D
DallasTexas
Guest
human being,
Thank you for your post.
You are right; their names will fade.
However, I don’t think it is earthly glory which they are seeking.
Thank you again.
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Thank you for your post.
You are right; their names will fade.
However, I don’t think it is earthly glory which they are seeking.
Thank you again.
D
DallasTexas
Guest
human being,
Thank you again for your post.
I continue to stick with the freedoms and liberties.
I have never heard of anyone converting to Christianity because they were forced to do so. To walk in Christ is a decision that each person has to make–no one can do it for them.
When is the last time you’ve heard of a government successful at changing anything (joke)?
Thank you again.
J
jam070406
Guest
It wasn’t meant as a personal insult but as a description of someone that comes on the boards to stir trouble or promote your agenda.
D
DallasTexas
Guest
jam070406,
Thank you for your post.
I don’t know who you’re referring to in particular, but I can honestly confirm and verify that I have never met a perfect Baptist…
or Methodist,
or Catholic,
or Freemason,
or Lutheran,
or Dallas Cowboy (that’s a givin)
Hope all is well!
J
jam070406
Guest
Nobody said anything bout people being perfect.jam070406,
Thank you for your post.
I don’t know who you’re referring to in particular, but I can honestly confirm and verify that I have never met a perfect Baptist…
or Methodist,
or Catholic,
or Freemason,
or Lutheran,
or Dallas Cowboy (that’s a givin)
Hope all is well!
The Baptist you went on to quote proved my point.
D
DallasTexas
Guest
jam070406,
Thank you for your post.
I mentioned perfection just for humor.
Which baptist proved your point?
Thank you again.
H
human_being
Guest
Yes it was. I quoted in reference to the freemason views of the baptist whom you quoted. I did see a post by somebody near that post that had problems with baptists but it was not me.forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=330972&page=26 This may be the page by someone named JAM or begining with that. It is post#388 that had a problem with baptists.
H
human_being
Guest
I believe that if they were seeking other-than-earthly glory they would turn from freemasonry and follow the Pope.
And usually,it seems to me that, religions seek other-than-earthly glory. Yet you say freemasonry is not a religion. I can show you a referrence that the freemasons actually did try to be recognized as a religion at some point, if you like but it may take me a few days to find it.
K
KyivAndrew
Guest
To Dallas Texas, Oh, how incredibly thoughtful of you to not call someone names on this forum.
DALLAS, What you are doing is far worse than calling someone names on this Catholic Forum. What you are doing DallasTexas is using a Catholic Forum to advertise and defend Grave Sin. Who cares about namecalling. Call me anything you wish and at this stage I would be actually honored to be insulted by someone so brainwashed into Defending His Brotherhood in flagrant violation of the head of what he claims to be his Church. You’ve already quoted from someone claiming anyone criticizing Freemasonry is full of hate not love, which must mean His Holiness Benedict the Pope of Rome, myself and anyone else who interferes with you obsession in defending the Masonic Religion must be full of hate as opposed to the abundant love you show here in advocating actively for grave sin.
Before I post on this forum, I think twice as to whether what I post may not encourage some to grave sin if I advocate erroneously. You, however, have no such qualms. You say you had a Baptist father, so I take it, from your vigorous defense of Freemasonry, that you probably didn’t have a Damascene moment in which you saw Catholicism as the True Light but probably married into it, or your mother was Catholic, or something like this.
The Pope, the head of what you claim to be your church Proclaims: “that membership in Masonic associations «remains forbidden by the Church», and the faithful who enrolls in them «are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion”.
So let me ask you DallasTexas, do you believe in the Catholic belief that the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ and is to be approached with the fear of God and do you receive Holy Communion when you go to Mass?
J
jam070406
Guest
Whoah, let’s be clear, I never stated I had a problem with Baptists. I mentioned there are Baptists that are anti-Catholic. (not all mind you) Then, ironically, Dallas provided a quote from a Baptist that condemned the idea of an institution (magisterum) getting in the way of private judgement.
