Freemasons

[Damascus]

What can I say? What utter nonsense!!

A very prominant freemason asked me if it was true that I was catholic? I told him that I was, as it was my belief that where humanity is, there Christ must be also.

If you are too afraid to take Him then I MUST

Where are you taking him Sixtus? No one is condoning not loving them we are only telling you that YOU do not need to participate in their activities to love them! Nor do you have to defy the Church in order to fuflill your “mission”.

Get it straight.

 

[sandmountainsli]

Oh well.
If Sixtus wants to drink Goat Blood with Mogen David while kneeling in a Baphomet and praying to Osiris in the name of Hiram Abiff that is HIS business. I just don’t see how he can call himself Christian while doing it.
WP

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Sixtus.

A lot what you say is based on flaws and shifts in logic.

Just because someone is loving and friendly doesn’t mean that what he does is good. I went to a Sikh meeting. People were loving and nice but that doesn’t mean that it is fine for Catholics to join Sikhism.

Now, the church isn’t telling you that you shouldn’t hang out with Freemasons. What is sinful is joining them and probably even supporting them. Is it fine to have Muslim friends? Of course! It it OK for a Catholic to argue for embracing Islam? Probably not.

There is a lot of information on Freemasonry, yet this doesn’t contradict with the fact that it is the secret society. Will your friends answer ALL your questions about Freemasonry? Most likely not. And in case you don’t know then how about a test. Ask them about the 33rd-degree masons “secrets” for example.

Now, you claim to be a Catholic? Well, what does it mean to be a catholic according to you? Does it include obeying the Church’s teaching?

Why is Freemasonry wrong for Catholics? Well, joining an organization which actively supports that all religions are equal is somehow against the idea of Catholism, isn’t it? This is not the same like joining say Rock Society at your College.

How about the Oath they have to take? What do you know about it? Did you know that oath that if you’re Christian you have to swear by God’s to things that God considers sinful?

Now, I have a last question for you. Do you believe that you have better knowledge of freemasonry then the Catholic Church?

Rest is up to you. If you want to join Freemasonry we can’t hold you - we can only tell you that you will be sinning and that you will not be able to receive Holy Communion.

God bless,
Gandalf

 

[Valke2]

Oh well.
If Sixtus wants to drink Goat Blood with Mogen David while kneeling in a Baphomet and praying to Osiris in the name of Hiram Abiff that is HIS business. I just don’t see how he can call himself Christian while doing it.
WP

Is that before or after the dinner? Personally, I don’t believe that masons drink goat’s blood, despite the article appearing in a Turkish newspaper. ANyone have a link to that video? I wonder if Jewish freemason’s are exempt from this ritual. We’re not big on blood drinking, despite certain stories to the contrary.

 

[janryboy]

whats the issue now? I dont think Bro Sixtus is joining freemasonry…from all the things he had shared…i dont think so…

 

[Brian_C]

SO MOTE IT BE.
WP

Tooo funny!

I recognize the reasons for the Church’s historic stance against freemasonry. But in all honesty, I doubt half their membership thinks the ritual is anything other than a good moral code. That being said, the Church says “No” so I listen.

If things in the masonic ritual look familiar to you, it may be that most fraternity/sorority rituals draw heavily on Masonic ritual, as does LDS.

 

[Sixtus]

I confess I have erred

I have seen the freemasons bible. Prior to this, did not believe freemasonry to be a religion. Now I must in all humility admit that I may have been wrong. This is deeply disturbing me. I am thinking about discussing it with our PP.

The freemason bible which is the sacred law and is open at all meetings is the King James Bible. This is evil incarnated. It represents everything not catholic. Anyone who follows this book is surely damned.

I am sorry my brothers and sisters. I feel really foolish now, to having associated with an organisation [freemasonry] which uses this most evil of bibles

 

[IHS]

I confess I have erred

I have seen the freemasons bible. Prior to this, did not believe freemasonry to be a religion. Now I must in all humility admit that I may have been wrong. This is deeply disturbing me. I am thinking about discussing it with our PP.

The freemason bible which is the sacred law and is open at all meetings is the King James Bible. This is evil incarnated. It represents everything not catholic. Anyone who follows this book is surely damned.

I am sorry my brothers and sisters. I feel really foolish now, to having associated with an organisation [freemasonry] which uses this most evil of bibles

The Bible is there as an ornament,a piece of furniture.It is not read from or quoted.Its used as part of the smoke screen.

 

[Sixtus]

Originally Posted by sandmountainsli
Oh well.
If Sixtus wants to drink Goat Blood with Mogen David while kneeling in a Baphomet and praying to Osiris in the name of Hiram Abiff that is HIS business

If people like sandmountainsli are prepared to lie, slander and outcast to support their own ideological beliefs, then it not only injures their neighbour, it also paints a very vivid picture of the slanderer.

