French kissing

  • Thread starter Thread starter Windfish
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Elizabeth502 said:
Debora, perhaps this is what Bookcat is talking about:

Different people have different tolerance levels when it comes to contact with the opposite sex. For a good many people, sexual arousal is brought about with French kissing. I’m not going to get more graphic than that. That would put a person who knows what his or her tolerance level is (if that applies to him or her), in a near occasion of sin, and to do so casually, irresponsibly, can be a serious matter.

I agree with the previous poster that it is a matter of prudential judgment, but for many people it’s not a “confusion” between sexual pleasure and sexual arousal, but rather a kinship between the two, as well as, for many, a serious temptation.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with what you are saying here. But this is not what he was saying.

He was saying that premarital french kissing is a sin in and of itself, period. Intrinsically evil.
 
Bookcat said:
A person engaged in kissing…and fully consenting to the sexual pleasure involved (with full knowledge) is committing a mortal sin.
Click to expand...
Well there was no sexual pleasure involved, so I guess we’re good.
 
Debora123 said:
I totally agree with what you are saying here. But this is not what he was saying.

He was saying that premarital french kissing is a sin in and of itself, period. Intrinsically evil.
Click to expand...
Thank you need to read more of my posts …

I am quite precise I think… in what I say and what I do not say…
 
Debora123 said:
Well there was no sexual pleasure involved, so I guess we’re good.
Click to expand...
That would be troubling actually…

usually even simple kissing will have at least at times the side effect of some stimulation…

Did you have tape over your lips 🙂
 
Bookcat said:
That would be troubling actually…

usually even simple kissing will have the side effect of some stimulation…

Did you have tape over your lips 🙂
Click to expand...
No.

I don’t get actual sexual pleasure from mouth stimulation. Didn’t realize anyone did.
 
Bookcat said:
Thank you need to read more of my posts …

I am quite precise I think… in what I say and what I do not say…
Click to expand...
This one is quite clear:
Posted by Bookcat:
Click to expand...
It is not just a matter of a near occasion of sin.
Click to expand...
Nor is it only a matter of what tempts on to fornication.
Click to expand...
The direct seeking of sexual pleasure outside of marriage is grave matter for mortal sin…in any what that it is sought.

And some actions are simply that and can not be done for any good reason…they are not like chaste kissing or holding of the hands…but are really to be reserved for marriage. To engage in them otherwise is to engage in and act of lust.

(of course if one consents to it what it was not initially sought in some otherwise good action…that too is grave)

It would seem to me that French kissing …seems to be more of that sort of act.

Also see Catholic Answers Apologist: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…french+kissing

I have not simplistically condemned it…I have articulated various times how it is not for those who are not married and why.

As to the article …they noted they were only giving examples…they could have listed a whole boatload of things…but that was not their goal. Not finding the words there does not mean they did not have such also in mind.

French kissing is not something really that is a ‘sign of affection’ for the unmarried. There is no reason for people to be putting their tongues in each others mouths…this is an act that if engaged in at all is fitted to the married …
 
Debora123 said:
This one is quite clear:
Click to expand...
Right there are some things that I think should not be done for any reason…by the unmarried.

Read the other post where I go into more on the removing of clothes on a date…where removing clothes are not intrinsically evil…(one can do so say in a doctor office for an exam) but such is among things that should not be done on a date!!
 
Bookcat said:
Right I do not think they should be done for any reason…

Read the other post where I go into more on the removing of clothes on a date…where removing clothes are not intrinsically evil…(one can do so say in a doctor office for an exam) but such is among things that should not be done on a date!!
Click to expand...
Umm, yeah, and I never said that you believe french kissing was always wrong. I said that you believe premarital french kissing is always wrong. Unless you’re going to tell me you don’t feel this way, what I said was still correct.
Debora123 said:
He was saying that premarital french kissing is a sin in and of itself, period. Intrinsically evil.
Click to expand...
 