In other words, the Church (magisterum) forbids Catholics from becoming Masons. Dallas found a quote by a Baptist Mason that goes against Catholic teaching and used it to justify his membership in the lodge. The institution (Church) says no, Dallas’s private judgement (with the help of a Baptist that, naturally, denies Catholic teaching) says yes.
D
DallasTexas
Guest
KyivAndrew,
Thank you very much for your post.
Not only do I not agree with the Pope on this issue, I don’t agree with many of my leaders.
On any given day, I don’t agree with President Obama, and I still call myself an American–and proudly so.
On any given day, I don’t agree with the chairman of the corporation for which I work, yet I am still an employee.
I can disagree with leaders of the lodge, and I am still a mason…
Unfortunately, I am coming to believe that the issue relates more to a power struggle and a lot of history between the two groups more so than any difference in philosophy.
I converted to Catholicism in April of 2000. I met my wife approximately two months later. I asked her to marry me on our first date–she said no at first but finally accepted on the 16th of September. We were married on the 5th of May (Cinco de Mayo) 2001.
Please send me a private message if you would like to know more about my family.
When I converted, I saw the Church as the most truthful. I never looked at the Church as something perfect.
Freemasons have been accused of being atheist, devil-worshipper, and poly-theist all rolled into one (and quite often by the same people). It is sad that these stories have been repeated so often that some take them to be truths.
Thank you again for your post.
Thank you very much for your post.
Once again thank you. James 3:9-10
Membership in freeasonry is not more a sin than a grapefruit is a Cadillac.
I will not revert to name calling.
Not only do I not agree with the Pope on this issue, I don’t agree with many of my leaders.
On any given day, I don’t agree with President Obama, and I still call myself an American–and proudly so.
On any given day, I don’t agree with the chairman of the corporation for which I work, yet I am still an employee.
I can disagree with leaders of the lodge, and I am still a mason…
I am very curious to learn more about why the Church has stood against Freemasonry for almost 400 years. I have read the papal bulls and found them without merit. Furthermore, I would say that they are definately not filled with love.
Unfortunately, I am coming to believe that the issue relates more to a power struggle and a lot of history between the two groups more so than any difference in philosophy.
Both my parents are Baptist.
I converted to Catholicism in April of 2000. I met my wife approximately two months later. I asked her to marry me on our first date–she said no at first but finally accepted on the 16th of September. We were married on the 5th of May (Cinco de Mayo) 2001.
Please send me a private message if you would like to know more about my family.
When I converted, I saw the Church as the most truthful. I never looked at the Church as something perfect.
Once again, membership in freeasonry is not more a sin than a grapefruit is a Cadillac.
Freemasons have been accused of being atheist, devil-worshipper, and poly-theist all rolled into one (and quite often by the same people). It is sad that these stories have been repeated so often that some take them to be truths.
Yes and yes.
Thank you again for your post.
D
DallasTexas
Guest
human being,
Thank you for your post.
I continue to say that Freemasonry is not a religion abeit many of it’s members are religious.
I am not and will not attempt to defend the actions of all of its members anymore than the Church would try to defend the actions of Its members Hitler, Mussolini, or Franco.
Thank you again.
K
KyivAndrew
Guest
In Craft Freemasonry, God is the Great Architect of the Universe (their code word TGAOTU). The name of the Great Architect is revealed in the rite of the Holy Arch as JAHBULON. This is a composite name comprising the Hebrew God JAH (Yahweh), the Canaanite fertility deity, BUL (Baal, who had licentious rites of imitative magic), and ON (Osiris, the ancient Egyptian god of the underworld). This syncretistic view of God is quite incompatible with the God who has been revealed supremely and uniquely in Jesus Christ. And moreover, Freemasons are forbidden on penalty of decapitation to say this name - something I have witnessed myself. “Darkness is for those without” says the Royal Arch ritual in revealing “the Grand Omnific Royal Arch Word, JAHBULON”. Funny grapefruit.
Albert Mackey, who is revered as a Masonic expert in Freemasonry and whose books are readily available in any Masonic Library is merely stating the obvious when he writes:
It is clear, then, that both according to the basic definition of “religion,” and according to the testimony of the ritual and authoritative writings of Masonry itself, that Freemasonry is primarily a religious institution. (source: Lutheran Condemnation of Freemasonry).
