses to reject God, who is Goodness Itself; hence, the soul goes to Hell, where it spends its eternity cursing God and being tormented in fire. If the soul has died in the state of grace or venial sin, than it’s will is firmly resolved in good; it has chosen God, and so, it is freed from evil choice for the rest of eternity, and, because it can now freely choose good - even more freely than it could on Earth, where the choice of evil was possible - it chooses to be with God, who is Goodness Itself; hence, the soul goes to Heaven, where it spends its eternity contemplating God and sharing in His life and happiness - of course, a stain of venial sin requires purification before entry into Heaven (yet nevertheless the soul is counted among the saved). The free-will of the damned and of the blessed is different in choice, too: The damned cannot choose to do whatever evil they want - they can only do that evil which they desire, which they died desiring to commit, or which they had on their soul, for example, if they died wanting to commit murder, they can try to influence the person they wish to harm (obession), and if they had on their soul the stain of the sin of adultery, they can try to go inside the body of the person which they wished to commit adultery with (possession) - but they cannot desire to do any new evil. The blessed, on the other hand, can do all the good they want: they can pray for whoever they want, obtain as many and any graces they want for others (in as far as they were vessels of graces on Earth), they can sing songs and learn new songs, etc. So the blessed do have free-will, pure free-will, and they are more free than the damned, who do also have free-will but who’s free-will is corrupted.
 
After death, the will is firmly resolved in either evil or good, because of the consequence of the choices of the soul. If the soul has died in mortal sin, than it’s will is firmly resolved in evil; it has chosen evil over God, and so, it can only choose evil for the rest of eternity, and, because it can only choose evil, it chooses to reject God, who is Goodness Itself; hence, the soul goes to Hell, where it spends its eternity cursing God and being tormented in fire. If the soul has died in the state of grace or venial sin, than it’s will is firmly resolved in good; it has chosen God, and so, it is freed from evil choice for the rest of eternity, and, because it can now freely choose good - even more freely than it could on Earth, where the choice of evil was possible - it chooses to be with God, who is Goodness Itself; hence, the soul goes to Heaven, where it spends its eternity contemplating God and sharing in His life and happiness - of course, a stain of venial sin requires purification before entry into Heaven (yet nevertheless the soul is counted among the saved). The free-will of the damned and of the blessed is different in choice, too: The damned cannot choose to do whatever evil they want - they can only do that evil which they desire, which they died desiring to commit, or which they had on their soul, for example, if they died wanting to commit murder, they can try to influence the person they wish to harm (obession), and if they had on their soul the stain of the sin of adultery, they can try to go inside the body of the person which they wished to commit adultery with (possession) - but they cannot desire to do any new evil. The blessed, on the other hand, can do all the good they want: they can pray for whoever they want, obtain as many and any graces they want for others (in as far as they were vessels of graces on Earth), they can sing songs and learn new songs, etc. So the blessed do have free-will, pure free-will, and they are more free than the damned, who do also have free-will but who’s free-will is corrupted.
Very interesting answer! 👍
 
After death, the will is firmly resolved in either evil or good, because of the consequence of the choices of the soul. If the soul has died in mortal sin, than it’s will is firmly resolved in evil; it has chosen evil over God, and so, it can only choose evil for the rest of eternity, and, because it can only choose evil, it chooses to reject God, who is Goodness Itself; hence, the soul goes to Hell, where it spends its eternity cursing God and being tormented in fire. If the soul has died in the state of grace or venial sin, than it’s will is firmly resolved in good; it has chosen God, and so, it is freed from evil choice for the rest of eternity, and, because it can now freely choose good - even more freely than it could on Earth, where the choice of evil was possible - it chooses to be with God, who is Goodness Itself; hence, the soul goes to Heaven, where it spends its eternity contemplating God and sharing in His life and happiness - of course, a stain of venial sin requires purification before entry into Heaven (yet nevertheless the soul is counted among the saved). The free-will of the damned and of the blessed is different in choice, too: The damned cannot choose to do whatever evil they want - they can only do that evil which they desire, which they died desiring to commit, or which they had on their soul, for example, if they died wanting to commit murder, they can try to influence the person they wish to harm (obession), and if they had on their soul the stain of the sin of adultery, they can try to go inside the body of the person which they wished to commit adultery with (possession) - but they cannot desire to do any new evil. The blessed, on the other hand, can do all the good they want: they can pray for whoever they want, obtain as many and any graces they want for others (in as far as they were vessels of graces on Earth), they can sing songs and learn new songs, etc. So the blessed do have free-will, pure free-will, and they are more free than the damned, who do also have free-will but who’s free-will is corrupted.
Why did God not give Adam and Eve pure free will? Then they wouldn’t have sinned, and not because they weren’t free, but because they were more free.
 
Who says God did not give Adam and Eve free will??
Nobody that I am aware of.

But if they had the type of pure free will discussed above, I do not see why they sinned. If there is a purer from of free will that those in Heaven have, I do not see why an all powerful, all loving God would have given a less pure version to Adam and Eve.
 
