Free Will To Sin?

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OkeyDokei:
I apply my own understanding to each word i read, i apply my logic to each. I came up with the results based ont his.
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Well, here’s problem number one. Personal interpretation is one of the biggest downfalls of Protestantism. I recommend you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church to understand what we believe. Then read Scripture in light of it. It’ll make more sense.
I am begining to doubt based on personal experianecs, religious data of the coruption, the lies, the contradictions in the church and bible that many atheists argue. Some of them make so much sense to me i can’t help but think What if…
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Unfortunately, sinners are everywhere, including the Church. There are no contradictions in the Bible or in Church teaching regarding faith and morals. Start a thread on contradictions if you’d like.
What if christianity is wrong? Although i will probably go to hell for even thinking this
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If it’s wrong, it won’t matter anyway. But that’s besides the point. I think everyone has had moments of doubt at some point, but keep searching and you’ll find what you’re looking for. These forums should have the answer for whatever question you have. Just start a thread and watch the answers come.🙂
 
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Trelow:
Hey, if it’s wrong for me to be sorry for my sins, that it tears my heart to know that each stripe on Jesus’ back was because of me, then I don’t want to be right.

I’ve been there, and it’s all worng. The Truth is Jesus Christ, and is tought in it’s fullness by His Bride, the Catholic Church. You needn’t know my whole story, but the sooner you see this Truth, the easier your life will be.

If you were unable to be baptised before your death then you would have a baptisim of desire, if you were myrtered they a babtism of blood, if you were lazy? I don’t know, you’re going to have to take that up with Jesus. Better safe than firewood.

Heh, you can’t legalize your way out of it. If you sin knowing that you can be forgiven then you are tempting God. Not exactly the smartest thing to do.

How old are you? I’m hoping that you are young and foolish, we all go through that, we don’t have to, but for the most part we do., Wait untill you get knocked on your *** a few times, you will see.
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I consider myself at 23 young and foolish yes, but i have more knowledge about christ and his teachings than most christians i know.

You do know about other religion? Care to explain the basis of Hindu? Budhist? Islam? Forget it, google is too powerfull…Claims are made easily on a forum. I cannot asume the validity of wild statements like you have researched EVERY religion (thousands) and then chosen christ after you take a look at the evidence.

The fact is most christians “chose” christ because they grow up with it, not because they make an educated decisions. These kind of people anger me… I want to fully believe after i have attempted to be a lot less ignorant than i am right now of every other religious practice.
 
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Genesis315:
If it’s wrong, it won’t matter anyway. But that’s besides the point. I think everyone has had moments of doubt at some point, but keep searching and you’ll find what you’re looking for. These forums should have the answer for whatever question you have. Just start a thread and watch the answers come.🙂
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Please, indirectly citing Pascals Wager does not help your argument. Pascals Wager is one of my pet peves of our faith…

If we are wrong, we spent a life believing into something that is wrong, and if it is wrong we would have spent this life living under our potential…
 
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OkeyDokei:
I consider myself at 23 young and foolish yes, but i have more knowledge about christ and his teachings than most christians i know.

You do know about other religion? Care to explain the basis of Hindu? Budhist? Islam? Forget it, google is too powerfull…Claims are made easily on a forum. I cannot asume the validity of wild statements like you have researched EVERY religion (thousands) and then chosen christ after you take a look at the evidence.

The fact is most christians “chose” christ because they grow up with it, not because they make an educated decisions. These kind of people anger me… I want to fully believe after i have attempted to be a lot less ignorant than i am right now of every other religious practice.
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I’m 23 too. Here is the deal with other religions. They are gravely lacking in the Truth. All who are saved are saved through Christ. That being said, if someone is invincibly ignorant that the Catholic faith is true (this may be because they were raised that way), they may still be saved depending on how they follow the graces they are given and how they follow the law written on all our hearts (remember, mortal sin requires full knowledge and consent).
 
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OkeyDokei:
Please, indirectly citing Pascals Wager does not help your argument. Pascals Wager is one of my pet peves of our faith…

If we are wrong, we spent a life believing into something that is wrong, and if it is wrong we would have spent this life living under our potential…
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Hmmm I don’t know how my life could possibly get any better. I’m loving it. Finding the Truth has unlocked my potential more than I could have imagined before hand.
 
