H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
do they allow in hot young women? If so … count me in!!!I hate to tell yall this but the loge is geting younger again. This may be the age of resergance of Masonry.
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W
workingman
Guest
That would be entertaining now wouldent it. Old men trying to initiate yong men who want to let in hot young women. I think the old men would have a heartatack.
O
Oneheartway
Guest
This issue greatly concerns me as I was and still am a Mason and intend to continue to be one the rest of my life. It was my wife who brought me back to god, it is the mason’s who brought me to the catholic church. They inspired me to look to god in my daily life. Once I had god in my life, I began to seek for answers and I feel that god has lead me to the Catholic Church.
I am a man and I commit sins, but I have tried to be honorable throughout my life. I took a vow before God and I take every vow before God seriously. When the masons asked me to take a vow with my hand on a bible, to god, I paused to consider the implications and I have not questioned my decision. I am proud to be a mason. I am proud that men of denominations can look beyond the differences in their doctrines and as a group perform charitable acts within their communities. And that is what I see them as.
Please do not condemn the Freemasons. There may be a history between the church and freemasonry that has been less than perfect, but the church has its own history which can be questioned as well. Is this not true of us all.
I can assure you that the freemasons of today do not condemn catholicism nor do they practice satanic rituals. They accept men freely who ask to join and believe in one God, they even include Jews in their ranks. Very rare is an organization who accepts men so freely despite differences in viewpoint.
Yes, they have secrets, but they are not a secret organization. They publish their meeting times and locations in the local papers, the locations of their temples are clearly marked with symbols, and they speak freely of their organization with others. Ask a man if he is a mason and he does not hide it, many mark themselves with rings or other items declaring their membership proudly.
From my experience, these are men and women (in the case of the Eastern Star) who believe in a single diety whom they refer to as the Great Architect of the Universe, but its implication is simply God. They do not preach religion, but are a fraternal organization who respect the word of god and who perform charitable acts to the communities they are part of. They particularly look out for the widows and orphans of their members, but do not confine themselves to those alone as can be shown from the Kosair’s Hospitals amongst other charities. The most religious practice I have seen in a Masonic temple is they open and close with prayer. It is hard to believe that god would condemn men for that.
I find it even harder to believe that God would deny me or any other access to heaven for associating in an organization of men who meet and openly commit charitable acts for our fellow human beings.
I am concerned that the church may condemn me for such association. My priest knows of my membership to the Masons. While I can not speak his mind, he did not condemn me for this choice - we spoke on it briefly and he is not intending to refuse me to join. I continue to consult my bible to find something that disallows my membership, but have not located anything to date (please feel free to cite a section if you find one)
0D
The only argument to date that I have found is that the masons were anti catholic at some point, but I reject historical references to both the catholic church and to freemasonry as they do not reflect the men and women who compose those organizations today. I judge the masons as I do the church on its members and their actions and practices.
Perhaps I have written to much, I do not wish to offend. This is a matter of great importance to me and one which has been on my mind for some time and I expect to continue to be. Perhaps this makes me illegitimate to join the church, I continue to seek that answer with prayer and my priest. I await your commentary.
Sincerely,
Tony
I am a man and I commit sins, but I have tried to be honorable throughout my life. I took a vow before God and I take every vow before God seriously. When the masons asked me to take a vow with my hand on a bible, to god, I paused to consider the implications and I have not questioned my decision. I am proud to be a mason. I am proud that men of denominations can look beyond the differences in their doctrines and as a group perform charitable acts within their communities. And that is what I see them as.
Please do not condemn the Freemasons. There may be a history between the church and freemasonry that has been less than perfect, but the church has its own history which can be questioned as well. Is this not true of us all.
I can assure you that the freemasons of today do not condemn catholicism nor do they practice satanic rituals. They accept men freely who ask to join and believe in one God, they even include Jews in their ranks. Very rare is an organization who accepts men so freely despite differences in viewpoint.
Yes, they have secrets, but they are not a secret organization. They publish their meeting times and locations in the local papers, the locations of their temples are clearly marked with symbols, and they speak freely of their organization with others. Ask a man if he is a mason and he does not hide it, many mark themselves with rings or other items declaring their membership proudly.
From my experience, these are men and women (in the case of the Eastern Star) who believe in a single diety whom they refer to as the Great Architect of the Universe, but its implication is simply God. They do not preach religion, but are a fraternal organization who respect the word of god and who perform charitable acts to the communities they are part of. They particularly look out for the widows and orphans of their members, but do not confine themselves to those alone as can be shown from the Kosair’s Hospitals amongst other charities. The most religious practice I have seen in a Masonic temple is they open and close with prayer. It is hard to believe that god would condemn men for that.