This is also what gets Christianity a bad name.

Freemasons do not drink blood. But lets pretend they do. This fits nicely with the bible which forbids drinking of blood. This adds credence to the slander. The slanderer [sandmountainsli] having injured the good name of them whom he hates [also forbidden in the teachings of Christ] by using the bible against them. That is how all bigots work. That is also the process of ‘outlawing’ and ‘outcasting’ works. The process Hitler used against the Jews, the Serbs against the Muslims, Protestants against Catholics in Northern Ireland etc etc

Christianity does not need that kind of preaching. Christ said ‘be a witness’ not ‘slander your neighbour in the hope of discrediting him so that folk follow what you preach’.

 

[Sixtus]

My dear GANDALF THE WHITE

A lot what you say is based on flaws and shifts in logic.

If associating with the poor is a shift in logic so be it. I suppose prisoners deserve all they get? We are ALL sinners by one definition or another. Before God, I do not see prisoners as anything different to myself.

Just because someone is loving and friendly doesn’t mean that what he does is good. I am now aware of that. I have discovered that freemasons use the evil King James bible. I have already repented of thatI went to a Sikh meeting. People were loving and nice but that doesn’t mean that it is fine for Catholics to join Sikhism.

Now, the church isn’t telling you that you shouldn’t hang out with Freemasons. What is sinful is joining them and probably even supporting them. Is it fine to have Muslim friends? Of course! It it OK for a Catholic to argue for embracing Islam? Probably not.Christ ate with sinners. Did He repent?

There is a lot of information on Freemasonry, yet this doesn’t contradict with the fact that it is the secret society. Will your friends answer ALL your questions about Freemasonry? Most likely not. And in case you don’t know then how about a test. Ask them about the 33rd-degree masons “secrets” for example.You are right,. I asked my master mason brother about it and he has never heard of the 33rd-degree, therefore cannot answer my question. He has informed that anyone of any nationality, creed or belief [so long as they believe in God-in some lodges and Christ in others] are eligible. Anyone can become a member if they chose. So where is the secrecy?I know the rituals only becuase he has used me to practice his lines on, for his various progess through from 1st to 3rd degree

Now, you claim to be a Catholic? Well, what does it mean to be a catholic according to you? Does it include obeying the Church’s teaching?Of course it does, that is why I concurred not only with our priest and bishop but also found out the views of an eminent arch-bishop

Why is Freemasonry wrong for Catholics? Well, joining an organization which actively supports that all religions are equal is somehow against the idea of Catholism, isn’t it? This is not the same like joining say Rock Society at your College.I work as a local government officer. In their equal opportunities policy it states that all are equal regardless of religious belief, colour, sexual orientation, creed etc etc. I support that 100%. It was once the case that freemasonry was believed to be diametrically opposed to the Catholic Church. That is no longer the case [with exception to neo masonry such as the Orange Lodge which is distanced by regular freemasonry because of its bigotry towards Catholicism[/COLOR]

How about the Oath they have to take? What do you know about it?Only what I have helped my brother to learn, when checking he has learned his lines correctly Did you know that oath that if you’re Christian you have to swear by God’s to things that God considers sinful? No I didnt know that? What in particular?

Now, I have a last question for you. Do you believe that you have better knowledge of freemasonry then the Catholic Church?No but obviously you do

Rest is up to you. If you want to join Freemasonry we can’t hold you - we can only tell you that you will be sinning and that you will not be able to receive Holy Communion.But you could join sandmoutanisli by slandering me and speaking all manner of culumny and detraction against me.

This has been a very salutary lesson for me. I am now committed to challenging the bigotry of alleged Christians against those whom they do not understand and against those whom they wish to victimise and declare outcast. I can now thanks to this thread see the arguements of Islam and a few others.

Recently, on discovering how committed I am to catholicism, a ‘shocked’ colleague went on to tell me how ‘no disrespects to me’ she dislikes all the hypocrisy in the church’. Normally, I would have come out ‘guns blazing’. This time, I sat quietly and just listened, not offering anything by way of reply except quietly saying to myself ‘yes, I agree with you’!
God bless,
Gandalf

God bless

Sixtus

 

[sandmountainsli]

If people like sandmountainsli are prepared to lie, slander and outcast to support their own ideological beliefs, then it not only injures their neighbour, it also paints a very vivid picture of the slanderer.

This is also what gets Christianity a bad name.

.

