J
jam070406
Guest
Just what goes on behind the closed door of the Loyal Order of Water Buffalo??
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
- Status
K
KyivAndrew
Guest
Thanks jam, I needed a laugh.
W
workingman
Guest
This is a little lengthy but I think for argument worth reading. Christians like to say freemasonry worships the devil. The below is a argument against that with some explanations. This is the websight that reproduced it.
gnosticliberationfront.com/lucifer_and_satan.htm
LUCIFER AND SATAN IN FREEMASONRY
Neither the attributes nor personifications of Lucifer or Satan play any role in the beliefs or rituals of Freemasonry. The topic is only of interest insofar as anti-masonic attacks have accused Freemasonry of worshiping Lucifer. The confusion stems from such 19th century Masonic authors as Albert Pike and Albert G. Mackey who have used the term “luciferian” in its classical or literary sense to refer to a search for knowledge.
“Lucifer” is the Latin term originally used by the Romans to refer to the planet Venus when that planet was west of the sun and hence rose before the sun in the morning, thereby being the morning star.
The same planet was called Hesperus, Cesperugo, Vesper, Noctifer, or Nocturnus, when it appeared in the heavens after sunset. Lucifer as a personification is called a son of Astraeus and Aurora or Eos, of Cephalus and Aurora, or of Atlas. He is called the father of Ceyx, Daedalion, and of the Hesperides. Lucifer is also a surname of several goddesses of light, such as Artemis, Aurora, and Hecate. 1.
The word appears to have entered the religious lexicon when the Hebrew expression in Isaiah 14:12, “HeYLeL BeN-ShaCHaR.” (meaning “bright son of the morning/dawn,” “bright [and] morning star,” “glowing morning star,” or “shining one, son of the dawn.”)2. was translated to “Phosphorus” (the Greek word for Venus as the morning star) in the Septuagint, and then translated into “Lucifer” in the Vulgate (from the Greek Septuagint). Isaiah 14, taken as a whole, is a parable, or prophecy of denunciation against the Kings of Babylon, specifically Tiglath-pileser III (circa 716 BCE) In verse 12, the prophet characterizes the arrogance of Tiglath-pileser III as if the king had thought himself fit to appear in the sky as the morning star, but has fallen to earth, being brought low by the vengeance of the Lord against those who would exalt themselves and persecute the Lord’s people (i.e., the Israelites).
Origenes Adamantius (185 CE - 254 CE), an important Christian scholar of the early Greek Church, and Augustine of Canterbury (d. May 26 604/605 CE), founder of the Christian Church in southern England, both interpreted the use of the term Lucifer as a reference to the Devil.
The name Lucifer was applied to Satan by St. Jerome and then to the demon of sinful pride by Milton in Paradise Lost. This was fanciful development of an original reference confused in translation. Lucifer is the title and principal character of the epic poem by the Dutch Shakespeare, Vondel (who uses Lucifer in lieu of Satan), and a principal character in the mystery play by Imre Madach, “The Tragedy of Man”. Blake pictured Lucifer in his illustrations to Dante. George Meredith’s sonnet Lucifer in Starlight addresses the “fiend” as Prince Lucifer. To Spenser in An Hymne of Heavenly Love, Lucifer is “the brightest angel, even the Child of Light.” In Ovid’s Metamorphosis, Lucifer is the morning star and father of Ceyx. He is described as riding a white horse (clarus equo, book XV.189) and his face is characterized by a bright gladness (see XI.270 ff. Lucifero genitore satus patriumque nitorem ore ferens Ceyx). Also see Books II.115 and 723, IV.629,665.
gnosticliberationfront.com/lucifer_and_satan.htm
LUCIFER AND SATAN IN FREEMASONRY
Code:
[freemasonry.bcy.ca/Writings/LuciferandSatan.html](http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/Writings/LuciferandSatan.html)“Lucifer” is the Latin term originally used by the Romans to refer to the planet Venus when that planet was west of the sun and hence rose before the sun in the morning, thereby being the morning star.
The same planet was called Hesperus, Cesperugo, Vesper, Noctifer, or Nocturnus, when it appeared in the heavens after sunset. Lucifer as a personification is called a son of Astraeus and Aurora or Eos, of Cephalus and Aurora, or of Atlas. He is called the father of Ceyx, Daedalion, and of the Hesperides. Lucifer is also a surname of several goddesses of light, such as Artemis, Aurora, and Hecate. 1.
