Free Will

[abinjoy]

How did Catholicism come to the conclusion that human beings are given free will?
Any one knows who formulated the free will theory in Catholicism?

 

[tonyrey]

How did Catholicism come to the conclusion that human beings are given free will?
Any one knows who formulated the free will theory in Catholicism?

Belief in free will is implicit in the teaching of Jesus that we are responsible for thoughts, actions and omissions.

Among the early Fathers of the Church, St. Augustine stands pre-eminent in his handling of this subject. He clearly teaches the freedom of the will against the Manichæeans, but insists against the Semipelagians on the necessity of grace, as a foundation of merit.

newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm

 

[rossum]

How did Catholicism come to the conclusion that human beings are given free will?
Any one knows who formulated the free will theory in Catholicism?

Philosophically, I am more interested in whether or not God has free will. Since He can perfectly foresee everything, then He can perfectly foresee His own actions. Given His own perfect foresight, can He be said to have free will? He will always know in advance whet He is going to do.

A human does not have perfect foresight, and may have at least the illusion of free will. God does not even have that wriggle room.

rossum

 

[RPRPsych]

How did Catholicism come to the conclusion that human beings are given free will?
Any one knows who formulated the free will theory in Catholicism?

It’s in the Bible. Sirach 15: 11-20.

The Reformers wanted that book out. I wonder why?

 

[LethalMouse]

What did Will do? Or is he innocent? Is this a peaceful protest or are we breaking him out?

Just joking.

But I will say this, perhaps they used their free will to determine free will as you use free will to post this thread???

 

[hicetnunc]

Philosophically, I am more interested in whether or not God has free will. Since He can perfectly foresee everything, then He can perfectly foresee His own actions. Given His own perfect foresight, can He be said to have free will? He will always know in advance whet He is going to do.

A human does not have perfect foresight, and may have at least the illusion of free will. God does not even have that wriggle room.

rossum

There are at least two responses here: first, there is a difference between foreknowledge and free will…they are not the same, nor are they mutually exclusive. Knowing that someone is going to do something–even infallibly knowing it–does not equate to forcing that person to do that thing. Knowing and willing, in other words, flow from two different faculties. St Augustine takes up this line of thinking, most notably in his On Free Choice of the Will, and Confessions (especially book 10).

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the question is somewhat anthropomorphic. God’s knowledge and will are not discursive in the way human knowledge and will are. God does not know and will in a temporal way. God, timeless and infinite, does not know in successive moments, as though what we’re about to do is not actualised for him. In human knowing and thinking, we are constantly moving from potency to act in our operations; God, however, possesses what he knows simultaneously so to speak. Furthermore, an important distinction to keep in mind is that in humans, knowing and will are not identical to our essence, whereas in God, his knowledge and will is his essence. Aquinas takes up this topic in the Summa Theological, 1a, questions 23 and 83 for example.

 

[dmar198]

Philosophically, I am more interested in whether or not God has free will. Since He can perfectly foresee everything, then He can perfectly foresee His own actions. Given His own perfect foresight, can He be said to have free will? He will always know in advance whet He is going to do.

A human does not have perfect foresight, and may have at least the illusion of free will. God does not even have that wriggle room.

rossum

I suppose that there is no “in advance” from God’s perspective, therefore He doesn’t know “in advance” what He is “going to” do. His actions and knowledge are simultaneous and eternal.

How did Catholicism come to the conclusion that human beings are given free will?
Any one knows who formulated the free will theory in Catholicism?

150 A.D. - St. Justin Martyr - “[It is not] by fate that men do what they do, or suffer what they suffer, but [rather] each man by free choice acts rightly or sins… [For] God in the beginning made the race of angels and men with free-will, [and] they will justly suffer in eternal fire the punishment of whatever sins they have committed. And this is the nature of all that is made, to be capable of vice and virtue. For neither would any of them be praiseworthy unless there were power to turn to both [virtue and vice].” (Second Apology Chapter 7) See also First Apology Chapter 43 and Dialog with Trypho Chapter 141.

