Free will is fake

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JohnDaniels2 said:
Your saying that God sees us in the present. If this is so then we have free will. But God does not see us in the present
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Actually, he does. God sees us in Eternity, which by definition is unbounded present. He ONLY sees us in the present. But to him all our future and past moments are equally present to him.
 
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By God giving you free will, He chooses not to know what you will do.
 
That’s an absurd statement. Because by that logic, someone who commits a crime isn’t really guilty of anything
 
JohnDaniels2 said:
Your saying that God sees us in the present. If this is so then we have free will. But God does not see us in the present
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God doesn’t have a past or future, no before or after. Everything that is ever present is before God in his knowledge all at once.
 
Yes. In my example God knows the criminal will commit the crime yet does nothing to stop it. This gives the illusion of free will
 
How is it an illusion? The criminal has free will to commit the crime. He could have chosen with his free will not to commit the crime.
 
JohnDaniels2 said:
Not necessarily. Right now I am typing this reply. God knows what I am going to write before write it. What if now I decide that I want to write the word kangaroo. God knew I was going to do that. But say I stop writing kangaroo and decide to use my “free will” ro write some thing else. God knew that also. I am trapped in a cycle of predetermined fate
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The only one doing any “predetermination” is you. God knows that you will stop writing kangaroo to write something else. What part does “and God made me do it” come in?
 
We have free will. God knows what we will do. But He does not force us to do it.

Imagine you have a hungry dog, it is dinner time, and you put down his food bowl. You know he is going to walk over and eat it. You don’t force him in any way to act this way, but you know he will. He does it by his own free will. But you know what he will do. (With God, the difference is He has known for all eternity because He is all knowing)

Of course predestination exists. It’s biblical. Before God creates us, he knows where we will end up. We end up where we do because of our own choices. God knows what we will choose. But He does not force us to do it.

Take the example of Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. Jesus could have taken out a sword with Peter and fought His accusers or ran away. But He did not. The Father knew what He would chose, but He did not force Jesus to chose it.

Also, Mary obediently submitted to God’s plan for her to bear Christ. The Father and Jesus always knew that this would be so. But nonetheless, she had free will and could have said no. But they knew her heart and what she would do.

Free will easily coexists with God’s all knowing nature and predestination.
 
Freddy said:
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JohnDaniels2:
I recently heard that God knows our decisions before we make them. I understand that he is not “forcing” us to make it, but he knows everything I do before I do it. This makes free will a load of crap.
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@gorgias will be here shortly to disavow you of that proposal.
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If I don’t, @Freddy, won’t that disprove your notion that knowing “ahead of time” means that there is no free will? 🤣

@JohnDaniels2 – please check out the “Free Will? I don’t think so” thread in the philosophy forum. If there’s anything new or different you’d like to add, I’d be anxious to see it!
 
Gorgias said:
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Freddy:
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JohnDaniels2:
I recently heard that God knows our decisions before we make them. I understand that he is not “forcing” us to make it, but he knows everything I do before I do it. This makes free will a load of crap.
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@gorgias will be here shortly to disavow you of that proposal.
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If I don’t, @Freddy, won’t that disprove your notion that knowing “ahead of time” means that there is no free will? 🤣
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And as you did…? Hey, I think I’ve given up on trying to convince anyone about anything re free will.
 
JohnDaniels2 said:
I am trapped in a cycle of predetermined fate
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Be happy for that!!! Because it is God’s providence, and it is your Insurance Policy of heaven.

OUR FATE/ DESTINY IS NOT IN US, IT IS IN GOD, HE IS THE AUTHOR AND THE DIRECTOR OF THE MOVIE OF OUR LIFE.

For Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1) that the "Divine will or power is called fate."
But the Divine will or power is not in creatures, but in God. Therefore fate is not in creatures but in God.

The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

The same is true for events in our lives. Relative to us they often appear to be by chance.
But relative to God, who directs everything according to his divine plan, nothing occurs by chance.

Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)
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CCC 311 For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.177
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CCC 324 Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
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God would not throw anyone to hell for an act which He wills and causes us to commit.
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God bless
 
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JohnDaniels2 said:
I recently heard that God knows our decisions before we make them. I understand that he is not “forcing” us to make it, but he knows everything I do before I do it. This makes free will a load of manure
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Manure

So… did the puppet master craft those words of yours? 😉

Knowledge of Future Events is not a/the controller of Future Events.
 
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