I find it even harder to believe that God would deny me or any other access to heaven for associating in an organization of men who meet and openly commit charitable acts for our fellow human beings.
I am concerned that the church may condemn me for such association. My priest knows of my membership to the Masons. While I can not speak his mind, he did not condemn me for this choice - we spoke on it briefly and he is not intending to refuse me to join. I continue to consult my bible to find something that disallows my membership, but have not located anything to date (please feel free to cite a section if you find one)
0D
The only argument to date that I have found is that the masons were anti catholic at some point, but I reject historical references to both the catholic church and to freemasonry as they do not reflect the men and women who compose those organizations today. I judge the masons as I do the church on its members and their actions and practices.
Perhaps I have written to much, I do not wish to offend. This is a matter of great importance to me and one which has been on my mind for some time and I expect to continue to be. Perhaps this makes me illegitimate to join the church, I continue to seek that answer with prayer and my priest. I await your commentary.
Sincerely,
Tony
O
Oneheartway
Guest
"I am cirious would you have a association/affiliation with them if they accepted athiest? "
I might join a charitable organization that accepts athiests… but then they would not be the freemasons.
I might join a charitable organization that accepts athiests… but then they would not be the freemasons.
J
jam070406
Guest
Tony,
please, truthfully, answer my question in post #180. Thanks.
O
Oneheartway
Guest
"Masons,
In the Creed Catholics profess:
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made.
In Freemasonry is Jesus Christ ALONE the “Grand architect of the Universe”? Yes or no? "
Of course he is. In my heart and soul, there is no other who it could be.
Now from a purely intellectual point, I suppose a jewish member may not believe the same, but I know of no jewish members personally, so I do not have one to ask However, I will pursue further, at this month’s meeting, I will ask the other members their understanding.
In the Creed Catholics profess:
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made.
In Freemasonry is Jesus Christ ALONE the “Grand architect of the Universe”? Yes or no? "
Of course he is. In my heart and soul, there is no other who it could be.
Now from a purely intellectual point, I suppose a jewish member may not believe the same, but I know of no jewish members personally, so I do not have one to ask However, I will pursue further, at this month’s meeting, I will ask the other members their understanding.
J
jam070406
Guest
I’m not trying to sound harsh, but I wasn’t asking what you believe in your heart but rather what Freemasonry believes and teaches. I think many on this thread know that what Masonry believes, is in conflict with Catholic Teaching. It matters not how the relationship or attitude has softened on the part of Masons against the Church in more recent years. As Catholics, we must give our obedience to the Teachings of the Church. The Church has declared that a Catholic cannot be a Mason. And those that are Masons are in grave sin and cannot receive communion. This comes directly from Rome, there are no loop holes or personal opinions that can or will trump these declarations from Rome (if you are to be a Faithful Catholic). Besides, If you truly love the Lord why would you not obey His Church (the One, True Church) , repent and give up any association with Masonry?
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
The question you have to ask yourself is whether the primary function of Freemasonary is religious. In other words does it hold a philosophy that controvenes and competes with Catholic theology, or it is merely tolerant of other religions (like most organizations are these days)?
If the latter is true then I’m really not sure what the big deal is? Sure they might have a checkered past … but so does the RCC.
If the latter is true then I’m really not sure what the big deal is? Sure they might have a checkered past … but so does the RCC.
T
the_phoenix
Guest
Quite frankly, I wouldn’t care if the primary function of Freemasonry was to play tiddlywinks. The Catholic Church says don’t join, then don’t join.
"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. " – Matthew 16:18-19
J
jam070406
Guest
I believe the answer is yes and yes. They are tolerant of other religions because they hold to a belief that all religious paths lead to one “grand architect of the universe” and salvation, through these varying paths.
This should be problematic to any Catholic because it promotes indifferentism, a direct contradiction to the gospel and Catholic belief which professes that salvation comes only through Jesus. And Popes have taught as much concerning Masonry.
I’m trying to help clarify for others.
I understand, you yourself don’t hold to any spiritual belief so you are merely trying to stir the pot.
H
humble_in_doubt
Guest
hmmm … they sound pretty cool (to bad they don’t seem tolerant of “no religion”)?
O
Oneheartway
Guest
I pronounced to my lodge that I was approaching the priest at my local parish to officially join the catholic church. I told them that when I was young my faith had wavered and even at one time I had openly believed myself to be an athiest. It was my wife and her example who brought me back to god. It was my lifetime of observation of the good deeds of my grandfather that brought me to the lodge. The lodge and its members through their actions allowed me to see that religious men are not all hypocritical. This hypocrisy I had learned of in my youth, when my father who beat my mother relentlessly sung the loudest in the choir. My father who impregnated my teenage babysitter use his position in the church to ostracize my mother. Those deeds had lead me to turn my back to organized religion and to god. It took me two decades and two children to start seeing things differently. It took another decade and an organization of good men to look for my own salvation.
