Friday Abstinence; Obligation?

[Bookcat]

The post on the USCCB website that I noted above:

* Fridays Throughout the Year—In memory of Christ's suffering and death, the Church prescribes making each Friday throughout the year a penitential day. All of us are urged to prepare appropriately for that weekly Easter that comes with each Sunday.

usccb.org/doctrine/penitential.shtml

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

You if i dont want to do something I can normally find a way to get the words to say I don’t have to do it.

 

[Lampo]

You if i dont want to do something I can normally find a way to get the words to say I don’t have to do it.

What makes you think Jimmy Akin doesn’t want to do a Friday penance? This is crazy. Is it a requirement or not? If I tell my Mom that the Church no longer requires Catholics to do some type of penance on Fridays, am I telling her the truth?

 

[jmcrae]

What makes you think Jimmy Akin doesn’t want to do a Friday penance?

I don’t think he is thinking of the practical side at all. He is just parsing words, and taking the meaning out of them, without considering the consequences.

This is crazy. Is it a requirement or not? If I tell my Mom that the Church no longer requires Catholics to do some type of penance on Fridays, am I telling her the truth?

We still ought to do penance on Fridays.

It is included in the Fourth Precept. (You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church.) Friday is a day of abstinence established by the Church.

The part that is optional is, you can pick what penance you want to do on Fridays outside of Lent. Penance itself is not optional - we are supposed to be doing something.

But that’s not the same thing as mandating it.

And again - we are to obey as we obey our mothers. If your mother says, “Would you please …” in a sweet tone of voice, do you say, “Oh, she is giving me the choice; therefore, I don’t really have to do it.”

No one who loves his mother would think seriously about disobeying her, though, even though the language and tone seems as if you have the choice. She is not using this language to give you the option of not doing it, but so that when you do it, it will be because you love her.

But God help you if for some reason you don’t do it.

I’d hardly call Jimmy Akin an enemy.

No, what I meant was that Jimmy is treating the Bishops as enemies (What can I get away with) rather than as loved ones (How can I best please them?)

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

What makes you think Jimmy Akin doesn’t want to do a Friday penance? This is crazy. Is it a requirement or not? If I tell my Mom that the Church no longer requires Catholics to do some type of penance on Fridays, am I telling her the truth?

I am not saying he does not want to I am saying that He said Rome said you are to do penemce on Friday’s and that the US bishops have said that in place of abstainence you may choose another form. At that point you have to decide for yourself.

Neither I nor Mr. Atkins can make the decission for you. You have the info, what Come from the Church is that abstainance for meat on all friday is the norm. From the US bishops you have that one can choose to pick some other form of penence.

I am not sure how it can be more clear. If you are to ask why we are given the choice of different penence then I can say how much penence is it for a vegitairian to not meat meat on friday? that is why the choice.

 

[Bookcat]

I am saying that He said Rome said you are to do penemce on Friday’s and that the US bishops have said that in place of abstainence you may choose another form. At that point you have to decide for yourself.

He is actually NOT saying that. He is saying that there is no obligation in the US! (outside of Lent and Good Friday)

He is saying that in the US one need not do any penance on other Fridays…

(though one is still urged to do so…)

That is his argument. And what he states the Document of Bishops of the US is saying.

 

[Lampo]

I don’t think he is thinking of the practical side at all. He is just parsing words, and taking the meaning out of them, without considering the consequences.

He has no axe to grind here. Why would he parse his words to convey there is no Friday penance mandate? Why does it matter one way or the other to him? If there was an obligation, he’d say so.

We still ought to do penance on Fridays.

I agree.

It is included in the Fourth Precept. (You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church.)

I think you are wrong. The Fourth Precept is mandating *fasting *and abstinence.
We’re talking about a Friday penance. Not necessarily in the form of a fast or abstinence.

Friday is a day of abstinence established by the Church.

During Lent only.

The part that is optional is, you can pick what penance you want to do on Fridays outside of Lent. Penance itself is not optional - we are supposed to be doing something.