Nobody that I am aware of.

But if they had the type of pure free will discussed above, I do not see why they sinned. If there is a purer from of free will that those in Heaven have, I do not see why an all powerful, all loving God would have given a less pure version to Adam and Eve.
Sorry if I missed it, but where did anyone say Adam and Eve did not have free will?

My understanding is that it’s pretty essential to suppose they did have free will if we’re to give Genesis (and so, the rest of Scripture) any credibility.

Thanks
 
Pure free-will is only possible in the Beaitifc Vision. Adam and Eve could have sinned, and they did. The angels, too, could have sinned, and some of them did.
 
Pure free-will is only possible in the Beaitifc Vision. Adam and Eve could have sinned, and they did. The angels, too, could have sinned, and some of them did.
A question from a non-Catholic/Christian, what exactly is the Beaitic Vision. Please give a full definition and complete definition. What is your evidence that pure free will is only possible in the Beaitific Vision?

Why would an all powerful, all loving God not give Adam and Eve this Beaitic Vision? If it the only way they could have pure free will, why deny it?

Cme to think of it, if free will is not pure free will how is it free?
 
Sorry if I missed it, but where did anyone say Adam and Eve did not have free will?

My understanding is that it’s pretty essential to suppose they did have free will if we’re to give Genesis (and so, the rest of Scripture) any credibility.

Thanks
I do not see anyone saying they did not have free will, but that they did not have pure free will.

I now do not understand how there can be levels of free will. It seems binary. Will is either free or not. So maybe by denying “pure” free will, they are denying free will.
 
I’ve never heard of pure free will vs free will.

Can anyone who’s contributed to this thread clarify? Is there a difference?

I don’t think so.
 
A question from a non-Catholic/Christian, what exactly is the Beaitic Vision. Please give a full definition and complete definition. What is your evidence that pure free will is only possible in the Beaitific Vision?

Why would an all powerful, all loving God not give Adam and Eve this Beaitic Vision? If it the only way they could have pure free will, why deny it?

Cme to think of it, if free will is not pure free will how is it free?
Pure free will is only possible in the Beatific Vision because, when the soul has the Beatific Vision, it cannot sin. In other words, the soul has fallen so greatly in love with God that it can no longer offend Him, it falls anew with ecstasy for God at every moment, for God is All-Beautiful. The Beatific Vision is the vision of God, it is seeing God face-to-face. The soul can see God now, in this world, in as far as His Glory is reflected in the beauty of nature and His Holiness is reflected in the state of the soul, but in Heaven the soul sees God face-to-face. To help give you some understanding of the Beautific Vision, it is like a man who sees a woman of such beauty that she has captured his heart and he desires to love her - yet this is only a pale shadow compared to the Beauty of God. And since God is spiritual, His Beauty is beyond the imagination. We are used to physical beauty, but beauty is not only physical; there is also spiritual beauty, such as the beauty of love. So it can be found that God is All-Beautiful, Beauty Itself, and in Heaven, we will see Him face-to-face. (Sorry about so much redundancy!)

Adam and Eve, and the angels, did not have the Beautifc Vision because they first had to pass a trial. The angels were in Heaven, and Adam and Eve were in a paradise-garden. Both groups of creatures were tested, the former before the latter (because God created Heaven before Earth). The angels were given a test of obedience; if they passed, they’d get to see God; if not, they would lose Heaven. The angels had supernatural knowledge of God; they knew who He was, how important He was to them, and why He had created them. What test they had, I don’t know, but some of the angels failed the test and were thrown out of Heaven. Most of the angels, though, passed the test and they were allowed to see God. Adam and Eve were also a given a test of obedience; if they passed, they’d get the Beatific Vision; if not, they would lose immortality (in other words, they would die). Adam and Eve failed the test, and they lost the gift of immortality and were kicked out of the garden. Yet not all was lost; God promised to redeem them, which He did, by the death of Jesus Christ. The fallen angels, however, could not be redeemed, because their choices were irrevocable, given their great knowledge of God.

Free-will is the freedom to will good; free-will is a grace, a free and undeserving gift from God given to man for his greater good. God gave man free-will so he would choose God, so he would love God, because man was created in the Image and Likeness of God. But free-will can be abused, just like any grace can be; man can use his free-will to do evil. However, by uniting himself to God, man can become freer, that is, he begins to sin less; God gives him graces and his soul becomes pure, holy, and the holier a man is, the less he is able to sin, for the more he loves God, the less he is willing to offend God by doing evil. God desires to give men every grace, but we do not always want His gifts, so we do not always accept them, we throw away the gifts which we have received from Him. Hence, it is the more a man trusts in God, the more he prays to God, that the more graces a man receives from God. Mary, who was full of grace, is an example of this; she was so filled with God’s graces that she is the most holy creature in existence. She is so holy because she trusted completely in God, she gave herself entirely to God. Because God saw her absolute self-surrender to Himself, He gave her a singular grace which preserved her from Original Sin and from personal sin, so that she was completely sinless - absolutely holy - her whole life, conception to death. Because Mary was all-holy, a blazing mirror of God’s Holiness, some theologians speculate that she enjoyed the Beatific Vision. But no one knows for sure.
 
