Denial of grace amounts to destruction of free will. Free will can be destroyed even by natural means such as addiction. That’s essentially what vice is - enslavement of the will.
So I’m forced into this scheme…hmmm, that certainly doesn’t seem like a freely given gift.
Well if you want to look at it that way (and you are free to), it seems more like a freely offered gift that you are freely rejecting. (So you’re right: the giving of the gift is never completed.)
It’s not just refusing the gifts at the party, it’s having the freedom in choosing not go to the party…opting out completely and going to the pub for a pint.
I’m not sure what the point of your analogy is: you can go wherever you want, God still offers you the gift and you can still freely refuse it.
Why is it absurd? Is God not all powerful? Are you limiting the power of your all powerful God?
Of course (I’m) not, that (too) would be absurd. Sorry if you don’t like it, but this is again just by definition: contradictions are absurd. You cannot *exist *so as to make a choice while at the same time not existing. That’s a contradiciton and as such it’s absurd.
I don’t! My exact words:
“Their isolated existence is the result of their abuse of free will.”
- As I and others have observed, existence cannot be forced on a non-existent person.
- A non-existent person cannot be given a choice as to whether to exist or not.
- Judgment is not forced on you. Your own actions are your judge. What could be fairer than that? Do you really believe criminals and philanthropists should get the same results?
- Do you reject the concept of justice and the value of existence? If so why are you bothering to hang around?
You are perfectly free to decline existence because you believe this is the only existence we have! Nobody is stopping you from taking an overdose…
You are also free to decline both heaven and hell by denying that they exist - which is precisely what you do. So what are you moaning about?
If that were so, if man loses his free will when he loses grace, then why would God want sinners to repent? Anyone who is in under mortal sin has no grace in him, and yet such a man can still choose to repent, right? Repentance is an act of the will.
Can you please give an instance where man’s free will is lost or destroyed?
Of course, Zatzat, you must bear the consequences of what you decide on. For that is the price of being free: responsibility.You are perfectly free to decline existence because you believe this is the only existence we have! Nobody is stopping you from taking an overdose…
You are also free to decline both heaven and hell by denying that they exist - which is precisely what you do. So what are you moaning about?
You’re reading too much into what I said and into what the Church has said in rejecting total depravity. I’m not talking about the very specific doctrine that earthly man has no freedom whatsoever since the Fall. That is the specific doctrine that the Catholic Church rejects. She does not reject the notion that man can lose his freedom.
An addict has lost or destroyed a great deal of her freedom (which is not to say it can’t be regained). A reprobate loses his freedom permanently. Those in hell have no freedom to choose to love.