Freemasonry A Evil Group

[rickypaul]

Clement XII, In Eminenti, 28 April 1738

This constitution was the first public written attack by the papacy against Masonry. In In Eminenti the principal objections to Freemasonry given were: that it was open to men of all religions; that there were oaths taken; that Masons denied clerical authority, and that Masons met in secret.4 Pope Clement forbade Masonic membership by Catholics and directed the “Inquisitors of Heretical Depravity” to take action against Catholics who became Masons or assisted Freemasonry in any way. He ordered excommunication as punishment for those who defied his ban

.io.com/~janebm/churchlaw.html

No, you are mistaken, an interdict is NOT and excommunication. Also, you provided a very old (since superseded) statement by Pope Clement. Since this was never declared “ex Cathedra” there is the possibility that it is wrong. But even if it still applies

“it is open to men of all religions:” Are you kidding me? So lets condemn healthclubs and little league.

“there are oaths taken.” - The Boy Scouts of America, and yes, the Knights of Columbus take oaths. We also take an oath on what is usually a non- Catholic, King James Bible when we give testimony in an American Courtroom. Is this practice to be condemned?

“masons denied clerical authority:” Again, the United Stated Government denies Clerical Authority. The masons on the other hand, are not concerned over religion except that members have to believe in God and believe in the immortal soul.

“masons met in secret.” There is nothing in Catholic Dogma regarding secret meetings. KofC degrees are secret as well.

The bottom line is that the idea that “masons” have a monolithic view, or are even concerned with religion is antithetical to the organization. Masons are told that Masonry is subordinate and should never be an equal concern with the brothers Religion or his Family. Religion is a forbidden subject within the lodge.

The position toward freemasonry has relaxed greatly since Pope Clement. See freemasonrywatch.org/cardinallaw.html for Cardinal Law’s letter to American Bishops. This spells out the current opinions. It too, is fraught with misunderstandings about Freemasonry (in America).

The central point of contention (and an error in my view and experience with Masonry" is that the Hierarchy of the Church insists that Freemasonry is a religion. One of the examples is a passage out of Anderson’s Constitutions:

*“A Mason is obliged by his tenure to obey the moral law; and if he rightly understands the art, he will never be a stupid atheist nor an irreligious libertine. But though in ancient times Masons were charged in every country to be of the religion of that country or nation, whatever it was, yet 'tis now thought more expedient only to oblige them to that religion in which all men agree, leaving their particular opinions to themselves.” *

the problem is “that religion to which all men agree.” This is interpreted by the Church Hierarchy to somehow limit the member’s belief. It is considered a minimum of freemasonry, not the other way around. The minimum is a belief in God and the immortality of the soul. Beyond that Masonry encourages its members to pursue their own faith.

god bless.

 

[distracted]

No, you are mistaken, an interdict is NOT and excommunication. ess.

is there any reason i should continue reading your post when you haven’t even gotten the 1st thing correct…

i never said an interdict was an ex-communiction…

ok… been down this road b4… i am goingto decline to read the rest of this post cuz i sense ad hominem around the corner…

and other unkosher practices…

i hate when people put words in my mouth just cuz… well, possibly cuz they don’t have an argument…

and YOU don’t have one cuz i know that Catholics who become Masons are ex communicated…

if somehow the modern Church doesn’t adhere to the old teachings of past popes on this issue… i believe the old popes… totally

 

[rickypaul]

I’ve been very detailed and respectful in my posts.

If you want to believe the old popes, thats your prerogative.

I haven’t posted anything in a 24 point font with multiple exclamation points. I haven’t been angry at all and did not engage in ad hominem attacks, nor will I

I’m just trying to have an intelligent debate.

 

[workingman]

There does seem to be some confusion about freemasonry since it is not so clearly spelled out in church cannon as it once was. The CC has not changed its position about it. Freemasonry is still condemned.

The biggest problem with freemasonry is that it is monolithic. It does not care what god or God you worship. Yes in a American lodge one will find the Holy Bible on the altar. Only because it is the majority religion in the United States. Also the same in Europe usually. Not nec the case in the Middle East, Asia, Africa, ect… The only thing a Mason can’t be is a Atheist.

Philosophically the mason’s may seem ok or in so far what the world judges as good works. But it does not mix well with Christianity. Look at the example of the OT prophets of Baal. This is what I perceive when Masons gather in prayer.

Yes the K of C has oaths ect… They were also founded by Fr. Michael McGivney and stays within CC teaching.

Oaths taken by any Christian should be taken with great care and consideration. After all a oath abominable or not is taken in the name of God. Remember the second commandment. Thou shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

 

[distracted]

I’ve been very detailed and respectful in my posts.

If you want to believe the old popes, thats your prerogative.

