Freemasonry A Evil Group

[DallasTexas]

KyivAndrew,

Thank you for your post.

well I guess it’s just a faithful Catholic’s responsibility to keep on responding on a Catholic Forum of all places.

God Bless All!

I think it’s great that you’re doing this. You have every right to make your opinions known! Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

I compliment you on your stamina.

Voltaire (a freemason) said something to the affect of “I might not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it.”

Thank you again.

 

[aileron]

Freemason’s evil? If so, it funny that they they run the largest philanthropy in the world, the Shriner’s Hospital system in the USA. They help kids with all manners of diseases and maladies, and with rare exception (maybe without exception) don’t charge for treatments.

 

[DallasTexas]

Heck, might as well finish with the Royal Arch Ritual so nobody thinks it’s just useless info.:
In the Holy (Holy!?) Royal Arch:

“They (initiates) rise and give signs, from the Entered Apprentice up to this Degree, after which they join in squads of three for giving the Grand Omnific Royal Arch Word, as follows:…As we three did agree, in peace, love, and unity, the Sacred Word to search; until we three, or three such as we, shall agree to close this Royal Arch. They then balance three times three, bringing the right hand with some violence down upon the left. The right hands are then raised above their heads, and the words, Jah-buh-lun-Je-ho-vah, G-o-d, are given at low breath, each companion pronouncing the syllables or letters alternately.”

Each member exalted into Holy Royal Arch is only allowed to pronounce one syllable of the Grand Omnific Word at a time. They are not allowed to say the entire name Jahbulon. Again, as I’ve stated before, I know this from personal experience knowing a family member high-up in Freemasonry who froze like a five-year old when I asked him to pronounce Jahbulon. A grown man, lips shut tight. This isn’t childish hocus-pocus, it’s capital “B” Blasphemy against Christ for those who actually still worry about things like this.

The Freemasonic penalty for saying Jahbulon out loud or “divulging any of the secrets of this degree unlawfully”:

“I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him for the same, whether he be right or wrong…To all of this which I do most solemnly swear…; binding myself under no less penalty, than to have my skull smote off, and my brains exposed to the scorching rays of the Meridian sun, should I knowingly or willfully violate or transgress any part of this solemn oath or obligation of a Royal Arch Mason. So help me God”

Now this is blasphemy pure and simple. In binding God in an oath to torture - blasphemy. If for fun the oath - blasphemy for using God’s name for a joke. It’s a catch 22. And it does not matter one bit as one poster put it to LOL in taking these bloody oaths, the fact remains they work as I’ve seen personally in discussing this with Masons inside and outside of my family to put the fear of God in them, not because they literally think they’ll lose their heads, but because they are bound by their Companions and scared. Using the Bible for any such oaths is a Sin (and I know many here posters don’t care about sin). No Christian, however, in his right mind should take that oath. I cannot see how either the false name for God Jahbulon or the oath is not blasphemy and for one to argue counter, one must really be quite anti-Christian I believe or confused.

May God Bless All!

KyivAndrew,

Thank you again for your post.

I believe the oaths to be one of the most misunderstood parts of Freemasonry. I am not a Royal Arch mason and therefore are not familiar with the oaths of the degrees. I can only speak to Blue Lodge oaths.

I have heard all kinds of far-out comments about how terrible the oaths are in the blue lodge. What a mason, or soon to be mason, states with the oaths is that he would rather have _______ happen to him than ever reveal the secrets of a _____ mason. He then asks for God’s help in carrying out this promise.

In no way is he asking God to strike him dead if he doesn’t keep the oath.

Thank you again for your post.

 

[KyivAndrew]

I think it’s great that you’re doing this. You have every right to make your opinions known! Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

Dallas, NOBODY is telling me otherwise. In all honesty, I’d rather follow a thread on Catholicism and Christ instead of this one but you seem absolutely hoodwinked into arguing for grave sin on a Catholic Forum and I don’t like when somebody throws innumerable posts arguing against the Holy See’s definition of grave sin, especially since younger people may read it.