I am sorry that you refuse to accept my help or listen to my advice on a subject which I am familiar with.
I was only trying to keep you from joining a dangerous cult.
You took it as slander when it was help.
WP

 

[sandmountainsli]

Folks,
Please understand that I am not trying to slander Sixtus or start a fight with him.
I am just attempting to help clue him in to what this organization really stands for.
WP

 

[Sixtus]

You can go in the name of Christ,just like the Lord said they will cast out demons in my name,but get away I never knew you. How many time will Christ send a boat to save you. All you have to do is jump in or you will drown. Your brothers and sisters in Christ are trying to help you to see the Truth but you refuse.Pray that God will expose the real enemy to you.

IHS

Christ also said ‘I have flocks not of this fold’. I think that is the one you are quoting.
Thank you for your pious thoughts, but do not be afraid of a healthy skeptism. The truth will AWAYS prevail whatever you do to it.

Mountainsli, thank you too for your concerns. May God keep you always. Keep me in your prayers as indeed I will you

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If associating with the poor is a shift in logic so be it. I suppose prisoners deserve all they get? We are ALL sinners by one definition or another. Before God, I do not see prisoners as anything different to myself.

Where did I say that associating with poor is a shift in logic? You just prove my point. Actually, if you carefully read what I said you will find out that I wrote this: “Now, the church isn’t telling you that you shouldn’t hang out with Freemasons.”

Christ ate with sinners. Did He repent?

What does it have to do with what I said? I’m sorry, but you don’t seem to be reading what people write. This is why I speak about flaws etc.

I said: “Now, the church isn’t telling you that you shouldn’t hang out with Freemasons. What is sinful is joining them and probably even supporting them. Is it fine to have Muslim friends? Of course! It it OK for a Catholic to argue for embracing Islam? Probably not.”

In other words, Christ ate with sinner but he didn’t sin with them. Actually joining the organization is different from “hanging out with its members”.

You are right,. I asked my master mason brother about it and he has never heard of the 33rd-degree, therefore cannot answer my question. He has informed that anyone of any nationality, creed or belief [so long as they believe in God-in some lodges and Christ in others] are eligible. Anyone can become a member if they chose. So where is the secrecy?I know the rituals only becuase he has used me to practice his lines on, for his various progess through from 1st to 3rd degree

Yes, people can join it. It is not as secret as that it would not allow new members to join in. It is secret in the sense that it is an organization with many secrets.

Scottish Rite has degrees numbered from 4° up to 33°. Anyways, the point is that it has many secrets.

Of course it does, that is why I concurred not only with our priest and bishop but also found out the views of an eminent arch-bishop

And what did they say on this matter?

I work as a local government officer. In their equal opportunities policy it states that all are equal regardless of religious belief, colour, sexual orientation, creed etc etc. I support that 100%. It was once the case that freemasonry was believed to be diametrically opposed to the Catholic Church. That is no longer the case [with exception to neo masonry such as the Orange Lodge which is distanced by regular freemasonry because of its bigotry towards Catholicism

No one is telling you Freemasonry hold two totally opposite views on everything. However the fact that freemasonry agrees with some Catholic teaching doesn’t mean that it agrees with all (nor that it doesn’t contradict some of them).

Only what I have helped my brother to learn, when checking he has learned his lines correctly

Can you tell us what the oath said?

No I didnt know that? What in particular?

Penalties for not fulfilling the oaths. There are of course other reasons, such as the possibility that you might need to end up lying during confession.

No but obviously you do

Obviously? How is that obvious?

Anyways, unless you don’t believe that Freemasonry is ok, it’s you.

But you could join sandmoutanisli by slandering me and speaking all manner of culumny and detraction against me.

First, I’m joining no one. Second, could you show me one place where I’m ‘slandering you and speaking all manner of calumny and detraction you?’

Seriously, you seem to be reading more then it’s there. All we are saying (at least what I’m saying) is that it is wrong to join Freemasonry however good its members appear to be. I’m not telling you to break any connections you have with them (unless you feel tempted to join).

This has been a very salutary lesson for me. I am now committed to challenging the bigotry of alleged Christians against those whom they do not understand and against those whom they wish to victimise and declare outcast. I can now thanks to this thread see the arguements of Islam and a few others.

Sorry, but I think you should start reading and stop interpreting. I’m sorry if I sound harsh but there is really nothing else I could say to this.

I hope you now understand.
[/quote]

 

[ChiefCounsellor]

If you want a book that explains why Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity, I recommend this book, Freemasonry Unmasked, written by John Salza…a former 32nd degree Freemason and shriner.

catalog.osv.com/Catalog.aspx?ProductCode=T278

 

[lak611]

It is ok to associate with known Freemasons, but it is sinful to join their organisation. Yes, please, be a good Christian friend to them; you may even convince them of the error of their ways. However, to join their organisation means that you would have to make vows and swear oaths that are not only anti-Catholic, but also hateful to any Christian. Please listen to those of us who are warning you. Sandmountainsli is a Protestant (Methodist), but he knows that Freemasons are anti-Christian. This is not a Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox issue. NOBODY who is a Christian should join this evil group.

