Friday Abstinance

[Badaliyyah]

See posts #1 and #3 to see what the Code of Canon Law says and the USCCB says. The fact is some form of sacrifice is required and Friday remains a day of penance, just the USCCB has removed abstinence under pain of sin by allowing another substitution to be made, but some form of penance is to be done.

I spoke a priest who is a Canon Lawyer in the diocese who said it is a sin to not fast from meat (or, I assume, to make some other sacrifice in place of meat).

Pax Christi tecum.

I did read those posts. But if we can’t even get the canon lawyers to agree on what they mean, what chance do I have. I would presume it has a lot to do with what is going on in those last couple paragraphs of the US bishops instruction and especially the word “free”. But I do not have the skills to say for certain what the US bishops meant.

On the other hand, you would think the American Latin Bishops might have the skills to issue a one paragraph memo:

Dear Americans,

Barring grave reason it is a sin to not do some form of penance on Friday.

Thank you for playing,
the Bishops.

-or

Dear Americans,

We would like you do some form of penance on Friday, but it isn’t required.

Thank you for playing,
the Bishops.

---

how hard would that be really??

I should look…it might be helpful to compare the instructions for the Wed/Fri fasts in the Melkite Church to see how they are worded…If there even is an official instruction.

salaam.

 

[sancte_joseph]

personally (my parents not really being catholic)
dad: craddle catholic
mom: no religion for years

anyway…i was never taught this…so when i do try to practice no meat on fridays i forget…anyway…

NOBODY TEACHES (OR HAS TAUGHT ME) THAT WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING ON FRIDAY

I THINK PEOPLE JUST HEARD “YOU DON’T HAVE TO ABSTAIN FROM MEAT” BUT THEY DIDN’T LISTEN OR WANT TO LISTEN TO THE NEW RULE

why can’t we abstain from meat on fridays AND do something charitable or sacrifice something ELSE according to our own devotion

 

[eelpis]

There’s no abstinence today because it’s the solemnity of the Assumption.

Mary is assumed into heaven and the angels rejoice, together they praise the son of God.

 

[Lhhs]

Has the Friday abstinence from meat been done away with?.

My impression was that it had not been (done away with). To everyone who tells me we can eat meat on Fridays again. . .upon further discussion they say they can do Some Other Penance. When I ask, Oh, what do people do then? . . . and answer is always “nothing.”

 

[Lhhs]

As it stands, you could almost be eating something in the car on the way if Mass lasts an hour or more! Is that really a fast?QUOTE]

Exactly. As long as you chew and swallow before entering the Church you pretty much make your hour. That’s a cinch. “…no eating in the pews…” I always thought it was kind of a silly fast but . . .I mean, silly in that it basically means no eating During the mass.

 

[giuseppeTO]

Right, that’s my take on it too. But that means there is still a requirement to do penance every Friday just not necessarily abstinence from meat.

Pax Christi tecum.

Here is where the US Bishops have failed to pastor in respect to this point of Canon Law. I was in my teens when this change was introduced and we were told in a Catholic Jesuit High School that it was now OK to eat meat on Friday. There was no strong exhortation to either continue to do so, perform some other penitence (a laughable suggestion for a teen to come up with a meaningful alternative that he/she can stick to), or to treat Friday in a special way with an extra rosary or attendence at Mass.

Part of the beauty of the Catholic Church stems from its teaching authority, which is absolute, meaninging we don’t have to read scripture and determine on our own what is meant - the Church provides that teaching and we are obgligated to accept Her teaching.

So the fact that anyone would need to read pronouncements from the USCCB to understand our Friday obligations is ludicrous. That every Catholic today does not know of our Canon obligation to treat Fridays with a penitential observance that differs from Mon-Sat represents that failure of the Bishops and the priests under their incardination.

I would bet that if you lined up 100 folks after Mass and asked of those who eat meat on Friday why they do, 99 would say “because it’s no longer a law of the Church” rather than “because I have chosen to observe Friday with a different food or penitence as allow by my Bishop”. This isn’t the fault of the people … its a negligance of the pulpit.

 

[giuseppeTO]

strugglingalong;4057753:

As it stands, you could almost be eating something in the car on the way if Mass lasts an hour or more! Is that really a fast?QUOTE]

Exactly. As long as you chew and swallow before entering the Church you pretty much make your hour. That’s a cinch. “…no eating in the pews…” I always thought it was kind of a silly fast but . . .I mean, silly in that it basically means no eating During the mass.

A Pope once said that our body should be an empty tomb to receive the Body of the Risen Christ.