You’ve said you’re Scottish rite 32nd degree. According to Henry C. Clausen, Clausen’s Commentaries on Morals and Dogma (The Supreme Council, 33d Degree, Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Southern Jurisdiction of the U.S.A., 1976), pp.157-58, Clausen argues of your degree’s initiation:

"As we progress toward the end of this Degree and seek seriously the Royal Secret which is concealed like the occult science of the ancients, we remember, ‘Faith begins where reason sinks exhausted’. Magic, after all, is but the absolute science of nature and its laws…You will seek the Holy Doctrine - the Blazing Star of Truth, the Royal Secret - of creation…Some modern scientists concede that in the search for enlightenment, recourse must be made to the mystic…Telepathy and esoteric psychology can work within us and release energy, insight and imagination…The Holy Doctrine - The Royal Secret - heretofore has been concealed… But the veil now has been lifted for you…The Scottish Rite symbology and teachings and studies have made the creative laws of the universe susceptible of discovery…Nature’s secrets are those of the supernatural sciences…"

Telepathy? huh? I’ve already quoted an anti-Christian citation from your own state Texas’ Masonic Monitor which I do not believe you responded to. However, the above quote is certainly not Christian, and one does not have to learn by rote Masonic mysticism in order to have the “veil” lifted from one’s eyes. One joins the Catholic Church and follows Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who is not even mentioned in any Scottish rite prayers or any degree.

I know by now that nothing I or anyone else posts will dissuade you from the ritualistic stew of the Brotherhood. You are merely sowing confusion, and by the amount of posts you post defending Freemasonry as opposed to the Church, it is very easy to tell what comes first to you. I’m convinced you will keep up the defense of Freemasonry and Grave Sin to your last breath. If not even the Holy See can make you see the light, no poster will. I’m not posting for your benefit because you are set in your ways and illustrate by your stubborn defense just what kind of mystic hold Masonic “light” can have on a true believer.

I’m sure I’ll receive the standard response from you that “I disagree with that publication or whatever” and that we misunderstand Freemasonry but you are doing a heck of a job distancing yourself from official publications of your Brotherhood on here. I guess just about everything printed on Freemasonry by highly-respected Masons must be disowned by you once its anti-Christian message comes out. Good luck on that one.

 

[DallasTexas]

well I guess it’s just a faithful Catholic’s responsibility to keep on responding on a Catholic Forum of all places.

God Bless All!

KyivAndrew,

Thank you for your post.

I think it’s great that you’re doing this. You have every right to make your opinions known! Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

I compliment you on your stamina.

Voltaire (a freemason) said something to the affect of “I might not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it.”

Thank you again.

Dallas, NOBODY is telling me otherwise.

Kyiv,

Thank you for your post.

I was doing nothing more than agreeing with you and giving a compliment.

Peace be with you.

 

[DallasTexas]

In all honesty, I’d rather follow a thread on Catholicism and Christ instead of this one but you seem absolutely hoodwinked into arguing for grave sin on a Catholic Forum and I don’t like when somebody throws innumerable posts arguing against the Holy See’s definition of grave sin, especially since younger people may read it.

If there were any great sin in what I was doing or what I was saying, I wouldn’t say it.

You’ve said you’re Scottish rite 32nd degree. According to Henry C. Clausen, Clausen’s Commentaries on Morals and Dogma (The Supreme Council, 33d Degree, Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Southern Jurisdiction of the U.S.A., 1976), pp.157-58, Clausen argues of your degree’s initiation:

"As we progress toward the end of this Degree and seek seriously the Royal Secret which is concealed like the occult science of the ancients, we remember, ‘Faith begins where reason sinks exhausted’. Magic, after all, is but the absolute science of nature and its laws…You will seek the Holy Doctrine - the Blazing Star of Truth, the Royal Secret - of creation…Some modern scientists concede that in the search for enlightenment, recourse must be made to the mystic…

I concede. I do not know if this is true or not. But then again I’m not a modern scientist.
KyivAndrew;5305387:

Telepathy and esoteric psychology can work within us and release energy, insight and imagination…The Holy Doctrine - The Royal Secret - heretofore has been concealed… But the veil now has been lifted for you…The Scottish Rite symbology and teachings and studies have made the creative laws of the universe susceptible of discovery…Nature’s secrets are those of the supernatural sciences…"

What’s missing in all the “…”?