Pure free will is only possible in the Beatific Vision because, when the soul has the Beatific Vision, it cannot sin. In other words, the soul has fallen so greatly in love with God that it can no longer offend Him, it falls anew with ecstasy for God at every moment, for God is All-Beautiful. The Beatific Vision is the vision of God, it is seeing God face-to-face. The soul can see God now, in this world, in as far as His Glory is reflected in the beauty of nature and His Holiness is reflected in the state of the soul, but in Heaven the soul sees God face-to-face. To help give you some understanding of the Beautific Vision, it is like a man who sees a woman of such beauty that she has captured his heart and he desires to love her - yet this is only a pale shadow compared to the Beauty of God. And since God is spiritual, His Beauty is beyond the imagination. We are used to physical beauty, but beauty is not only physical; there is also spiritual beauty, such as the beauty of love. So it can be found that God is All-Beautiful, Beauty Itself, and in Heaven, we will see Him face-to-face. (Sorry about so much redundancy!)

Adam and Eve, and the angels, did not have the Beautifc Vision because they first had to pass a trial. The angels were in Heaven, and Adam and Eve were in a paradise-garden. Both groups of creatures were tested, the former before the latter (because God created Heaven before Earth). The angels were given a test of obedience; if they passed, they’d get to see God; if not, they would lose Heaven. The angels had supernatural knowledge of God; they knew who He was, how important He was to them, and why He had created them. What test they had, I don’t know, but some of the angels failed the test and were thrown out of Heaven. Most of the angels, though, passed the test and they were allowed to see God. Adam and Eve were also a given a test of obedience; if they passed, they’d get the Beatific Vision; if not, they would lose immortality (in other words, they would die). Adam and Eve failed the test, and they lost the gift of immortality and were kicked out of the garden. Yet not all was lost; God promised to redeem them, which He did, by the death of Jesus Christ. The fallen angels, however, could not be redeemed, because their choices were irrevocable, given their great knowledge of God.

Free-will is the freedom to will good; free-will is a grace, a free and undeserving gift from God given to man for his greater good. God gave man free-will so he would choose God, so he would love God, because man was created in the Image and Likeness of God. But free-will can be abused, just like any grace can be; man can use his free-will to do evil. However, by uniting himself to God, man can become freer, that is, he begins to sin less; God gives him graces and his soul becomes pure, holy, and the holier a man is, the less he is able to sin, for the more he loves God, the less he is willing to offend God by doing evil. God desires to give men every grace, but we do not always want His gifts, so we do not always accept them, we throw away the gifts which we have received from Him. Hence, it is the more a man trusts in God, the more he prays to God, that the more graces a man receives from God. Mary, who was full of grace, is an example of this; she was so filled with God’s graces that she is the most holy creature in existence. She is so holy because she trusted completely in God, she gave herself entirely to God. Because God saw her absolute self-surrender to Himself, He gave her a singular grace which preserved her from Original Sin and from personal sin, so that she was completely sinless - absolutely holy - her whole life, conception to death. Because Mary was all-holy, a blazing mirror of God’s Holiness, some theologians speculate that she enjoyed the Beatific Vision. But no one knows for sure.
I disagree. If we had the Beatific Vision we would not have “pure free will” because we would have no ability to reject God.

Read CCC para 1730ff. and 1993
 
I disagree. If we had the Beatific Vision we would not have “pure free will” because we would have no ability to reject God.
And we would no ability to reject God because we would choose Him for eternity. Hence, pure free-will: no ability to choose evil, which of course includes rejection of God. If you choose God, how can you reject Him?
 
And we would no ability to reject God because we would choose Him for eternity. Hence, pure free-will: no ability to choose evil, which of course includes rejection of God. If you choose God, how can you reject Him?
If we have no ability to choose evil, we have no free will.
 
If we have no ability to choose evil, we have no free will.
Free-will means being able to choose good, the freedom to will good. But it can be abused. If you go back and read my earlier posts, you’ll understand the grace of free-will better.
 
Free-will means being able to choose good, the freedom to will good. But it can be abused. If you go back and read my earlier posts, you’ll understand the grace of free-will better.
I agree but am wondering if you think what you said disagrees with what you quoted from me?
 
I’ve never heard of pure free will vs free will.

Can anyone who’s contributed to this thread clarify? Is there a difference?

I don’t think so.
I’m following it with interest. I’m curious too of this distinction.

Pure free will equals the will to only do God’s will.

(Human) free will equals the will to do both good and evil…I think…

So there is a difference.

I think that the answer to this question is that God did not originally give Adam and Eve a (human) free will. I think He gave them a pure free will. Later, by failing to trust God, Adam and Eve gave themselves their own (human) free will.

Now as to why God did not stop Adam and Eve from giving themselves their own (human) free will, I don’t know the answer to this…but I would like to hear some ideas as to why this happened the way it did.
 
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