Exodus 20:13 "You shall not murder.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ "
Exodus 20:12 “Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.”
Exodus 21:15 "Anyone who attacks [c] his father or his mother must be put to death.
Exodus 21:16 "Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.
Exodus 21:17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.
Exodus 21:29 If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull must be stoned and the owner also must be put to death.
Exodus 22:18 "Do not allow a sorceress to live.
Exodus 31:14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people.
Exodus 31:15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD .Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:2 “Say to the Israelites: 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives [a] any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him.
Leviticus 20:3 I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name.
Leviticus 20:4 If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of his children to Molech and they fail to put him to death,
Leviticus 20:5 I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech.
Leviticus 20:15 " 'If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.
Leviticus 20:27 " ‘A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.’ "
Numbers 3:10 Appoint Aaron and his sons to serve as priests; anyone else who approaches the sanctuary must be put to death.”
Numbers 15:32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.
Judges 21:5 Then the Israelites asked, “Who from all the tribes of Israel has failed to assemble before the LORD ?” For they had taken a solemn oath that anyone who failed to assemble before the LORD at Mizpah should certainly be put to death.

If this is a contradiction or not i do not know… I know some of these are a bit out of context and irrelevant but the general concept as a whole still holds strong:

God tells us not to murder and then orders it…So it is okay to murder with god’s permission but not to out of our own decisions…

Hypocritical? Things like this, which im sure people will refute, and im sure i wont buy any of it unless it is something new. (considering i have been down this road many a tmie)

I want to believe…it is so hard

…
 
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Genesis315:
Hmmm I don’t know how my life could possibly get any better. I’m loving it.
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From a non religious perspective: It is a good thing for some people to have religion in their life. If it leaves them stable and gives them something to believe…If they need somethign to believe.

If they need something to worship it gives it to them, if fufills their holes and their ignorance.

This is OKAY…

Again, human nature…Security
 
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OkeyDokei:
From a non religious perspective: It is a good thing for some people to have religion in their life. If it leaves them stable and gives them something to believe…If they need somethign to believe.

If they need something to worship it gives it to them, if fufills their holes and their ignorance.

This is OKAY…

Again, human nature…Security
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Actually, no. I would live morally the exact same way, even if you told me God exists. We don’t believe in assurance of salvation, so the security you imply isn’t really there. I’m willing to wager I am more educated and less ignorant than you are on these subjects.
 
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OkeyDokei:
What do you define the difference between murder and killing?
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Well, there is the just war for example. Also, the death penalty. Likewise, self defense. All are killing, none are murder. All the above, the people are being killed as some sort of punishment, so it is not murder.

Atheism is the crutch by the way. It lets people think they will not be held accountable for their actions. It also appeals to the ego by saying humans are top dogs.
 
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Genesis315:
Actually, no. I would live morally the exact same way, even if you told me God exists. We don’t believe in assurance of salvation, so the security you imply isn’t really there. I’m willing to wager I am more educated and less ignorant than you are on these subjects.
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On christianity, yes…On the whole of every other religion on the planet, you know the other 77% of them… I would be willing to wager i have you there…
 
This is not an argument of knowledge and smarts…A discussion…Please do not compare us…

I want to learn, not fight or argue. Intellectuall debate however… 🙂
 
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OkeyDokei:
This is not an argument of knowledge and smarts…A discussion…Please do not compare us…
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My bad, but don’t tell me I believe what I believe due to ignorance.
 
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OkeyDokei:
I consider myself at 23 young and foolish yes, but i have more knowledge about christ and his teachings than most christians i know.

You do know about other religion? Care to explain the basis of Hindu? Budhist? Islam? Forget it, google is too powerfull…Claims are made easily on a forum. I cannot asume the validity of wild statements like you have researched EVERY religion (thousands) and then chosen christ after you take a look at the evidence.

The fact is most christians “chose” christ because they grow up with it, not because they make an educated decisions. These kind of people anger me… I want to fully believe after i have attempted to be a lot less ignorant than i am right now of every other religious practice.
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Wow, thought you were younger. Guess I just feel old for 25.

It doesnt’ matter if you know or not. I suggest praying for faith. It’s a gift, and you usuly don’t get it unless you ask for it. And yes I have dabbled enought in Buddhism and Gnosticism to drive someone crazy. Happy as can be that I’m out of that mess.