J. S. M. Ward, the author of several standard Masonic works, defines religion as “a system of teaching moral truth associated with a belief in God” and then declares: “I consider Freemasonry is a sufficiently organized school of mysticism to be entitled to be called a religion.” He goes on to say: “I boldly aver that Freemasonry is a religion, yet in no way conflicts with any other religion, unless that religion holds that no one outside its portals can be saved” (Freemasonry: Its Aims and Ideals, pp. 182, 185, 187).
T. S. Webb said in his Masonic Monitor: “The meeting of a Masonic Lodge is strictly a religious ceremony. The religious tenets of Masonry are few, simple, but fundamental. No lodge or Masonic assembly can be regularly opened or closed without prayer” (p. 284).
Albert G. Mackey, former General High Priest of the General Grand Chapter of the United States, and the author of numerous works on Masonry, has this to say: “Freemasonry is emphatically a religious institution; it teaches the existence of God. It points to the celestial canopy above where is the Eternal Lodge and where He presides. It instructs us in the way to reach the portals of that distant temple” The Mystic Tie, p. 32). And in his Lexicon of Freemasonry the same celebrated authority asserts: “The religion, then, of Masonry is pure Theism” (p. 404).
Extremely significant is the testimony of Joseph Fort Newton, a zealous advocate of Masonic principles. He deplores the fact that within the lodge there are many who regard it as “a mere social order inculcating ethical ideals and practicing philanthropy.” He continues: “As some of us prefer to put it, Masonry is not a religion but Religion—not a church but a worship, in which men of all religions may unite” (The Religion of Masonry, pp. 10, 11). With this agrees A. G. Mackey’s declaration: “The truth is that Masonry is undoubtedly a religious institution, its religion being of that universal kind in which all men agree” (Textbook of Masonic Jurisdiction, p. 95).
Conclusion: Masonry is the Supreme Supra-Religion according to Masonic experts themselves. Of course, Masons are obligated and compelled to dissimulate to the profane (us Catholics) should one corner them on their secrets.
May Jesus Christ, and not Jahbulon, bless us all.
Albert Mackey, who is revered as a Masonic expert in Freemasonry and whose books are readily available in any Masonic Library is merely stating the obvious when he writes:
Code:
"On the contrary, we contend, without any sort of hesitation, that Freemasonry is, in every sense of the word except one, and that its least philosophical, an eminently religious institution--that it is indebted solely to the religious element it contains for its origin as well as its continued existence.. . . The tendency of all Freemasonry is toward religion. If it makes any progress, its progress is toward that holy end. Look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and allegories--all inculcating religious doctrine, commanding religious observance, and teaching religious truth, and who can deny that it is eminently a religious Institution. . . . We open and close our Lodges with prayer; we invoke the presence of the Most High upon all our labors; we demand of our neophytes a profession of trusting belief in the existence and the superintending care of God; and we teach them to bow with humility and reverence at His awful name., while His holy Law is widely opened upon our altars” (Mackey: 847).J. S. M. Ward, the author of several standard Masonic works, defines religion as “a system of teaching moral truth associated with a belief in God” and then declares: “I consider Freemasonry is a sufficiently organized school of mysticism to be entitled to be called a religion.” He goes on to say: “I boldly aver that Freemasonry is a religion, yet in no way conflicts with any other religion, unless that religion holds that no one outside its portals can be saved” (Freemasonry: Its Aims and Ideals, pp. 182, 185, 187).
T. S. Webb said in his Masonic Monitor: “The meeting of a Masonic Lodge is strictly a religious ceremony. The religious tenets of Masonry are few, simple, but fundamental. No lodge or Masonic assembly can be regularly opened or closed without prayer” (p. 284).
Albert G. Mackey, former General High Priest of the General Grand Chapter of the United States, and the author of numerous works on Masonry, has this to say: “Freemasonry is emphatically a religious institution; it teaches the existence of God. It points to the celestial canopy above where is the Eternal Lodge and where He presides. It instructs us in the way to reach the portals of that distant temple” The Mystic Tie, p. 32). And in his Lexicon of Freemasonry the same celebrated authority asserts: “The religion, then, of Masonry is pure Theism” (p. 404).