Bookcat said:
Well we disagree. Your here…ummm…putting words in my mouth. Also it seems your not reading my posts but picking out a line to respond too while ignoring the rest…
Click to expand...
I read all of your posts in their entirety, and I think my replies take into account all of what you have written though not necessarily explicitly.

No hard feelings about the disagreement. I’ll continue to look into this and update this thread if my view changes. I’ll seek out other opinions.
 
Debora123 said:
Umm, yeah, and I never said that you believe french kissing was always wrong. I said that you believe premarital french kissing is always wrong. Unless you’re going to tell me you don’t feel this way, what I said was still correct.
Click to expand...
It is not a matter of what I feel. 🙂 (think…rather…and feel)

Saying that such should not be engaged in by the unmarried …or that it is of such a nature that it is more in the area of the directly stimulating/arousing/sexual pleasure actions …or that there is no reason for the unmarried to be putting their tongues into each others mouths…

is not the same as saying that it is intrinsically evil. Just as I noted that the fact that the removal of clothing on a date should not happen … does not make it intrinsically evil to remove ones clothes.
 
Bookcat said:
It is not a matter of what I feel. 🙂 (think…rather…and feel)
Click to expand...
Word games all you want Bookcat. This statement above here is just nitpicking, and you know it.
Saying that such should not be engaged in by the unmarried …or that it is of such a nature that it is more in the area of the directly stimulating/arousing/sexual pleasure actions …or that there is no reason for the unmarried to be putting their tongues into each others mouths…
Click to expand...
is not the same as saying that it is intrinsically evil. Just as I noted that the fact that the removal of clothing on a date should not happen … does not make it intrinsically evil to remove ones clothes.
Click to expand...
…Annnnnnnnd, once again, that is why I SPECIFIED that you think PREMARITAL french kissing is always a sin, in and of itself. This means I said you think premarital french kissing is intrinsically evil:
Debora123 said:
He was saying that premarital french kissing is a sin in and of itself, period. Intrinsically evil.
Click to expand...
…to which you said I was incorrect, but clearly I wasn’t.

And then I explained it to you again right here:
Posted by Debora123
Umm, yeah, and I never said that you believe french kissing was always wrong. I said that you believe premarital french kissing is always wrong. Unless you’re going to tell me you don’t feel this way, what I said was still correct.
Click to expand...
Are you not understanding something here? Am I missing something?
 
Debora123 said:
Word games all you want Bookcat. This statement above here is just nitpicking, and you know it.

…
Click to expand...
I am not playing word games. I am being theologically precise. I usually make an effort to choose my words carefully in responding on the forum…for it will be read by many…

I even go back and fix things after the initial posting at times. And in this discussion I have sought to do such.

No games.
 
Bookcat said:
I am not playing word games. I am being theologically precise. I usually make an effort to choose my words carefully in responding on the forum…for it will be read by many…

I even go back and fix things after the initial posting at times. And in this discussion I have sought to do such.

No games.
Click to expand...
Ok, if it’s that important to you, let me reword it then:
Posted by** Debora123**
Umm, yeah, and I never said that you believe french kissing was always wrong. I said that you believe premarital french kissing is always wrong. Unless you’re going to tell me you don’t THINK this way, what I said was still correct.
Click to expand...
 
Debora123 said:
Ok, if it’s that important to you, let me reword it then:
Click to expand...
I think that French kissing is an activity never to be engaged in by the unmarried.

(unless they are French in nationality and are chastely kissing without the use of the tongue…)
 
Basically, Bookcat, your position is this: french kissing should never be done by the unmarried because it is the “direct seeking of sexual pleasure outside of marriage.” Right?
 
Bookcat said:
I think that French kissing is an activity never to be engaged in by the unmarried.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know. You also think doing so is a sin in and of itself. Just as I CORRECTLY explained to Elizabeth.
 
Windfish said:
Basically, Bookcat, your position is this: french kissing should never be done by the unmarried because it is the “direct seeking of sexual pleasure outside of marriage.” Right?
Click to expand...
Actually not. That can be part of it though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top