Anti-masons love to quote Albert Pike when he was discussing the ancient Egyptians in saying “Osiris is god”… and he was… in the belief of the ancient Egyptians. Of course they were wrong.

From what I am seeing from the above quote, the writer is talking about the beliefs of modern scientist.

Telepathy? huh? I’ve already quoted an anti-Christian citation from your own state Texas’ Masonic Monitor which I do not believe you responded to.

I will do my best to respond to this before end of day tomorrow. I don’t have a lodge monitor with me.

I know by now that nothing I or anyone else posts will dissuade you from the ritualistic stew of the Brotherhood. You are merely sowing confusion, and by the amount of posts you post defending Freemasonry as opposed to the Church, it is very easy to tell what comes first to you. I’m convinced you will keep up the defense of Freemasonry and Grave Sin to your last breath. If not even the Holy See can make you see the light, no poster will. I’m not posting for your benefit because you are set in your ways and illustrate by your stubborn defense just what kind of mystic hold Masonic “light” can have on a true believer.

I’m sure I’ll receive the standard response from you that “I disagree with that publication or whatever” and that we misunderstand Freemasonry but you are doing a heck of a job distancing yourself from official publications of your Brotherhood on here. I guess just about everything printed on Freemasonry by highly-respected Masons must be disowned by you once its anti-Christian message comes out.

Kyiv, masonry is really not that complex of an organization. It is a group of men trying to be better men. Men who believe in the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. Men who look for our similarities instead of our differences.

Please continue to speak out against it all you want.

Sometimes I believe that anti-masons have made me a better person than the masons.

Good luck on that one.

Luck? I don’t believe in luck. Luck is of pagan decent.

Okay, okay just kidding…

Thank you again for your post.

 

[KyivAndrew]

The grand master quickly spoke up and said that there are not banned books for masons, masons do not ban books.

No, they just ban JESUS CHRIST from any mention or prayer in Blue Lodge, York Rite, or Scottish Rite. Seems the “rite” thing to do.

 

[DallasTexas]

No, they just ban JESUS CHRIST from any mention or prayer in Blue Lodge, York Rite, or Scottish Rite. Seems the “rite” thing to do.

Kyiv,

Oh really?

That’s odd then how I heard His name spoken in the Scottish Rite on numerous occasions…

As always, thank you for your post.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Kyiv,

Oh really?

That’s odd then how I heard His name spoken in the Scottish Rite on numerous occasions…

As always, thank you for your post.

Really, what Masonic prayer in Scottish Rite begins or ends with: “In the name of Jesus Christ…”? Please point out where exactly in the Scottish rite a prayer to Jesus Christ appears.

 

[swplan76]

One thing that entry/low level Freemasonry does is it incapacitates Christians.

Freemasonry demands primary allegiance.
It demands that masons primarily put their faith in the teachings of Freemasonry and that they keep it secret.
It provides the mason with a sense of community and meaning that excludes the mason’s religious beliefs.

So, if a mason goes to church, they may give lipservice to the religion of their heritage, but their testimony is not that God is showing them the way through the Bible or through their church - their testimony is one they would never share at church. Their testimony is about what Freemasonry has given them.

The mason will only ever be a Christian on the surface - they may appear to be Christians, but they don’t find community or meaning through church, prayer, scripture, or God. Masonry steals all that from them.

I’ve heard that the guys who are higher up hold a secret: They learn the true name of God. They believe the true name of God is Lucifer. I don’t know if this is true, but that is what I’ve been told. By the time they are that far up in the organization, they are committed and have gone through a process and enough secrecy, that they are led to believe that it is good to worship Satan.

If Satan is the true head of the organization, then it makes sense. Satan would want Christians to be disconnected from God and from finding meaning in their relationship with God. Satan would want to distract us from being involved in church and lured away by the attraction of an elite social network.

 

[Cody1611]

Article about the Masonry God…

baptist1611.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119

 

[human_being]

One thing that entry/low level Freemasonry does is it incapacitates Christians.

Freemasonry demands primary allegiance.
It demands that masons primarily put their faith in the teachings of Freemasonry and that they keep it secret.
It provides the mason with a sense of community and meaning that excludes the mason’s religious beliefs.

So, if a mason goes to church, they may give lipservice to the religion of their heritage, but their testimony is not that God is showing them the way through the Bible or through their church - their testimony is one they would never share at church. Their testimony is about what Freemasonry has given them.