Do I see the freemasons as a religious organization, no. I see them as an organization of religious men who put aside differences of politics and religious differences and come together to do greater works.
When I speak of my heart and my soul, I should have added my mind as well. I would not take an oath to anyone other than God. It would be dishonorable to say otherwise. The masons did not make any pronouncements about God to me, they left that to me to find for myself. Which is why the answer is Yes, for me. And I believe to my brother masons.
“The Church has declared that a Catholic cannot be a Mason. And those that are Masons are in grave sin and cannot receive communion. This comes directly from Rome, there are no loop holes or personal opinions that can or will trump these declarations from Rome (if you are to be a Faithful Catholic). Besides, If you truly love the Lord why would you not obey His Church (the One, True Church) , repent and give up any association with Masonry?”
Rome also declared Galileo was a heretic, the inquisition was right, and remained silent on Holocaust. The blanket statement above may be valid, but the question remains, where in the Bible or even the Catechism, does it say that Masonry is sinful? and if so, why?
Perhaps I am wrong to ask these questions, but I still ask them.
Do I see the freemasons as a religious organization, no. I see them as an organization of religious men who put aside differences of politics and religious differences and come together to do greater works.
When I speak of my heart and my soul, I should have added my mind as well. I would not take an oath to anyone other than God. It would be dishonorable to say otherwise. The masons did not make any pronouncements about God to me, they left that to me to find for myself. Which is why the answer is Yes, for me. And I believe to my brother masons.
“The Church has declared that a Catholic cannot be a Mason. And those that are Masons are in grave sin and cannot receive communion. This comes directly from Rome, there are no loop holes or personal opinions that can or will trump these declarations from Rome (if you are to be a Faithful Catholic). Besides, If you truly love the Lord why would you not obey His Church (the One, True Church) , repent and give up any association with Masonry?”
Rome also declared Galileo was a heretic, the inquisition was right, and remained silent on Holocaust. The blanket statement above may be valid, but the question remains, where in the Bible or even the Catechism, does it say that Masonry is sinful? and if so, why?
Perhaps I am wrong to ask these questions, but I still ask them.
O
Oneheartway
Guest
“They are tolerant of other religions because they hold to a belief that all religious paths lead to one “grand architect of the universe” and salvation, through these varying paths.”
My priest said that 97% of what the protestant religions believe is the same as the catholic church and that he doubted that the remaining 3% would keep you out of heaven.
No mason has ever said that all relgious paths lead to salvation. I always felt they left that for each of us to find on our own. In fact, we do not discuss religion and doctrine in our meetings. Other than an opening and closing prayer (and before meals), there is little religious activity in the lodge.
My priest said that 97% of what the protestant religions believe is the same as the catholic church and that he doubted that the remaining 3% would keep you out of heaven.
No mason has ever said that all relgious paths lead to salvation. I always felt they left that for each of us to find on our own. In fact, we do not discuss religion and doctrine in our meetings. Other than an opening and closing prayer (and before meals), there is little religious activity in the lodge.
H
human_being
Guest
What is it that they do that is not right? I read that they owe each other favors and must grant them if certain gestures or hand signs are given.
Do you think that they’d sell a country out over freemasonry? Such as maybe a high ranking freemason politician selling out major U.S. business deals to a freemason say from China, Japan, India, or Mexico? Would they sell our own people out as a freemason favor or obligation? Does freemasonic brotherhood come before “country” ? Would a high ranking freemason (and some of our politicians have been) send U.S. troops to war as a freemason obligation or favor to a “brother” ? Would they alter our laws as an obligation to a foreign brother mason? How about our trade policies? As a high ranking former mason would you,or could you be able to answer any of these questions? Would you feel safe to answer?
J
jam070406
Guest
These are nothing but Red Herrings.
read these:
papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13ms3.htm
papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13human.htm
J
joe_clark
Guest
Funny how the church names Free Masonary as “the enemy”, but the Free Masons do not name the church as an enemy? I am not a mason, but I don’t need to fear them. I need to fear the devil. I believe it was and is really about men and the money they generate. I believe the church see the Free masons as “poaching”. The truth is a man can worship God, Jesus Christ, be faithful to him and be associated with the K of C and be a free mason.
If you believe the Masons are evil then you need to see just some of the heritage of America and the people that you also condem. All were found on a websitehttp://www.phoenixmasonry.org/famous_masons.htm listing the following people as Masons.