The word appears to have entered the religious lexicon when the Hebrew expression in Isaiah 14:12, “HeYLeL BeN-ShaCHaR.” (meaning “bright son of the morning/dawn,” “bright [and] morning star,” “glowing morning star,” or “shining one, son of the dawn.”)2. was translated to “Phosphorus” (the Greek word for Venus as the morning star) in the Septuagint, and then translated into “Lucifer” in the Vulgate (from the Greek Septuagint). Isaiah 14, taken as a whole, is a parable, or prophecy of denunciation against the Kings of Babylon, specifically Tiglath-pileser III (circa 716 BCE) In verse 12, the prophet characterizes the arrogance of Tiglath-pileser III as if the king had thought himself fit to appear in the sky as the morning star, but has fallen to earth, being brought low by the vengeance of the Lord against those who would exalt themselves and persecute the Lord’s people (i.e., the Israelites).
Origenes Adamantius (185 CE - 254 CE), an important Christian scholar of the early Greek Church, and Augustine of Canterbury (d. May 26 604/605 CE), founder of the Christian Church in southern England, both interpreted the use of the term Lucifer as a reference to the Devil.
The name Lucifer was applied to Satan by St. Jerome and then to the demon of sinful pride by Milton in Paradise Lost. This was fanciful development of an original reference confused in translation. Lucifer is the title and principal character of the epic poem by the Dutch Shakespeare, Vondel (who uses Lucifer in lieu of Satan), and a principal character in the mystery play by Imre Madach, “The Tragedy of Man”. Blake pictured Lucifer in his illustrations to Dante. George Meredith’s sonnet Lucifer in Starlight addresses the “fiend” as Prince Lucifer. To Spenser in An Hymne of Heavenly Love, Lucifer is “the brightest angel, even the Child of Light.” In Ovid’s Metamorphosis, Lucifer is the morning star and father of Ceyx. He is described as riding a white horse (clarus equo, book XV.189) and his face is characterized by a bright gladness (see XI.270 ff. Lucifero genitore satus patriumque nitorem ore ferens Ceyx). Also see Books II.115 and 723, IV.629,665.
W
workingman
Guest
continued from above
The word “Satan” is from a Hebrew word, “Sathane”, meaning adversary or culminiator; in original Jewish usage (see the book of Job), Satan is the adversary, not of God, but of mankind; i.e., the angel charged by God with the task of proving that mankind is an unworthy creation. 4. Later, as Judaism absorbed such ideas as Zoroastrian dualism and concepts about angels during the Exile, and then as Christianity echoed various concepts from earlier religions, the concept of an evil power ruling an underground domain of punishment for the wicked became fixed in Christian doctrine. In such a doctrine, elements of the Graeco-Roman god Pluto/Vulcan/Hephaestus, the Underworld, and various aspects of Nordic/Teutonic mythology may be traced.
The Latin name of Phosphorus, Venus as the morning star, is the light bringer which heralds the dawn. The name is sometimes applied to the planet as the evening star as well, although Hesperus is properly its name then. By a curious chain of reference, the passage in Luke 10:18 was thought to refer to Isaiah 14:12, in which the star is used metaphorically for the monarch of Babylon. Thus Lucifer became the chief of the fallen angels, the name borned by Satan before his rebellion. 5.
From a supposed reference to this passage in our Lord’s words. ‘I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven’ (Lk 10:18), in connexion with Rev 9:1-11 (the language of 9:1 being in part probably derived from this passage), Lucifer came in the Middle Ages to be a common appellation of Satan. The star of Rev 9:1-11 is a fallen angel who has given to him the key of the abyss, from which he sets loose upon the earth horribly formed locusts with scorpions’ tails, who have, however, power to hurt only such men as have not the seal of God on their foreheads. But this angel is not actually identified with Satan by the writer of the Apocalypse. The imagery in Is was no doubt suggested by a meteor, and possibly it was so in Rev also. 6.
The following references to the Hebrew texts are of some relevance: Numbers 24:17 “…there shall come a Star out of Jacob…” 2 Peter 1:19 “…until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:” Revelations 22:16: “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
It was attacked by St. Jerome in his polemic Altercatio Luciferiani et orthodoxi (“The Dispute of the Luciferian and the Orthodox”). References to these Luciferians, without further explanation, has occasionally lead subsequent writers such as Nesta H. Webster to erroneously assume that they were Satanic.
LUCIFER shining one, i.e. the morning star, as explained by the following words ‘son of dawn,’ Is 14:12). - The word is applied by the writer of the prophecy to the King of Babylon, partly in reference to the astrology for which Chaldaea was famous in ancient times, partly to the prevailing belief in the deification of heroes. The king of Babylon had complacently looked forward to the time when he would ascend into heaven and exalt his thrown above the stars of God. But in reality his dead body would be treated with the utmost contempt. '‘a carcass trodden under foot’, while his soul would descend into Sheol, and there receive but an empty honour from the shades, astounded that the great and mighty king could become like one of themselves. 3.