Extremely significant is the testimony of Joseph Fort Newton, a zealous advocate of Masonic principles. He deplores the fact that within the lodge there are many who regard it as “a mere social order inculcating ethical ideals and practicing philanthropy.” He continues: “As some of us prefer to put it, Masonry is not a religion but Religion—not a church but a worship, in which men of all religions may unite” (The Religion of Masonry, pp. 10, 11). With this agrees A. G. Mackey’s declaration: “The truth is that Masonry is undoubtedly a religious institution, its religion being of that universal kind in which all men agree” (Textbook of Masonic Jurisdiction, p. 95).
Conclusion: Masonry is the Supreme Supra-Religion according to Masonic experts themselves. Of course, Masons are obligated and compelled to dissimulate to the profane (us Catholics) should one corner them on their secrets.
May Jesus Christ, and not Jahbulon, bless us all.
O
Oneheartway
Guest
Dallas stated, "Not only do I not agree with the Pope on this issue, I don’t agree with many of my leaders.
On any given day, I don’t agree with President Obama, and I still call myself an American–and proudly so.
On any given day, I don’t agree with the chairman of the corporation for which I work, yet I am still an employee.
I can disagree with leaders of the lodge, and I am still a mason…"
Amen.
On any given day, I don’t agree with President Obama, and I still call myself an American–and proudly so.
On any given day, I don’t agree with the chairman of the corporation for which I work, yet I am still an employee.
I can disagree with leaders of the lodge, and I am still a mason…"
Amen.
K
KyivAndrew
Guest
I’m afraid you may misunderstand the Catholic Church. It is Not a democracy. We do not vote on whether the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ or what constitutes grave sin. Comparing disobeying the Holy See with simply disagreeing with Obama or your corporation on any given day is like comparing apples to oranges but the differences are bigger than that.
Oneheartaway, what degree Mason are you? Have you reached 32nd degree in Scottish rite? Or are you strictly stuck in the lower degrees in Blue Lodge?
You’ve agreed with the analogy comparing the Pope to Obama, so I believe these are fair questions to see how high up the ritual you are since you are advocating for Masonry on this forum.
W
workingman
Guest
Thankyou KyivAndrew, I am just geting caught up on this thread. Quite the list of Chuch bodies that you have that condem freemassonry. I must keep reading. God blessOh, and just so there is no confusion workingman, my post above was directed to Catholic Masons on this forum, not you, since you have disavowed Masonry. May God Bless You.
K
KyivAndrew
Guest
Hey Workingman, what’s with the new get-up? It looks like you are about to
a) go snowmobiling;
b) chop a tree;
c) posing for LumberJacks’ Monthly;
d) showing off a swanky orange toque;
e) have been sent by the US gov. for secret recon. in the Rockies.
One of the above must be true.
God Bless! I better get an avatar
W
workingman
Guest
Naw, none of the above. Fall '08 deer hunt. I had to crop out the rest of the pic to keep out my fresh kill. I don’t want to offend any PETA members. Now I am all clean cut for the summer but that will change around Sept. The winter and hunting growth will come on again. Now though it is time for fishing.Hey Workingman, what’s with the new get-up? It looks like you are about to
a) go snowmobiling;
b) chop a tree;
c) posing for LumberJacks’ Monthly;
d) showing off a swanky orange toque;
e) have been sent by the US gov. for secret recon. in the Rockies.
One of the above must be true.
God Bless! I better get an avatar
K
KyivAndrew
Guest
Very important: will you wear the organge toque when you fish?Naw, none of the above. Fall '08 deer hunt. I had to crop out the rest of the pic to keep out my fresh kill. I don’t want to offend any PETA members. Now I am all clean cut for the summer but that will change around Sept. The winter and hunting growth will come on again. Now though it is time for fishing.
W
workingman
Guest
No that would be silly. I have a abosolutly uggly bucket hat for that. When I get around to pics and fishing. I will try and change my avatar pic.
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