The mason will only ever be a Christian on the surface - they may appear to be Christians, but they don’t find community or meaning through church, prayer, scripture, or God. Masonry steals all that from them.

I’ve heard that the guys who are higher up hold a secret: They learn the true name of God. They believe the true name of God is Lucifer. I don’t know if this is true, but that is what I’ve been told. By the time they are that far up in the organization, they are committed and have gone through a process and enough secrecy, that they are led to believe that it is good to worship Satan.

If Satan is the true head of the organization, then it makes sense. Satan would want Christians to be disconnected from God and from finding meaning in their relationship with God. Satan would want to distract us from being involved in church and lured away by the attraction of an elite social network.

Good job. This thread has tons of links. If you page back a couple of pages you will see that KyivAndrew has posted stuff like that from a whole bunch of denominations. It is a very informative debate with some 450 some posts. It seems that freemason thoughts have achieved a huge amount of followers since the 1700,s. but I know them and (i don’t doubt that their God is similar to lucifer) their God will fall in the end. Satan is the lord of confusion and this world is awefully confused. Although we are taught to believe that it would be terrible to be ruled by a pope,I think they are wrong. I think all the hype they have stirred about freedom has caused alot of confusion and would naturaly have come from Satan… Look how many souls he must have had oppurtunity to snatch due to all this free-will, freedom and liberty and stuff, and all the confusion that comes with it. Although it is a fact that we would sin no matter what--------I can’t but believe due to all of this freemason idealogy permeating the world that there imensely greater odds to sin now for so many people due to the spread of freemason principles. How many more souls are burning now Dallas? And for so many people to be able to say " I can make up my own mind as to who or what God is?" How many souls are burning due to the spread of that ideology? I like you Dallas you should turn from that evil group. I’ve read that bad things can happen to peoples health by taking the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin,and you my friend are definitely in mortal sin…It is sacrelidge to take communion in mortal sin…No matter what false god’s think at the lodge our true god sees you in a state of mortal sin and from what I understand, If you die in mortal sin you go straight to hell…although I could be wrong…I personally wouldn’t risk it.

 

[Oneheartway]

Part of the problem is the very forum this thread was listed in… Non-Catholic Religions. Freemasonry is not a religion. One can be Protestant and a Freemason. One can be Catholic and a Freemason. One can be a Jew and a Freemason. But you can not be a Jew and a Catholic.

The other is the statement that those of us who are Freemasons are in a state of sin. The only argument anyone has given is that it is a sin to not follow the word of the Pope. The Pope is the highest authority on doctrine. But this is not a discussion about doctrine. This is a discussion on membership in a social group. Freemasonry is no more dangerous than the Elks, Moose, VFW. Ultimately we are all praying to the same diety, Protestant, Catholic, and Jew. The Jew’s may have missed the boat on the whole Messiah thing, but their diety is the same. So, where is the sin?

1. I am the LORD your God:you shall not have strange Gods before me.

• The arguement as I see it is that some people claim that the Masons worship a different diety. I can assure you in the Blue Lodge there is no real definately not a different diety. If I ever become a Royal Arch mason (which I don’t intend to do) and find out that the masons are worshipping a strange god, be assured I would happily bring that darkness out into the light. Nevertheless, the diety spoken of in the Blue Lodge is not a strange God, so I do not see the sin.

1. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

• No issue here.

1. Remember to keep holy the LORD’S Day.

• No issue here. To raise a different question, one that puzzles me even today. Sunday is the day most worship on, yet… the translation for Saturday in most european languages is to call it Sabbath. Anyone want to fill me in on this one.

1. Honor your father and your mother.

• Every day.

1. You shall not kill.

• No issue here.

1. You shall not commit adultery.

• No issue here.

1. You shall not steal.

• No issue here.

1. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

• No issue here.

1. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.

• No issue here.

1. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

• No issue here.

So based on a cursory examination of the base 10 laws of god. The only concern is that the Royal Arch masons, a small group at that, may be calling on another diety or possibly ascribing a different name to it? Even if that was the case, that immediately condemns all Master Masons to being in a state of grave sin.