I haven’t posted anything in a 24 point font with multiple exclamation points. I haven’t been angry at all and did not engage in ad hominem attacks, nor will I

I’m just trying to have an intelligent debate.

this makes no sense…

i give up

 

[rickypaul]

is there any reason i should continue reading your post when you haven’t even gotten the 1st thing correct…

ok… been down this road b4… i am goingto decline to read the rest of this post cuz i sense ad hominem around the corner…

I quoted your message. You said that I was next going to resort to ad hominem rhethoric. I have not, nor will I.

 

[krbray]

“there are oaths taken.” - The Boy Scouts of America, and yes, the Knights of Columbus take oaths.

I can’t speak for the Boy Scouts, but, as for the Knights of Columbus, I can. They/we do not take oaths. You have confused an oath with a pledge.

 

[gamewell45]

I can’t speak for the Boy Scouts, but, as for the Knights of Columbus, I can. They/we do not take oaths. You have confused an oath with a pledge.

What’s the difference between an “oath” and a “pledge”??

 

[distracted]

its the nature of the oath that is a problem… Masons… i have heard (reliable source) take oaths that if anyone speaks of what goes on in their meetings, that person will be killed by another member…

I’m sure this doesn’t go on in the lower levels… but…

well… who really knows … since nobody says anything?

 

[benidict]

its the nature of the oath that is a problem… Masons… i have heard (reliable source) take oaths that if anyone speaks of what goes on in their meetings, that person will be killed by another member…

I’m sure this doesn’t go on in the lower levels… but…

well… who really knows … since nobody says anything?

hi my friend. i dont know if they still use the blood oaths. but its not for talking about what goes on at meetings. i think the secrecy in masonry, is how they identify eachother. the handshakes, certain phrases, etc. are what are to be kept secret. there are some very good books out there written by masons. such as the hiram key, and the second messiah. very good read. its written from a mason, about masonry, from a masonic perspective. lot of good informantion in there. cant remember the author. im sure gamewell might be able to help us out. Peace

 

[krbray]

What’s the difference between an “oath” and a “pledge”??

An oath is a declaration or solemn promise invoking the name of God as a way of adding emphasis to or strengthening it.

A pledge, on the other hand, is a declararion or solemn promise binding you on your own honor to abide by it.

An oath usually swears to God that a person will abide by something but a pledge relies on one’s own character to do so.

Not all oaths are prohibited by the Catholic Church, but the Catechism (vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7J.HTM) offers cautions when one does so.

 

[gamewell45]

its the nature of the oath that is a problem… Masons… i have heard (reliable source) take oaths that if anyone speaks of what goes on in their meetings, that person will be killed by another member…

I’m sure this doesn’t go on in the lower levels… but…

well… who really knows … since nobody says anything?

Well I can assure you that as a Mason, none of that is true. Many of us discuss with our spouses what takes place at meetings; who has joined, social events planned; who’s ill or in the hospital.

In some ways we are like the K of C; like them, we just don’t discuss the ritual with people outside of the lodge.

Eitherway your “reliable” source is a bit off.

 

[John_of_Woking]

John, I think you’ve been had.

When men take their obligations, they give their word of honor not to disclose certain things that they’ve been told. I’m not talking about leaving lodge due to religious reasons; that’s completely understandable; I’m talking about those who disclose what they gave their word of honor to protect and violated it after demitting lodge or while still a member.

A person’s word of honor is one of the most valuable virtues a person can have. If that person breaks his word and as such violates his honor, then he can never be trusted in society and should be looked upon with contempt.

I respectfully disagree. If what he said he was true I would opine that he had a moral duty to warn people of the dangers which he encountered in the lodge/temple. I would say the moral duty before God supercedes the oath he swore to his brother masons. I also would say that he definitely left the lodge due to religious reasons.

 

[gamewell45]

I respectfully disagree. If what he said he was true I would opine that he had a moral duty to warn people of the dangers which he encountered in the lodge/temple. I would say the moral duty before God supercedes the oath he swore to his brother masons. I also would say that he definitely left the lodge due to religious reasons.

John,

Thanks for your reply. Keep in mind here that the key word is "If. So I thought about “what dangers he might encounter in the lodge?” Perhaps a kink in the carpet that could cause someone to trip? A faulty light fixture that could catch fire and trap Brothers in the lodge? Ice on the front step? An open trap door?

I’m not trying to be a smart aleck, but I am being realistic. If something so dangerous or horriffic were to occur in lodge room, I’d expect him to go to the police and file a report.

The fact of the matter is that there are no “dangers” in a lodge room that would cause someone to reveal what they promised never to reveal.

Its one thing if a persons moral or religious convictions cause him to demit from lodge, but even that is no viable excuse to violate their oath. Many people leave Freemasonry each year for various reasons and they never reveal what they promised never to.