All the facts are out there. No other religion makes the claims and backs them up. But again it all comes down to faith. I’m only suggesting the easy way. Try readign some of the saints, or converts for other religions, including athism, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Don’t put too mcuh stock in your own ability to decern the Truth, the risk is not worth it.
 
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Genesis315:
My bad, but don’t tell me I believe what I believe due to ignorance.
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Do not get mad as i can tense you did. I did not mean to call you ignorant. I meant to play devil’s advocate and reply only to what an atheist might say…

I surely do not believe you are ignorant, but many christians i believe are.
 
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Genesis315:
Well, there is the just war for example. Also, the death penalty. Likewise, self defense. All are killing, none are murder. All the above, the people are being killed as some sort of punishment, so it is not murder.

Atheism is the crutch by the way. It lets people think they will not be held accountable for their actions. It also appeals to the ego by saying humans are top dogs.
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Killing and murder seem to be a personal morality issue difference. God does not clearly state the differnce between the two. The original translations from the Septuagint differ from “murder”…It is only a ruff translation… They could have easily chosen kill instead…Still…Thou shall not kill…

Most of my friends that are Atheist believe they are accountable for every action they perform, society holds them accountable. Wether it be jail, death sentence, denouncement, social outcast, personal regret or guilt…Your statement is false.

Humans top dogs? Explain?
 
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Trelow:
Wow, thought you were younger. Guess I just feel old for 25.

It doesnt’ matter if you know or not. I suggest praying for faith. It’s a gift, and you usuly don’t get it unless you ask for it. And yes I have dabbled enought in Buddhism and Gnosticism to drive someone crazy. Happy as can be that I’m out of that mess.

All the facts are out there. No other religion makes the claims and backs them up. But again it all comes down to faith. I’m only suggesting the easy way. Try readign some of the saints, or converts for other religions, including athism, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Don’t put too mcuh stock in your own ability to decern the Truth, the risk is not worth it.
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In my entire life, not one real prayer has been answered of mine…Never! Not asking my father to come home from Iraq or for these wars to end soon…Not asking for a better education, strength to my friends, sick family members, homeless, poor, nonthing! Please do not tell me to pray.

In my life the only thing i have seen that i can rely on IS my own ability to decern the truth…This is the only thing which has the ability to guide me correctly through choices and actions. My own logic has had the ability to keep me alive and healthy. Prayers have given me nothing.
 
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OkeyDokei:
Killing and murder seem to be a personal morality issue difference. God does not clearly state the differnce between the two. The original translations from the Septuagint differ from “murder”…It is only a ruff translation… They could have easily chosen kill instead…Still…Thou shall not kill…
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It’s a good think Christ founded the Church to help us figure out when it is acceptable. Read the Catechism.
Most of my friends that are Atheist believe they are accountable for every action they perform, society holds them accountable. Wether it be jail, death sentence, denouncement, social outcast, personal regret or guilt…Your statement is false.
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Well, eternally accountable then. Likewise, they don’t think they are accountable for every thing they do. Take one of the original issues of this thread, masturbation.
Humans top dogs? Explain?
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The ultimate being. The pinnacle of existence. There is no higher power except for powers they or society gives assent to (ie governement).
 
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Genesis315:
It’s a good think Christ founded the Church to help us figure out when it is acceptable. Read the Catechism.

Well, eternally accountable then. Likewise, they don’t think they are accountable for every thing they do. Take one of the original issues of this thread, masturbation.

The ultimate being. The pinnacle of existence. There is no higher power except for powers they or society gives assent to (ie governement).
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Masturbation? As a christian i do not think masturbation is wrong. To me, release in a sub-concious state…dreams knowing this will happen vs. release in a concious state are the same… either way you know the result is the same

If i must repent because i do so, then i will, but in my heart i do not believe this is wrong. If i doing so does not make me christian, so be it. If doing so sends me to hell, eternal damnation, so be it. I do not worsip a god with such foolish conclussions.

The ultimate being? I do not know of any atheist that would tell you that they are the ultimate being… Perhaps superior to animals because of scientific evidence of bigger potential for thought… But thats it…

I am very skepticle of read more books on this very same topic…The case for faith, the case for jesus, and a dozen others have weared me out…its the same material over and over again.
 
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