This is another one you can file in the category “What was OK for my parents, grandparents, saints, and martyrs is too hard/inconvenient for the Modern Me”

It is much more convenient to be burping Big Macs in the priest’s face as I receive the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[jmcrae]

strugglingalong;4057753:

As it stands, you could almost be eating something in the car on the way if Mass lasts an hour or more! Is that really a fast?QUOTE]

Exactly. As long as you chew and swallow before entering the Church you pretty much make your hour. That’s a cinch. “…no eating in the pews…” I always thought it was kind of a silly fast but . . .I mean, silly in that it basically means no eating During the mass.

You guys must have really long Masses!

For a week-day Mass, the safest thing is to begin my fast about an hour before the start of Mass, because the Liturgy of the Eucharist can start as shortly as ten minutes into the Mass.

For most Sunday Masses, I safely have up to about half an hour prior to the start of Mass.

 

[Lhhs]

Lhhs;4063832:

as shortly as ten minutes into the Mass.

Oh, sure, by those standards, ours are Really Long.

 

[Lhhs]

This isn’t the fault of the people … its a negligance of the pulpit.
.

I’m not sure about this though. Because I do ask Friday Meat-Eaters about this.
If I say anything out Friday/Meat/Catholic, they say Catholics can eat meat on Fridays now.
If I remark that seems odd that Friday is a penitential day, etc., etc., they say, Oh, we can do a different penance on Fridays if we eat meat.
If I say, Oh, I see, what kinds of things do people do instead? (do you do instead, etc.)
The answer is always . . basically that they do nothing. . .but that you can now eat meat on Fridays.

I think instead of saying We opt out of Friday penance . . .they say We can eat meat on Fridays now.

It’s a semantics thing. Say one thing, mean another.

I am just sharing that the Catholics I know who choose to eat meat on Fridays know they are supposed to do a different Friday Penance and just choose not to. And there is always a very “so what” attitude about it. No consequences, so no biggie?

 

[giuseppeTO]

I’m not sure about this though. Because I do ask Friday Meat-Eaters about this.
If I say anything out Friday/Meat/Catholic, they say Catholics can eat meat on Fridays now.
If I remark that seems odd that Friday is a penitential day, etc., etc., they say, Oh, we can do a different penance on Fridays if we eat meat.
If I say, Oh, I see, what kinds of things do people do instead? (do you do instead, etc.)
The answer is always . . basically that they do nothing. . .but that you can now eat meat on Fridays.

I think instead of saying We opt out of Friday penance . . .they say We can eat meat on Fridays now.

It’s a semantics thing. Say one thing, mean another.

I am just sharing that the Catholics I know who choose to eat meat on Fridays know they are supposed to do a different Friday Penance and just choose not to. And there is always a very “so what” attitude about it. No consequences, so no biggie?

My experience on this is different. There may be some who were around for “the change” but of those born after 1970, most in my experience do not even know that Fridays have a significant meaning in the life of the church (except for Good Friday, of course). So its not being taught in Catholic schools and it’s not reinforced from the pulpit. Can you remember the last time you heard a sermon that reminded the faithful that they are oblidged to do a faithful penitential act each Friday?

 

[strugglingalong]

My experience on this is different. There may be some who were around for “the change” but of those born after 1970, most in my experience do not even know that Fridays have a significant meaning in the life of the church (except for Good Friday, of course). So its not being taught in Catholic schools and it’s not reinforced from the pulpit. Can you remember the last time you heard a sermon that reminded the faithful that they are oblidged to do a faithful penitential act each Friday?

I know. I agree. It’s so very sad

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[Joe_5859]

I’m really not sure what this thread is supposed to be asking. It seems like the OP answered his own question in the first post.

I just don’t see how a Bishops conference can nullify Canon Law? Is that possible?

Pax Christi tecum.

I’m not sure why you keep using the terminology “nullify Canon Law”. I don’t think the USCCB is doing this at all. Canon Law is not always clear-cut, and there are many instances where things are deferred to the local bishops’ conferences. This is one of those areas.

I’d also be cautious about using terminology such as that all Catholics are required to abstain from something under pain of mortal sin. First, it seems that not all canon lawyers agree on this point. Second, the majority of Catholics (even relatively devout Catholics) have absolutely no idea that they are supposed to do anything on Fridays outside of Lent. If they are unaware of this requirement, it’s not quite accurate to speak of them committing mortal sin.

In regards to the fast before Mass, I’m in favor of going with what the Church says and trying to catechize people about that. I think it would be a hard sell to change it back, and many would probably just ignore it. Not that it isn’t a good pious thing to do if you feel so called.

 

[strugglingalong]

I’m not sure why you keep using the terminology “nullify Canon Law”. I don’t think the USCCB is doing this at all. Canon Law is not always clear-cut, and there are many instances where things are deferred to the local bishops’ conferences. This is one of those areas.

Yes, Canon Law says the Conference’s can make substitutions and apply it but I don’t think they can nullify it - which means the Canon stays in force just its application can be altered by the Conferences. But many people think the requirement to penance was done away with and it was not.