170 A.D. - Tatian - “[E]ach of these two orders of creatures [men and angels] was made free to act as it pleased, not having the nature of good, which again is with God alone, but is brought to perfection in men through their freedom of choice… [T]he bad man [is] justly punished, having become depraved through his own fault, but the just man [is] deservedly praised…since [by] his free choice he refrained from transgressing the will of God.” (Address to the Greeks Chapter 7)

And: “[T]he power of the Logos…foresee future events, not as fated, but as taking place by the choice of free agents.” (ibid.)

177 A.D. - Athenagoras - “[M]en…have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice…for you would not either honour the good or punish the bad, unless vice and virtue were in their own power… o is it among the angels [also].” (Plea for the Christians Chapter 24)

180 A.D. - St. Irenaeus writes a chapter about free will that is titled: “Men are possessed of free will, and endowed with the faculty of making a choice. It is not true, therefore, that some are by nature good, and others bad.” (Against Heresies Book IV Chapter 37)

~195 A.D. - St. Clement of Alexandria - “[If] faith is not the rational assent of the soul exercising free-will, but an undefined beauty, belonging immediately to the creature—[then] the precepts both of the Old and of the New Testament are…superfluous.” (Stromata Book 5 Chapter 1)

And: “ince some are unbelieving, and some are disputatious, [therefore] all do not attain to the perfection of the good. For neither is it possible to attain it without the exercise of free choice; nor does the whole depend on our own purpose.” (ibid.)

And: “Wisdom which is God-given…rouses indeed our free-will, and admits faith, and repays the application of the elect with its crowning fellowship.” (Stromata Book 5 Chapter 13)

Church Fathers on Free Will
historyandapologetics.com/2015/02/church-fathers-on-free-will.html

List of Bible Passages About Free Will
historyandapologetics.com/2015/02/list-of-bible-passages-about-free-will.html

The doctrine of free will is one of those few doctrines of Christianity that can be confirmed by a simple word search on a Bible website. Both the terms “free will” and the contraction freewill appear in almost every major translation.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

As I have said on CAF many times before, Free Will in the Catholic Church is largely a theoretical concept; not so much in practice. Yes, one is free to do pretty much whatever one darn well pleases but the consequences of such action (i.e., damnation of the soul) are so great that Free Will becomes moot. It is either “conform or die.”

 

[dmar198]

As I have said on CAF many times before, Free Will in the Catholic Church is largely a theoretical concept; not so much in practice. Yes, one is free to do pretty much whatever one darn well pleases but the consequences of such action (i.e., damnation of the soul) are so great that Free Will becomes moot. It is either “conform or die.”

I think I might be misunderstanding you. Do you mean that free will has such large consequences that it doesn’t matter? If it had No consequences, would that make it matter More? It is a strange paradox, if so – but I think I am misunderstanding you. Please clarify, if you don’t mind.

 

[E_7]

How did Catholicism come to the conclusion that human beings are given free will?
Any one knows who formulated the free will theory in Catholicism?

It is not a theory and it isn’t Catholicism nor Christianity that "formulated " it. It was God who made it, and through logic and reason, Natural Law and Philosophy of Man , we know we have free will.

 

[Usagi]

As I have said on CAF many times before, Free Will in the Catholic Church is largely a theoretical concept; not so much in practice. Yes, one is free to do pretty much whatever one darn well pleases but the consequences of such action (i.e., damnation of the soul) are so great that Free Will becomes moot. It is either “conform or die.”

“Free will” is the property of being able to choose between alternative behaviors. It means your choices are made by you and not by a force outside you.

That some choices have consequences that make them a bad idea is a different issue. We have the freedom to choose evil acts, as shown by the fact that evil acts are performed. That those committing such acts may face punishment for them (from the state or from God or both) does not negate that they were able to commit them.

 

[seagal]

How did Catholicism come to the conclusion that human beings are given free will?
Any one knows who formulated the free will theory in Catholicism?

I think that’s an innate concept in all human beings. Infants have to come to the understanding that not everything is part of themselves.

 

[seagal]

Philosophically, I am more interested in whether or not God has free will. Since He can perfectly foresee everything, then He can perfectly foresee His own actions. Given His own perfect foresight, can He be said to have free will? He will always know in advance whet He is going to do.

A human does not have perfect foresight, and may have at least the illusion of free will. God does not even have that wriggle room.

rossum

You’re assuming that God would not have the free will to change his mind. However, having perfect foresight means that he perfectly knows every conceivable outcome of every conceivable action, and therefore he doesn’t need to change his mind. Or at least that’s how I understand it. Philosophically and theologically we can only offer our best guess as to how it all works. All we can be sure of is that it does indeed work.