Reproduced From: The Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon
The word “Satan” is from a Hebrew word, “Sathane”, meaning adversary or culminiator; in original Jewish usage (see the book of Job), Satan is the adversary, not of God, but of mankind; i.e., the angel charged by God with the task of proving that mankind is an unworthy creation. 4. Later, as Judaism absorbed such ideas as Zoroastrian dualism and concepts about angels during the Exile, and then as Christianity echoed various concepts from earlier religions, the concept of an evil power ruling an underground domain of punishment for the wicked became fixed in Christian doctrine. In such a doctrine, elements of the Graeco-Roman god Pluto/Vulcan/Hephaestus, the Underworld, and various aspects of Nordic/Teutonic mythology may be traced.
The Latin name of Phosphorus, Venus as the morning star, is the light bringer which heralds the dawn. The name is sometimes applied to the planet as the evening star as well, although Hesperus is properly its name then. By a curious chain of reference, the passage in Luke 10:18 was thought to refer to Isaiah 14:12, in which the star is used metaphorically for the monarch of Babylon. Thus Lucifer became the chief of the fallen angels, the name borned by Satan before his rebellion. 5.
From a supposed reference to this passage in our Lord’s words. ‘I beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven’ (Lk 10:18), in connexion with Rev 9:1-11 (the language of 9:1 being in part probably derived from this passage), Lucifer came in the Middle Ages to be a common appellation of Satan. The star of Rev 9:1-11 is a fallen angel who has given to him the key of the abyss, from which he sets loose upon the earth horribly formed locusts with scorpions’ tails, who have, however, power to hurt only such men as have not the seal of God on their foreheads. But this angel is not actually identified with Satan by the writer of the Apocalypse. The imagery in Is was no doubt suggested by a meteor, and possibly it was so in Rev also. 6.
The following references to the Hebrew texts are of some relevance: Numbers 24:17 “…there shall come a Star out of Jacob…” 2 Peter 1:19 “…until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:” Revelations 22:16: “I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
- Sir William Smith Smaller Classical Dictionary. ^ 2. E. Theodore Mullen, Jr. The Assembly of the Gods: The Divine Council in Canaanite and Early Hebrew Literature. Harvard Semitic Monograph Series No. 24, Scholar’s Press: 1980, ISSN 0073-0637. ^ 3. F.H. Woods, A Dictionary of the Bible Vol III. ed. James Hastings. New York. Charles Scribner’s Sons: 1908. p. 159. ^ 4. Owen C. Whitehouse, A Dictionary of the Bible Vol IV. ed. James Hastings. New York. Charles Scribner’s Sons: 1908. pp. 407-12. ^ 5. Funk & Wagnall Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology & Legend. ^ 6. F.H. Woods, loco citato ^ 7. The New Encyclopædia Britannica, Chicago: 1989. 15th edition. vol. 7, p. 542. ^ -----------------------------------------------
It was attacked by St. Jerome in his polemic Altercatio Luciferiani et orthodoxi (“The Dispute of the Luciferian and the Orthodox”). References to these Luciferians, without further explanation, has occasionally lead subsequent writers such as Nesta H. Webster to erroneously assume that they were Satanic.
LUCIFER shining one, i.e. the morning star, as explained by the following words ‘son of dawn,’ Is 14:12). - The word is applied by the writer of the prophecy to the King of Babylon, partly in reference to the astrology for which Chaldaea was famous in ancient times, partly to the prevailing belief in the deification of heroes. The king of Babylon had complacently looked forward to the time when he would ascend into heaven and exalt his thrown above the stars of God. But in reality his dead body would be treated with the utmost contempt. '‘a carcass trodden under foot’, while his soul would descend into Sheol, and there receive but an empty honour from the shades, astounded that the great and mighty king could become like one of themselves. 3.
Reproduced From: The Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon
A
Augie1530
Guest
May I add my 3 cents worth I was a 32 degree mason from 1977 to 2005 when I finally woke up to the facts that maasonry and the CHURCH are not compatable, Recently I decided to do a search for any information I could find on masonry on Google that I felt would at least be 98$ honest and not biased in a pro masonic stance by the writers who could be masons. here is what I found " CUTTING EDGE MINESTRIES.COM they tell teh scriptural truth as to the demonic teachings of masonry which a mason does NOT know in the first 3 degrees it is after you have joined Scottish Right or Royal Arch that you mind is confronted with it . I hope this helps
W
workingman
Guest
There is a lot there. My personal initial impression is they are a bunch of conspiracy therist. I will book marke it and save it for further research.
W
workingman
Guest
Yup spent a good chunk of time reviewing the web page and I think they are a bunch of nut jobs IMO. How they come accrost they are just as nuty as some think the masons are.