Then I ask, if this is truly such a grave sin. Then why is it that our local priests are willing to overlook it and allow us to take holy communion? Perhaps they are in disagreement with the Holy See. Does that not put them in a state of grave sin. And if that is true, can they actually perform the holy communion, or in their case is the bread and wine not becoming the body and blood of christ. If that be the case, catholics with priests who are open to masonic members and who willingly offer hoy communion to those members are failing the rest of the congregation.

I doubt Jesus would hae denied communion to an apostle had he been a freemason.

 

[DallasTexas]

Kyiv,

Hope this post finds you doing well. As promised, below is my response to your excerpt from the lodge monitor.

Heck, Dallas, I will even do you the favor of quoting from your own state’s Grand Lodge to bring this closer to home:
the most learned among Masonic scholars conclude that Masonry is of very ancient origin, and in some aspects, the modern successor of, and heir to…****the Temples of India, Chaldea, Greece and Rome, as well as the basic doctrines of the Essenes, Gnostics and other mystic orders.
Source: Grand Lodge of Texas, A.F. and A.M., Monitor of the Lodge: Monitorial Instructions in the Three Degrees of Symbolic Masonry (Grand Lodge of Texas, 1982, p.XIV

Surely you must have a copy of your state’s Masonic Monitor buried somewhere in there where you keep your Masonic vestments in the closet, or check out your local lodge’s library.

**

I read this page in my monitor. It discusses what masonic scholars believe to be some of the origin of freemasonry. This is probably the most debated and studied topic in all of masonic research. There is a multitude of opinions and ideas as to how it all began for freemasonry. Most masons do not agree on this subject.

From what I have read, I believe that masonry began in Britain when the Knights Templar ended. Kyiv, I know that you don’t agree with the theory, but apart from remarks about the idea, I have heard nothing that proves the idea incorrect

Two quick questions. Where you see the three large red dots in your above quote is missing text. Why did you quote cut out “the sublime Mysteries of the Temple of Solomon?”

Just curious. I thought it was odd that such a small statement was intentionally left out.

Second question. Why is the idea of the Freemasons being the successors to the Knights Templar met with such fierce resistance by the Church?

Thank you again for your post.

 

[DallasTexas]

Kyiv,

Hope this post finds you doing well. As promised, below is my response to your excerpt from the lodge monitor.

I read this page in my monitor. It discusses what masonic scholars believe to be some of the origin of freemasonry. This is probably the most debated and studied topic in all of masonic research. There is a multitude of opinions and ideas as to how it all began for freemasonry. Most masons do not agree on this subject.

From what I have read, I believe that masonry began in Britain when the Knights Templar ended. Kyiv, I know that you don’t agree with the theory, but apart from remarks about the idea, I have heard nothing that proves the idea incorrect

Two quick questions. Where you see the three large red dots in your above quote is missing text. Why did you quote cut out “the sublime Mysteries of the Temple of Solomon?”

Just curious. I thought it was odd that such a small statement was intentionally left out.

Second question. Why is the idea of the Freemasons being the successors to the Knights Templar met with such fierce resistance by the Church?

Thank you again for your post.

 

[DallasTexas]

To elaborate on my post above…

I’m a proud Texan - a mixture of many different races–Scottish, Irish, German, French (Huguenot–go figure), American Indian, English, and a bunch more of who know what. My beautiful bride is from Mexico. She has an Italian grandfather and Spanish grandmother on one side of her family and a Spanish grandfather and Mexican (indigenous) grandmother on the other.

Even being of this origin, neither I nor my bride share the exact same beliefs as our ancestors. I am not a Huguenot and she is not worshiping any sun god… all this being said, we do have an Aztec calendar somewhere in our house (I think it’s in a closet…).

Saying that the Freemasons are worshiping baal or some Canaanite deity is just not true. A man must believe in only one God to be a mason.

 

[DallasTexas]

Article about the Masonry God…

baptist1611.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119

Hi Cody,

Thank you for your post. I see you’re a newer member; welcome to CAF.

That was a pretty interesting site. I saw the Jack Chick link…

When I was saved at the age of 11, the youth minister provided me a Jack Chick tract. It was a cartoon about a truck driver and his testimony of on coming to know Jesus Christ. It was a good tract and helped me better understand the decision that I was making.