Gene Autry, Movie and television star,William “Bud” Abbott Famous half of the Abbott & Costello comedy team,Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the United States (1953-1969, George Washington General, Politician, and First President of the United States,John Wayne, American actor, Mark Twain, American author. , Harry S Truman, U.S. President,
Dave Thomas, Founder of Wendy’s,William Howard Taft, Richard Bernard “Red” Skelton, John Philip Sousa, Composer,Theodore Roosevelt, U.S. President, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, U.S. President,Will Rogers American political commontator,Roy Rogers, American actor,Ed Rendell, Governor of Pennsylvania, Matthew Calbraith Perry, Commodore, US Navy,John J. Pershing, Commander, American Expeditionary Force,
Audie Murphy, One of the most decorated United States combat soldier of World War II,
William McKinley, U.S. President, John S. McCain, Jr. (1911-1981), US admiral, John S. McCain, Sr. (1884-1945), US admiral,General Douglas MacArthur, US General during World War II, Thurgood Marshall, U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice, John Marshall, Chief Justice of the United States, Andrew Jackson, U.S. President, Burl Ives, American actor and singer, Warren G. Harding, U.S. President, Virgil I. Grissom Second American in space, John H. Glenn, Jr., Astronaut and US Senator, James A. Garfield, U.S. President, Benjamin Franklin, Henry Ford founder of the Ford Motor Company,Gerald Ford U.S. President, Duke Ellington, Musician, William O. Douglas, US Associate Justice, Bob Dole, US politician, James Doolittle, US General, Jack Dempsey, heavyweight boxing champion, Davy Crockett, 19th-century American folk hero, frontiersman, soldier and politician, Leroy Cooper, U.S. astronaut, Nat King Cole pianist and ballad singer,George Cohan, Broadway star, William F. Cody, a.k.a. Buffalo Bill, Tyrus Cobb, baseball star , Thomas C. Clark, US Associate Justice , James F. Byrnes, US Associate Justice, Admiral Richard E. Byrd US Admiral, Arthur Leopold Busch, Builder of First Submarine Accepted by the United States Government, Harold H. Burton, US Associate Justice, James Buchanan, U.S. President, Ernest Borgnine, Actor,
Daniel Carter Beard, Founder of the Boy Scouts, William “Count” Basie Jazz orchestra leader and composer, Henry Baldwin, US Associate Justice, Edwin “Buzz” Aldrin Astronaut. Second Man on the Moon, Andrew Jackson, 7th President, James Monroe, 5th President, George Washington, 1st President, 1789 - 1797, Commanding General during American Revolution.
A
Augie1530
Guest
**** For all of you that are still active in masonic lodges I hope the following will wake up your mind and heart AND YOUR SOUL about the hidden demonic influences in masonry that are not told to masons until they have reached the 32 degree in SCOTTISH rite or the YORK rite and Shrine , there is a very good website on the free masons which actually was designed and placed on teh web by former masons who had an encounter with the holy spirit and convicted them of the demonic influence in masonry that web site is called cutting edge ministeries.com there is also a very good dvd called ’ freemasonry from darkness to light" and it was produced by jeremiah films -1-800745-1282 I was a 32 degree scottish rite mason from 1980 to 2006 when I finally saw the true light from the Holy Spirit and asked God to forgive me from this masonic organization
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Oneheartway
Guest
No disrespect intended, but a link would be nice.
D
DallasTexas
Guest
jam070406,
Thank you for your post. Hope this message finds you doing well.
There is no plan of salvation in Freemasonry. Different masons may believe in different plans of salvation, but there is no masonic plan of salvation. If there were, I might give more merit to the “Freemasonry is a religion” argument.
Thank you again for your post.
O
Oneheartway
Guest
Augie,
The website you linked to… it also stated “If you carry your belief and trust for eternal life in Roman Catholicism to your grave, you will be as lost for eternity as if you believed nothing at all, like the Heathen. Therefore, read carefully, and prayerfully.” So, your buddies denounce freemasonry with one breath and catholicism with the next.
I tend to not trust websites where their primary dedication is to selling you something. If I had looked further, I would not have been surprised to find the scientologists making a claim to follow Xenu. Sorry, there website seems less orientated to finding truth than making a quick buck.
The website you linked to… it also stated “If you carry your belief and trust for eternal life in Roman Catholicism to your grave, you will be as lost for eternity as if you believed nothing at all, like the Heathen. Therefore, read carefully, and prayerfully.” So, your buddies denounce freemasonry with one breath and catholicism with the next.
I tend to not trust websites where their primary dedication is to selling you something. If I had looked further, I would not have been surprised to find the scientologists making a claim to follow Xenu. Sorry, there website seems less orientated to finding truth than making a quick buck.
- Status