Not to Jimmy Akin’s or my interpretation of the USCCB document.

No, what I meant was that Jimmy is treating the Bishops as enemies (What can I get away with) rather than as loved ones (How can I best please them?)

I think you are totally wrong. Does Jimmy have a history in any other area of the faith in disagreeing with the Bishops on official Church teaching? Why would he with a mandated Friday penance? Makes no sense.

Again, if I tell my Mom that we are not required to do a penance on Fridays outside of Lent, would I be telling her the truth? According to Jimmy’s article on this website, I’d be telling her the truth.

 

[Lampo]

I am not saying he does not want to I am saying that He said Rome said you are to do penemce on Friday’s and that the US bishops have said that in place of abstainence you may choose another form. At that point you have to decide for yourself.

Please read post #39. He is saying the exact opposite.

 

[jmcrae]

He has no axe to grind here. Why would he parse his words to convey there is no Friday penance mandate? Why does it matter one way or the other to him? If there was an obligation, he’d say so.

I’m not sure that he knows. Remember, he is a lay person just like you or me, with similar education. He has no special credentials.

Not to Jimmy Akin’s or my interpretation of the USCCB document.

I’m not completely sure why his interpretation ought to be considered authoritative.

I think you are totally wrong. Does Jimmy have a history in any other area of the faith in disagreeing with the Bishops on official Church teaching?

Actually, I disagree with him in his interpretations of at least two other rules; one concerning the Eucharistic fast, and another concerning the Sacrament of Reconciliation. There are probably others, as well.

Again, if I tell my Mom that we are not required to do a penance on Fridays outside of Lent, would I be telling her the truth? According to Jimmy’s article on this website, I’d be telling her the truth.

Why do you feel the need to tell your Mom anything? Let her continue to practice penance on Fridays - even if it’s “not required” (clearly debatable) it can do no harm.

 

[Bookcat]

I’m not sure that he knows. Remember, he is a lay person just like you or me, with similar education. He has no special credentials.

Actually he has very good credentials…such as being the Senior Apologist at Catholic Answers …as well as simply his reputation in theological circles.

(I would add too that we also need to be very careful to avoid always even any hint of clericalism…not that you were intending any…but it is good to add)

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Please read post #39. He is saying the exact opposite.

Please explain how this is the exact opposite.

“Ultimately, the Code means what Rome says it means, and Rome confirmed On Penance and Abstinence, thus making it the law for Latin Catholics in the United States.”

To me from what I read he is saying is that when all is said and done do what Rome has said. Which is by the way all fridays ( except for solemnities) are days of penence.

 

[Lampo]

Please explain how this is the exact opposite.

When he says these words: "Thus no obligation is created."

"…there appears to be no legal obligation in the United States to practice penance on Friday."

"Legal obligations do not exist if they are not legislated."

**"…without indicating that a legal obligation to do penance continues to exist on typical Fridays of the year." **

 

[Lampo]

To me from what I read he is saying is that when all is said and done do what Rome has said. Which is by the way all fridays ( except for solemnities) are days of penence.

He is actually NOT saying that. He is saying that there is no obligation in the US! (outside of Lent and Good Friday)

He is saying that in the US one need not do any penance on other Fridays…

(though one is still urged to do so…)

That is his argument. And what he states the Document of Bishops of the US is saying.
(taken from Bookcat - hope you don’t mind)

 

[Lampo]

Why do you feel the need to tell your Mom anything? Let her continue to practice penance on Fridays - even if it’s “not required” (clearly debatable) it can do no harm.

Because the truth is good to know. I say do penance on Fridays but know that it is not mandatory(except during Lent).

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

He is actually NOT saying that. He is saying that there is no obligation in the US! (outside of Lent and Good Friday)

He is saying that in the US one need not do any penance on other Fridays…

(though one is still urged to do so…)

That is his argument. And what he states the Document of Bishops of the US is saying.
(taken from Bookcat - hope you don’t mind)

Then He is wrong. The Church says there is.