 

[tonyrey]

Philosophically, I am more interested in whether or not God has free will. Since He can perfectly foresee everything, then He can perfectly foresee His own actions. Given His own perfect foresight, can He be said to have free will? He will always know in advance whet He is going to do.

A human does not have perfect foresight, and may have at least the illusion of free will. God does not even have that wriggle room.

rossum

Foresight doesn’t imply causation.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

I think I might be misunderstanding you. Do you mean that free will has such large consequences that it doesn’t matter? If it had No consequences, would that make it matter More? It is a strange paradox, if so – but I think I am misunderstanding you. Please clarify, if you don’t mind.

“Free will” is the property of being able to choose between alternative behaviors. It means your choices are made by you and not by a force outside you.

That some choices have consequences that make them a bad idea is a different issue. We have the freedom to choose evil acts, as shown by the fact that evil acts are performed. That those committing such acts may face punishment for them (from the state or from God or both) does not negate that they were able to commit them.

I guess then that just have a different definition of “Free Will” than everyone else.

 

[dmar198]

I guess then that just have a different definition of “Free Will” than everyone else.

What is your definition?

 

[Lost_Sheep]

What is your definition?

I can do whatever I want.

 

[John_Martin]

I can do whatever I want.

Actually, he will do whatever he wants, up until the point where he wants something else more, at which point he will do or obtain that thing which he now wants.

There will be no choice for him about doing - if he desires it, If easy to obtain, he will have it quickly; if difficult, he will do what it takes; if too difficult, he will abandon the desire and no longer want it, therefore no longer do it.

Once desired, there is no choice; the die is cast, he WILL do it, not merely CAN do it…

 

[tonyrey]

Actually, he will do whatever he wants, up until the point where he wants something else more, at which point he will do or obtain that thing which he now wants.

There will be no choice for him about doing - if he desires it, If easy to obtain, he will have it quickly; if difficult, he will do what it takes; if too difficult, he will abandon the desire and no longer want it, therefore no longer do it.

Once desired, there is no choice; the die is cast, he WILL do it, not merely CAN do it…

I think we need to explain how free will differs from desire which implies a physical urge…

 

[Aloysium]

I think we need to explain how free will differs from desire which implies a physical urge…

:twocents:

A common experience of those who give of themselves in places such as Haiti, is how humbling it is to see people truly happy when they have nothing. We who find ourselves on the other side of the curtain that separates the realities of our lives, don’t really need any of the excess. But we can so easily follow our physical desires for pleasure, our socially oriented cravings for power and control, fame and honour, and vain pursuits for money and things, none of which can fulfill what lies at the root of our desires and needs, God Himself. In our lack of faith and trust, seeking the transient and the illusory, we grab at things of the world, essentially worshipping them, in false hope that they will grant us happiness.

We have available to us all the fruits that come with existence. We are free to enjoy life’s gifts in our Garden centred on the wood that reveals the nature of evil and good and which grants us eternal life - the cross. What this means is that as long as what we do is directed towards love, a giving of what has been given, we remain free, spiritually unattached to the world, in which all ends in death. Free will is more than doing what we want or choosing among various likes and dislikes. It involves a choice in our life-long relationship with God. Do we approach Him, and because He is our Creator, our true selves increasing our capacity to act and create, or do we move away, into the darkenss, controlled by forces both internal and external, away from life? We repeat the primal scene in Eden with every true choice. Every time we appropriate for ourselves what is God’s whether it is truth, morality, or any other way in which the focus of our worship is oneself, we grow further from Him, He who is the Source and reality of joy, happiness, peace.

Our desire is ultimately for God. We choose what we will follow, who or what will ultimately be our master. There can never be enough pleasure to do away with pain. No amount of fame, no number of statutes erected in our honour will make us somebody, someone existing through God’s love. The tangible reveals its unreality in the face of intangible happiness. Do we choose our one life to be destined for unhappiness or fulfillment? Our free will determines who we make ourselves out of all we have been given by God. We decide in our own way, within our relationship with God, whether we follow the will of our Heavenly Father or of what constitutes the world.