Free will is an illusion because we are rational being

[Lucretius]

And what would you do in a situation that you have similar feeling for all options? You have to create the priority list of you options hence you are free from feeling but you are trapped by rationality. By the way, why we should exclude feeling in our life when they are very important aspect of our lives.

The idea is that emotion should follow from a rationally ordered will, and not the other way around. All Mr. Vico is saying is that the truth sets us free: I’m sure you understand and experienced the freedom that knowledge and truth imputes. Compare the freedom between a scholar reading Virgil and a high school student, who doesn’t even understand classical Latin, reading Virgil. Ignorance binds us.

St. Thomas defines the freedom of a rational being as dominus sui: Lord of oneself. Deliberation is thus an essential expression of that freedom, and through reflexion, we realize that we could have chosen differently.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[GEddie]

Lets forget about animal. How you could be rational and free at the same time? Rationality act like a constraint when the priority list is finalized.

But the will is constrained.. Full stop. Perfect freedom is a mirage, in will as much as in physical movement.

Rational mind enables our will not to be constrained by feelings (though it often is, anyhow).

ICXC NIKA

 

[Vico]

And what would you do in a situation that you have similar feeling for all options? You have to create the priority list of you options hence you are free from feeling but you are trapped by rationality. By the way, why we should exclude feeling in our life when they are very important aspect of our lives.

These are not related to our discussion.

No, because we have conscience which reveals the moral law.

 

[Lucretius]

…you are trapped by rationality.

Here’s another thought too: I’ve heard of people feeling enslaved to alcohol and drugs and pornography before, but I’ve never heard of someone feeling forced to act kindly and help the poor, etc.

That is, virtue doesn’t feel like a weight pulling us down. Vice does though.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[Bahman]

The idea is that emotion should follow from a rationally ordered will, and not the other way around.

The idea is that we always choose the top priority option, sometimes feeling is stronger than reason in an option and sometimes opposite.

All Mr. Vico is saying is that the truth sets us free: I’m sure you understand and experienced the freedom that knowledge and truth imputes.

All knowledge and experience does is to refine the priority options better. At the end we always chose the top option in the list priority options.

Compare the freedom between a scholar reading Virgil and a high school student, who doesn’t even understand classical Latin, reading Virgil. Ignorance binds us.

All knowledge does is to allow us to have a better chance to find a priority options.

St. Thomas defines the freedom of a rational being as dominus sui: Lord of oneself. Deliberation is thus an essential expression of that freedom, and through reflexion, we realize that we could have chosen differently.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

I don’t understand this. Could you please elaborate?

 

[Bahman]

Here’s another thought too: I’ve heard of people feeling enslaved to alcohol and drugs and pornography before, but I’ve never heard of someone feeling forced to act kindly and help the poor, etc.

That is, virtue doesn’t feel like a weight pulling us down. Vice does though.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

I have a thread on this topic. Here you can find the OP:

This problem was bothering me for a while. Here there is the argument: Our decisions are the result of the situations we are imposed to and our personalities. The situation define options which we have no control on it. Our personalities are partly the result of what we inherited and how our lives experiences shape our personalities which we have no control on them too. This means that we have no control on our decisions hence free will is an illusion, in another word we are slave.

 

[Lucretius]

The idea is that we always choose the top priority option, sometimes feeling is stronger than reason in an option and sometimes opposite.

Knowledge also “expands the list.”

Furthermore, often in our ignorance, options look equally rational, and so the will is free to choose between these particulars.

I don’t understand this. Could you please elaborate?

It means a person is intristically in control of himself.

Fire in the presence of paper will burn it, and a scanner in the presence of a barcode will scan it, but a builder in the presence of boards will not necessarily build them. Though non-human animals have differences from both, in this limited respect they seem to act like the fire or scanner (we don’t blame the mother bear for mauling a lost intruder, or wait to see if the shark will attack a seal we throw to it). So this leaves us with something to explain about human action.

thomism.wordpress.com/2014/08/08/notes-over-the-free-will-debate/

To put it clearly, there are many ways the will is free, some due to knowledge, some due to ignorance, and some.due to its very nature.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[Aloysium]

The idea is that we always choose the top priority option, sometimes feeling is stronger than reason in an option and sometimes opposite. All knowledge and experience does is to refine the priority options better. At the end we always chose the top option in the list priority options. All knowledge does is to allow us to have a better chance to find a priority options. . .

I am sure that my list of priorities differs from yours.

Reason helps us understand the world and how to attain what IWe want. Getting or failing to get what we want helps us understand more clearly what We desire and how to get it. God is the fulfillment of all our desires. Every other good will fall short. At the centre of our existence if we want to be happy, we must place God. God is Love and to be fulfilled we must love.

Free will encompasses the choices we make in pursuit of the truth. You create a priority list and try to follow it. My list being different, through our actions we become different people.

 

[Bahman]

I am sure that my list of priorities differs from yours.

Sure. Diversity is always good.

Reason helps us understand the world and how to attain what IWe want. Getting or failing to get what we want helps us understand more clearly what We desire and how to get it. God is the fulfillment of all our desires. Every other good will fall short. At the centre of our existence if we want to be happy, we must place God. God is Love and to be fulfilled we must love.

We don’t need God to be happy. We can have control on our feeling. It is matter of practice.

Free will encompasses the choices we make in pursuit of the truth. You create a priority list and try to follow it. My list being different, through our actions we become different people.

I like it this way, since free will does not exist:

We encompasses the choices we make in pursuit of the truth. You create a priority list and try to follow it. My list being different, through our actions we become different people.