I’d also be cautious about using terminology such as that all Catholics are required to abstain from something under pain of mortal sin. First, it seems that not all canon lawyers agree on this point. Second, the majority of Catholics (even relatively devout Catholics) have absolutely no idea that they are supposed to do anything on Fridays outside of Lent. If they are unaware of this requirement, it’s not quite accurate to speak of them committing mortal sin.

If they are unaware, they are ignorant and may not be guilty of mortal sin but that doesn’t mean that to not follow the Canon, when you know, is a mortal sin.

In regards to the fast before Mass, I’m in favor of going with what the Church says and trying to catechize people about that. I think it would be a hard sell to change it back, and many would probably just ignore it. Not that it isn’t a good pious thing to do if you feel so called.

Well I think we can discuss what is best. It’s sad to think it was so easy to change, since it was easier for people since it isn’t really a fast at all now, but so difficult to change back since people don’t want to make sacrifices. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be changed though. It may be best.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[giuseppeTO]

I think it would be a hard sell to change it back.

Joe,

You might be surprised. As someone who grew up in the 50’s and 60’s (I was a teen at the time of the Council), I remember a feeling of disappointment when we were told we didn’t have to abstain from meat anymore the fast was reduced from 3 to 1 hour. My overall “teen” impression was that the Church had it wrong for a millenia and was now correcting itself (and maybe there were a bunch of other things She had wrong that were also being corrected). Surprisingly, my Protestant buddies seem to have gotten it right. They persistently badgered me about the silly abstinance rules with no biblical foundation and now we even changed our Mass to look a lot like (if not exactly like) theirs. I certainly felt mildly betrayed - but remained thoroughlly Catholic. Or a mediocre Catholic at least - attending Sunday Mass, getting there late, leaving early, indulging in all kinds of impure entertainment. But never going to Confession - I never thought any of my sins were grave (I never killed anybody).

I never knew there was sort of an underground Traditional movement that perserved the discarded rules, regs, devotions, and Mass until, quite by accident, I ended up one Sunday by mere coincidence at a TLM and learned that there were many folks who still held to these forsaken practices.

Once exposed to all this, I easily accepted all of the old fasts, abstinences, devotions (especially to the rosary), etc. I typically follow the original midnight fast before Communion - what a special spirit that puts one in!

There are many 50 year olds like me - and many much younger who, once they discover the beauty of sacrifice and penance, welcome it with open arms.

 

[strugglingalong]

Once exposed to all this, I easily accepted all of the old fasts, abstinences, devotions (especially to the rosary), etc. I typically follow the original midnight fast before Communion - what a special spirit that puts one in!

There are many 50 year olds like me - and many much younger who, once they discover the beauty of sacrifice and penance, welcome it with open arms.

Count me in, I’m 31 and have discovered the beauty of sacrifice and penance and welcome it with open arms. It has enriched my life and helped me to love and adore and follow Our Lord ever closer.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[giuseppeTO]

Count me in, I’m 31 and have discovered the beauty of sacrifice and penance and welcome it with open arms. It has enriched my life and helped me to love and adore and follow Our Lord ever closer.

Pax Christi tecum.

Great Strugg!

And just to take it a step further, it has taken the better part of a decade but our “reversion” to all of the traditional customs has completely turned me, my wife, and our 5 children around to a deep devotion to Our Lady and The Sacred Heart. We attend daily Mass and attend every devotion our church offers including Exposition and weekly Benediction. And it had nothing to do with a charismatic leader, a great pastor, or a beautiful church (as you know, in the SSPX we are frequently relegated to asisting at Mass in basements and broom closets). It is all about the graces that flow from the Traditional prayers and penance and the lack of that spirit, IMHO, more than anything else, that has caused the mass exodus from the church since the Council.

 

[strugglingalong]

Great Strugg!

And just to take it a step further, it has taken the better part of a decade but our “reversion” to all of the traditional customs has completely turned me, my wife, and our 5 children around to a deep devotion to Our Lady and The Sacred Heart. We attend daily Mass and attend every devotion our church offers including Exposition and weekly Benediction. And it had nothing to do with a charismatic leader, a great pastor, or a beautiful church (as you know, in the SSPX we are frequently relegated to asisting at Mass in basements and broom closets). It is all about the graces that flow from the Traditional prayers and penance and the lack of that spirit, IMHO, more than anything else, that has caused the mass exodus from the church since the Council.

I agree 100%. Praise God for all He is doing in your family! That’s great!

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I typically follow the original midnight fast before Communion - what a special spirit that puts one in!

Especially if you attend the Vigil Mass.

 

[giuseppeTO]

Especially if you attend the Vigil Mass.

Yes, if there were such a thing as the Novus Ordo Saturday night golf Mass in the EF, it would be quite a testimonial to fast for it. Of course the Muslims fast from sun up to sun down during their holy season but they are surely made of stronger stuff.