W
Will8503
Guest
Augie, I entered that address and it looked like the wrong site. Did you mean CUTTING EDGE.ORG
W
workingman
Guest
Will8503 I followed it to the .org sight. The page I got on opening had a witch craft book and a warning in a title about witch craft. I don’t know if that helped you. The link for freemasonry is on the left hand side about half way down.
D
Dirk_Skene
Guest
Whatever
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
most of our founding fathers were Masons … this thread is strange?
W
workingman
Guest
helloooooooooooooooooooo humble. Yes they were. what is strange about this thread?
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
well … saying Masons are some evil organization (which is baloney … it’s just another lodge people join to feel important) is silly (and sounds like religious paranoia to me). Some people (actually probably most people) feel the need to join some group. Whether it’s a church, a fraternal lodge, or whatever … these voluntary associations form part of the fabric of our society. Frankly I know plenty of Catholics who are Masons, and plenty of black men, Baptists, or whatever else you think of (the only organization I’ve ever belonged to besides the military is a volunteer ambulance corps. I’m not big on organizations with an ideology, whatever it may be. I’d rather just help people and serve the country … just want to make sure you guys know I personally have no affiliation with this group).
This thread reminds me of that Ruby Ridge guy if you know what I mean?
J
jam070406
Guest
well … saying Masons are some evil organization (which is baloney … it’s just another lodge people join to feel important) is silly (and sounds like religious paranoia to me). Some people (actually probably most people) feel the need to join some group. Whether it’s a church, a fraternal lodge, or whatever … these voluntary associations form part of the fabric of our society. Frankly I know plenty of Catholics who are Masons, and plenty of black men, Baptists, or whatever else you think of (the only organization I’ve ever belonged to besides the military is a volunteer ambulance corps. I’m not big on organizations with an ideology, whatever it may be. I’d rather just help people and serve the country … just want to make sure you guys know I personally have no affiliation with this group).
This thread reminds me of that Ruby Ridge guy if you know what I mean?
shaw: It’s only baloney to you because you think all things religious or spiritual are baloney.
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
Yeah but the Masons are a fraternal lodge, like the KOC (though they’re not explicitly religious). They’re not anti-Catholic or anti-anything. Like I said there’s plenty of Catholic and minority members of the organization.
If anything the history of the group has been largely a good one (they have generally leaned on the side of liberty) … though they’ve had some black eyes in their history (but today they’re no longer what they used to be, just like the various Roman Catholic religious orders aren’t what they used to be. People just have better things to do these days then sit around in a lodge with a bunch of old men & whine about the glory days
)!!This isn’t much better than paranoia over Jewish conspiracy theories and all the rest of that baloney (I never knew Catholics were prone to this nonsense … I always thought it was those back woods Baptist types who are members of militia organizations and all that type of kooky stuff).
W
workingman
Guest
Maby saying the Masons are evil is rediceruswell … saying Masons are some evil organization (which is baloney … it’s just another lodge people join to feel important) is silly (and sounds like religious paranoia to me). Some people (actually probably most people) feel the need to join some group. Whether it’s a church, a fraternal lodge, or whatever … these voluntary associations form part of the fabric of our society. Frankly I know plenty of Catholics who are Masons, and plenty of black men, Baptists, or whatever else you think of (the only organization I’ve ever belonged to besides the military is a volunteer ambulance corps. I’m not big on organizations with an ideology, whatever it may be. I’d rather just help people and serve the country … just want to make sure you guys know I personally have no affiliation with this group).
This thread reminds me of that Ruby Ridge guy if you know what I mean?
This was all started off of a link I posted from a show on relavant radio. I guess at this point it is neither here nor there. Most people do feel a need to join some type of group Christian or not. I also know plenty of Masons all walks of life. I am cirious would you have a association/affiliation with them if they accepted athiest? I appologise if that is not the term for you.I guess the Ruby Ridge guy I don’t follow.
J
jam070406
Guest
People just have better things to do these days then sit in a lodge with a bunch of old men & whine about the glory days
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
no I wouldn’t join the Masons if they accepted atheists. Why would I (I’d rather waste my free time chasing hot women around NYC 
). I probably will rejoin a volunteer ambulance corps one of these days, when I get back home (something that’s actually useful to society … rather than sitting around with a bunch of old fogies thinking I’m holier than thou – whining about the moral decay of society and how much better it was way back when – while I’m getting tanked on cheap beer).
I hope that never happens to me when I get old that’s all I can say!
). I probably will rejoin a volunteer ambulance corps one of these days, when I get back home (something that’s actually useful to society … rather than sitting around with a bunch of old fogies thinking I’m holier than thou – whining about the moral decay of society and how much better it was way back when – while I’m getting tanked on cheap beer).I hope that never happens to me when I get old that’s all I can say!
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
good one … you got me
W
workingman
Guest
I hate to tell yall this but the loge is geting younger again. This may be the age of resergance of Masonry.
- Status