 

[thistle]

Then He is wrong. The Church says there is.

Where does the Church say its a sin of grave matter not to do some form of penance on Fridays outside Lent? Not performing an obligation is a sin of grave matter.

By the way, I have always understood there to be a Friday obligation but cannot find Church documentation supporting my view.
Jimmy Akin, on the other hand, does not believe there is an obligation and he is able to refer to canon law and other Church sources to back up his claim.

Anyway, I’ve emailed Jimmy Akin for clarification on what he is saying although it seems clear to me he is saying that there is no obligation.

 

[Lampo]

Anyway, I’ve emailed Jimmy Akin for clarification on what he is saying although it seems clear to me he is saying that there is no obligation.

Would you be sure and share his response with us? I appreciate you contacting him.

 

[Bookcat]

Not performing an obligation is a sin of grave matter.

Just to clarify this one line (prob. ya typed too fast or were meaning blowing off Lent or something)…some obligations are grave matters…some obligations are venial matter…(even in terms of the Penitential discipline some things are grave and others venial…)

 

[Elizabeth502]

It is not necessary to consult with Jimmy Akin when the US Conference of Catholic Bishops have written at least two documents on the subject. In summary, the discipline has shifted from abstinence per se to penance, in the tradition of Christians and Catholics for many centuries. The penance is a recommendation, not a requirement (an obligation or a commandment). It is encouraged for growth in the spiritual life as a Christian.

The following document was reprinted from an earlier statement by the USCCB and can be found at:

www.usccb.org/Lent/2007/Penance_and_Abstinence.pdf

1. Accordingly, since the spirit of penance primarily suggests that we discipline ourselves in that which we enjoy most, to many in our day abstinence from meat no longer implies penance, while renunciation of other things would be more penitential.
2. For these and related reasons, the Catholic bishops of the United States, far from downgrading the traditional penitential observance of Friday, and motivated precisely by the desire to give the spirit of penance greater vitality, especially on Fridays, the day that Jesus died, urge our Catholic people henceforth to be guided by the following norms.
3. Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observancethroughout the year, a time when those who seek perfection will be mindful of their personal sins and the sins of mankind which they are called upon to help expiate in union with Christ Crucified.
4. Friday should be in each week something of what Lent is in the entire year. For this reason we urge all to prepare for that weekly Easter that comes with each Sunday by freely making of every Friday a day of self-denial and mortification in prayerful remembrance of the passion of Jesus Christ.
5. Among the works of voluntary self-denial and personal penance which we especially commend to our people for the future observance of Friday, even though we hereby terminate the traditional law of abstinence binding under pain of sin, as the sole prescribed means of observing Friday, we give first place to abstinence from flesh meat.
   We do so in the hope that the Catholic community will ordinarily continue to abstain from meat by free choice as formerly we did in obedience to Church law.

1. Every Catholic Christian understands that the fast and abstinence regulations admit of change, unlike the commandments and precepts of that unchanging divine moral law which the Church must today and always defend as immutable. This said, we emphasize that our people are henceforth free from the obligation traditionally binding under pain of sin in what pertains to Friday abstinence, except as noted above for Lent. We stress this so that “no” scrupulosity will enter into examinations of conscience, confessions, or personal decisions on this point.
2. Perhaps we should warn those who decide to keep the Friday abstinence for reasons of personal piety and special love that they must not pass judgment on those who elect to
   substitute other penitential observances.

 

[Elizabeth502]

And in a different document:

www.usccb.org/doctrine/penitential.shtml

Fridays Throughout the Year—In memory of Christ’s suffering and death, the Church prescribes making each Friday throughout the year a penitential day. All of us are urged to prepare appropriately for that weekly Easter that comes with each Sunday.