I say this because I hope that he means well and is not making intentional errors.

However a lot of (if not all of) what Jack Chick has written about Freemasonry is either extremely misleading or just a flat-out lie.

Thank you again for your post.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Two quick questions. Where you see the three large red dots in your above quote is missing text. Why did you quote cut out “the sublime Mysteries of the Temple of Solomon?”

Just curious. I thought it was odd that such a small statement was intentionally left out.

Second question. Why is the idea of the Freemasons being the successors to the Knights Templar met with such fierce resistance by the Church?

Hey Dallas, re: question one: No I did not leave out the Temple of Solomon on purpose. I think I was typing like a madman when I posted that one and tried to get in some points with lots of … in between points. As we discussed earlier, I believe the Temple of Solomon entered into Masonic Ritual because some members of England’s Royal Society joined the original Masonic lodges in 17th Century England. Isaac Newton was a member of that society and though he was the founder of modern physics, he did not believe Jesus Christ was God (the Arian heresy) even though he had an Anglican funeral. Newton, surprisingly to many, dabbled voraciously in the occult and alchemy, looking for hidden mathematical magic, so to speak, in the measurements of the Temple of Solomon. His occult ideas on the Temple wound up finding themselves put into the Masonic ritual of building the Temple here on Earth.

On the Knights Templar, most respected secular university historians of the Crusades do not see any connection to Freemasonry as this is largely an imagined association thought up by Feemasons themselves. I’m glad you seem to believe Freemasonry only goes back to the Templars unlike many Masonic mystics full of wild dreams of speculative Freemasonry existing 3,000 years before Christ with the pyramid builders, or with Moses and Christ (who you know is regarded by many Masons as not God but merely the most divine mortal to ever live). The Templar legend is not fought by the Church because it’s a fairy tale which is why no authoritative historians believe it (only amateurs like the guys behind the Holy Grail, Holy Blood books who have made a killing out of selling nonsense to the gullible). Again, you accused me of looking for Gremlins but I’m afraid this whole Templar nonsense is just a conspiracy theory put forth by extremely imaginative Freemasons (and I do not subscribe to any Masonic conspiracies; I just focus on the ritual).

Again, everything about Freemasonic ritual leaves me to believe that Jesus Christ was specifically taken out as the Son of God to whom one should explicitly pray in Freemasonic ritual, and replaced by a blank slate like Hiram Abif who has become the new resurrected figure in Masonry in place of Jesus.

God Bless.

 

[Georgia]

I have to throw in a couple of points here as someone with experience on both sides. Years before I was received into the Church, I was worshipful master of a lodge and was involved in the Scottish Rite.

It has been a long time since I have been inside a lodge meeting, but it has likely changed little. People on these forums seem to think the lodges represent a solid, world-wide body. That may be the way it appears, but each state in the United States has an independent grand lodge that may or may not recognize that of the next state over. None recognize the Grand Orient of France. Rituals and who knows what may vary from place to place. As I understand it, European lodges are a different animal altogether.

With that said, I never, not once, saw anything transpire in a lodge that was against the Church or against any religious practice. I have heard a number of people claim that the lodges are in battle against the Church, but, again, I never saw that. That leads to the claim that Masons teach indifference, but it was seen as keeping out discussions that could lead to controversy. Each candidate for the degrees was told that the lodge taught no religion and that it offered no path to salvation. The candidates were required to believe in a god, no atheists need apply, and were directed to the writings they considered sacred for directions to the “Celestial Lodge Above”.

Some have said Masons worship Lucifer. That isn’t what I saw. I have no way of knowing the religious beliefs of the Masons I knew, but I certainly could see that some were among the most fervent of Christians or holders of the Jewish faith. It was not lip service.

Lodges in my home state ban both religious and political discussions. They have an opening and closing prayer directed to the Grand Architect of the Universe, but they are about the same one hears at every public invocation.

I will do nothing that seems to be rebellious to the Church, so I do not participate in Masonic activities. That said, I have to sincerely say that I never saw anything take place that makes me feel it was immoral, against Christianity, or worshiping some Masonic god. The accusations that Masons are fighting the Church, that they worship Lucifer, or any number of other calumnies puzzle me. I have to think that most who write of the alleged evils of the lodges do so with good intentions, but they describe practices that I never once saw. Truth be told, the lodge was not really all that different from any number of other civic clubs I have attended. I suspect that the most vociferous critics would, if given papers written by credible sources, be red-faced with embarrassment at learning the facts.