 

[benidict]

John,

Thanks for your reply. Keep in mind here that the key word is "If. So I thought about “what dangers he might encounter in the lodge?” Perhaps a kink in the carpet that could cause someone to trip? A faulty light fixture that could catch fire and trap Brothers in the lodge? Ice on the front step? An open trap door?

I’m not trying to be a smart aleck, but I am being realistic. If something so dangerous or horriffic were to occur in lodge room, I’d expect him to go to the police and file a report.

The fact of the matter is that there are no “dangers” in a lodge room that would cause someone to reveal what they promised never to reveal.

Its one thing if a persons moral or religious convictions cause him to demit from lodge, but even that is no viable excuse to violate their oath. Many people leave Freemasonry each year for various reasons and they never reveal what they promised never to.

by not violating their oath upon leaving, i would call that integrity.

 

[gamewell45]

by not violating their oath upon leaving, i would call that integrity.

Correct. Integrity/Honor defines us as individuals and our status in society. Those who have no Integrity/Honor are untrustworthy and a menace to society.

 

[kabilah]

In case you didn’t know, the Catholic Church (the Church Christ sarted) doesn’t rely on scripture alone. If you truly desired to follow Christ you would denounce Freemasonry and join the Church Christ started, that would be the Catholic Church.

Christ started the Catholic Church huh? Here I thought that he’d been dead for 200 years prior to the assembly that put the original version of the bible together. Wasn’t Christ a jewish reformer, and his followers called christians? I don’t see anything in there about being catholic. But hey, maybe I’m not in the correct paradigm for you folks.

And about the right or only faith, many faiths are far older than the catholic church. As a fallible individual I can’t reduce the importance of any of them. I know what I believe, but I’m not willing to make judgments on faiths I have no knowledge of.

Now for the meat and potatoes of this. I was a freemason, but I left after seeing some ideographic references that I wasn’t comfortable with. Another guy left at the same time, but it was because he didn’t see enough occult information. Yes, he was involved for over a decade. No, I don’t know what degree he was nor would I disclose it. And again not because I’d be killed. It’s because I don’t see it as my place or yours.

What I saw as a freemason was a respect for all faiths. No threats have been lodged and I maintain contact with some of the people I met while at the lodge. If you want the truth, you’ll have to experience it yourself. We can throw around all the rhetoric in the world, but it doesn’t do anyone any good.

And for those of you who believe that the Church is infallible, I have a few topics to interject. The excommunication of early scientists, the slave trade, and the crusades. Good thing no one told those guys “Thou shall not kill.” I know its a bad translation, but the bible is full of them. As a veteran it pisses me off that the hard core literal believers among us say I’m going to hell for killing. And let’s not forget that people are always fallible, organizations are run by people, and only God is perfect whatever name people use to describe it.

 

[benidict]

Christ started the Catholic Church huh? Here I thought that he’d been dead for 200 years prior to the assembly that put the original version of the bible together. Wasn’t Christ a jewish reformer, and his followers called christians? I don’t see anything in there about being catholic. But hey, maybe I’m not in the correct paradigm for you folks.

And about the right or only faith, many faiths are far older than the catholic church. As a fallible individual I can’t reduce the importance of any of them. I know what I believe, but I’m not willing to make judgments on faiths I have no knowledge of.

Now for the meat and potatoes of this. I was a freemason, but I left after seeing some ideographic references that I wasn’t comfortable with. Another guy left at the same time, but it was because he didn’t see enough occult information. Yes, he was involved for over a decade. No, I don’t know what degree he was nor would I disclose it. And again not because I’d be killed. It’s because I don’t see it as my place or yours.

What I saw as a freemason was a respect for all faiths. No threats have been lodged and I maintain contact with some of the people I met while at the lodge. If you want the truth, you’ll have to experience it yourself. We can throw around all the rhetoric in the world, but it doesn’t do anyone any good.

And for those of you who believe that the Church is infallible, I have a few topics to interject. The excommunication of early scientists, the slave trade, and the crusades. Good thing no one told those guys “Thou shall not kill.” I know its a bad translation, but the bible is full of them. As a veteran it pisses me off that the hard core literal believers among us say I’m going to hell for killing. And let’s not forget that people are always fallible, organizations are run by people, and only God is perfect whatever name people use to describe it.

wow brother. did you have a few mortars land too close. seriously. no Catholic i know, is going to say you are going to hell for killing enemy combatants in a time of war. also for all the tolerance you are pointing out in freemasonry, you certainly have alot of animosity towards the Catholic Church. heres a great idea. grab a beer, chill out. after this, study what Catholicism really says, instead of spouting off half truths. i dont accept people doing this to the masons either. when did you serve may i ask. O.I.F. 2010-2011 myself. thank you for you service. Peace