If you had a bad experience with the Knights of Columbus, maybe you should consider the Holy Name Society, which is a good fraternity for Catholic men. Or, if you are interested in helping the poor, perhaps the St. Vincent DePaul society would be the way for you to go. Don’t give up on the good Catholic men’s groups. All of them are not like the one you were involved with. Whatever you do, make sure that you do not fall victim to some evil cult just because of a bad experience with a Catholic fraternity.

By the way, I have a Jewish friend (Orthodox Jew) who thought about the Masons but decided no because he heard about their initiation rituals. He also found out that many of their practices conflicted with the teachings of the Torah.

 

[whosebob]

Christ also said ‘I have flocks not of this fold’. I think that is the one you are quoting. Thank you for your pious thoughts, but do not be afraid of a healthy skeptism. The truth will AWAYS prevail whatever you do to it.

JMJ + OBT​

Sixtus, may Our Lord bless you and may the prayers of the Blessed Virgin obtain for you the grace to grow in conformity with God’s holy will. Have you seen the FAQs on Freemasonry authored by a former Freemason, John Salza (who is now a committed Catholic)? Mr. Salza has also published a book on Freemasonry.

Mr. Salza provides a personal e-mail address on that same website, which you could use to contact him directly – I’m sure he would be glad to have a cordial, factual exchange with you on this subject.

But to “get down to brass tacks,” here is the text of a directive from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), signed by then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, which explains the Church’s present discipline regarding whether Catholics may or may not join Masonic organizations:

Declaration on Masonic Organizations

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

Joseph Card. RATZINGER
Prefect

• Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
  Titular Archbishop of Lorium
  Secretary

Having read that declaration – even if you don’t personally agree with it – you cannot in good conscience enroll in a Masonic organization; and if you do, then you will have objectively gravely damaged your relationship with Christ and His Church, and should therefore refrain from receiving Holy Communion until you address the situation with a Catholic priest in the Sacrament of Confession.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

 

[Sixtus]

defy the Church

The Catholic Church [by the grace of God] teaches many things. Most are taught as ‘black and white’. In reality however, she recognises that people’s ‘lived experience’ more often than not, is shades of grey.

A classic example of this is those who divorce and re-marry, barred from Holy Communion…or so it seems! There are some for whom tortuous marriages are not endurable but for whom, annulment inflicts more injury. She is very tolerant. Her canon lawyers very understanding.

Life is rarely black and white. This thread IS black and white. Reality is much more complex.

 

[Brian_C]

The Catholic Church [by the grace of God] teaches many things. Most are taught as ‘black and white’. In reality however, she recognises that people’s ‘lived experience’ more often than not, is shades of grey.

A classic example of this is those who divorce and re-marry, barred from Holy Communion…or so it seems! There are some for whom tortuous marriages are not endurable but for whom, annulment inflicts more injury. She is very tolerant. Her canon lawyers very understanding.

Life is rarely black and white. This thread IS black and white. Reality is much more complex.

The Catholic Church is about submitting to the authority of Christ and the teaching magesterium. On this issue, Benedict says there are no shades of gray. As I said, I personally have no real issue with the freemasons beside the fact that many have been anti-catholic. But the Magesterium says no masons…so, no masons! You’d be surprised how much easier it can be to live life when you do see black and white and try not to blur everything.

 

[hosemonkey]

There is a great deal of misinformation about Freemasonry on this thread. I speak from 25 years of experience as a former Freemason before I left the order after my conversion to Catholicism. I left in obedience to my Church. Firstly, Freemasonry is divided generally into three groups. Blue Lodge Masonry (to which every Mason must belong) York Rite Masonry and Scottish Rite Masonry. The Blue Lodge consists of three degrees and is the ordinary membership for the vast majority of Masons. York Rite is primarily Christian in orientation and places heavy emphasis on reverence to Jesus Christ. Scottish Rite Masonry attracts both Christians and members of other non-Christian religions. Shriners are Scottish Rite Masons. The rituals of Freemasonry are symbolic and moral in nature and while teaching largely humanism, are not morally objectionable. Masonic membership in general is shrinking rapidly, due to an aging membership and the difficulty of attracting younger candidates. Freemasonry has in the past possessed some temporal power, but wields little influence today. Freemasonry possesses no earth-shattering secrets or satanic rituals. I think that most people would be greatly disappointed if they found out what the secrets of Freemasonry really are. I have no quarrel with Freemasonry, I have been shown a greater truth by the Catholic Church.