 

[workingman]

Part of the problem is the very forum this thread was listed in… Non-Catholic Religions. Freemasonry is not a religion. One can be Protestant and a Freemason. One can be Catholic and a Freemason. One can be a Jew and a Freemason. But you can not be a Jew and a Catholic.
I thought this was the best place for it since alot of denominations have stated documents on this. You are correct up front Freemasonry says not to be a religion. One just has to believe in a god.

The other is the statement that those of us who are Freemasons are in a state of sin. The only argument anyone has given is that it is a sin to not follow the word of the Pope. The Pope is the highest authority on doctrine. But this is not a discussion about doctrine. This is a discussion on membership in a social group. Freemasonry is no more dangerous than the Elks, Moose, VFW. Ultimately we are all praying to the same diety, Protestant, Catholic, and Jew. The Jew’s may have missed the boat on the whole Messiah thing, but their diety is the same. So, where is the sin?

What about those denominations who do not follow papal teachings? (i.e. Lutherans, Baptist, Assembly Of God, ect…) The luring fuction of Freemasonry is a philamprical group. When I was a member of the LCMS they also condemed the Elk and Moose lodges. The VFW and American Legion who I am a member of are a fare cry of even being close to Elk, Moose, and Freemason lodges. As for the same diety that can be a strech of the term. This may offend some people but they are not the same diety. The Jews do not pray to the Triune God nor do those who are Islamic. This makes them a different diety. Could this ring true to the OT when the priest of Ball failed in there ability to burn there sacrafice verses the God of Israle.

1. I am the LORD your God:you shall not have strange Gods before me.

• The arguement as I see it is that some people claim that the Masons worship a different diety. I can assure you in the Blue Lodge there is no real definately not a different diety. If I ever become a Royal Arch mason (which I don’t intend to do) and find out that the masons are worshipping a strange god, be assured I would happily bring that darkness out into the light. Nevertheless, the diety spoken of in the Blue Lodge is not a strange God, so I do not see the sin.
  This command right here is where the problem is. It does not have to be the triune God. This can make it a false God. The prayer is not done in the name of the Triune God.

1. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

• No issue here.
  I have to dissagree here. Do you not remember the blood curdeling oaths taken in the three degees? These were taken on the Holy Bible square and compass. I know I remember very well the oaths I took. Symbolic or not to do this on the Holy Bible is in vain and blasphemous.

1. Remember to keep holy the LORD’S Day.

• No issue here. To raise a different question, one that puzzles me even today. Sunday is the day most worship on, yet… the translation for Saturday in most european languages is to call it Sabbath. Anyone want to fill me in on this one.
  agree

1. Honor your father and your mother.

• Every day.
  agree

1. You shall not kill.

• No issue here.
  agree only if the penalties in the oaths are not symbolic.

1. You shall not commit adultery.

• No issue here.
  agree

1. You shall not steal.

• No issue here.
  agree

1. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

• No issue here.
  agree

1. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.

• No issue here.
  agree

1. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

• No issue here.
  agree
  So based on a cursory examination of the base 10 laws of god. The only concern is that the Royal Arch masons, a small group at that, may be calling on another diety or possibly ascribing a different name to it? Even if that was the case, that immediately condemns all Master Masons to being in a state of grave sin.
  It is not just the Royal Arch but across the board. Please see above.

Then I ask, if this is truly such a grave sin. Then why is it that our local priests are willing to overlook it and allow us to take holy communion? Perhaps they are in disagreement with the Holy See. Does that not put them in a state of grave sin. And if that is true, can they actually perform the holy communion, or in their case is the bread and wine not becoming the body and blood of christ. If that be the case, catholics with priests who are open to masonic members and who willingly offer hoy communion to those members are failing the rest of the congregation.
I will leave that to the Church athorities.

I doubt Jesus would hae denied communion to an apostle had he been a freemason.
I will not even try and answere for what would Jesus do.

God Bless Oneheartway, hope this was helpful.