Forms of Penance

Prayer—In prayer, we encounter and walk with God. During the Lenten season, we are encouraged to make opportunities for individual and common prayer. Opportunities for prayer can include attending Mass, praying the liturgy of the hours, praying within the family, visiting a chapel, prayerfully reading the Bible, reciting the rosary, or praying before the Blessed Sacrament.

Fasting—By refraining from eating, we signify our oneness with the Lord, acknowledge our need for conversion, and give witness to our solidarity with those less fortunate. Catholics who are eighteen years and older and in good health are bound until their fifty-ninth birthday by the obligation to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Traditionally, the canonical obligation of fasting has been understood in the Church as the taking of only one full meal a day.

Almsgiving—This penitential practice entails giving money or other resources for the benefit of those in need. One possible source of this money is that which has been saved from fasting or other means of self-denial.

Abstinence—In the United States, this penitential practice consists of refraining from the consumption of meat. The Latin Church’s requirement of abstinence binds Catholics after they have celebrated their fourteenth birthday, and it is practiced on Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, and the Fridays during Lent. Pastors and parents are encouraged to see that children who are not bound by the obligation to fast and abstain are led to appreciate an authentic sense of penance.

The Practice of Charity “Which Covers a Multitude of Sins” (1 Pt 4:8)—Motivated by love for God and for one’s neighbor, we express solicitude through various works for those who are in need, especially the poor, the sick, the underprivileged, the aged, the lonely, the imprisoned, the discouraged, the bedridden, and the overburdened.

Works of Mercy—Through charitable actions (see p. 7) we express compassionate care for others by easing their burdens and attending to their bodily and spiritual needs.

Penitential Rite at Mass—This is part of the Introductory Rite of the Mass, following the entrance song and greeting, and preceding the Gloria and opening prayer. The rite’s invitation to repentance enables us to express readiness to hear the Word of God, celebrate the Eucharist, and receive the Eucharist with a humble and contrite spirit.

Eucharistic Fast—The eucharistic fast is an ancient custom whereby we prepare to receive holy communion and thereby show due reverence for the sacrament. Latin Catholics who are in good health are required to abstain from any food or drink, with the exceptions of water and medicine, for at least one hour before receiving holy communion.

Asceticism—The practice of asceticism is a discipline based on self-control and self-denial that helps an individual or a community attain spiritual goals. This discipline is exercised with the aim of achieving greater freedom for self-giving in love. In this way, we seek to imitate the self-emptying of Christ.

Mortification—In general terms, mortification refers to the radical self-denial and wholehearted giving of oneself to God that Jesus called for when he told his disciples, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me” (Mt 16:24). More specifically, mortification is a form of ascetic discipline that involves denial of some kind of enjoyment in order to gain a greater detachment from one’s desires. The goal of mortification is fullness of life, not death—freedom, not enslavement.

Sacrifices—Joining ourselves to Christ’s sacrifice, we freely give up time, energy, leisure, and other goods for the sake of others.

Examination of Conscience—Through this prayerful and reflective process, we review the state of our spiritual health and identify those areas of our lives and of our relationships where we are not acting in a truly Christian manner and where reform is needed. Christians are encouraged to make a brief examination of conscience before retiring for the night.

Spiritual Direction—Under the guidance of a spiritual director, a person is led to a deeper understanding of his or her relationship with God. Personal weaknesses and strengths are identified in view of their effect on spiritual growth.

Stations of the Cross—This popular devotional practice was developed in order to permit those who could not make a pilgrimage to the Holy Land to follow in the steps of Jesus along his journey from judgment to burial. Catholics throughout the centuries have paused to pray the stations of the cross, especially during the Lenten season.

Pilgrimages as Signs of Penance—For centuries the Church has promoted the practice of pilgrimage as a means of atoning for sin and as an aid to personal conversion and holiness. Pilgrims, who journey to a specific holy place to commemorate a certain event, pause to reflect upon where they have been and where they are going along their journey in faith. Pilgrimages mirror symbolically the pilgrim nature of the Church, which is on a continuous journey to the new and heavenly Jerusalem.