Friend living with boyfriend

[Kithrus]

I really don’t see anything wrong with visiting them in their home. There are other ways to make it clear that you disaprove of their relationship without refusing to visit their home. Such as talking to your friend about it sometime, in a very charitable way where you make sure she will not think you are judging her personally, but rather only her action. Do that once and then don’t bring it up again and be sure to continue to show her that you still love her as a person even though you disagree with her action. When trying to figure out the fine line between true charity and being judgemental think about the distinction of judging her as a person versus judging her action while still clearly showing her that you love her as a person. If you can find a way to tell her that you think she is wrong to live with her boyfriends without her taking it as a judgement of herself as a person then you have found that elusive middle path of true charity. Oh, also, remember to pray for her and her boyfriend, that is an extremely important step. Good luck, I’m sorry you’re caught in such a difficult situation. :hug1:

Hold the phone there is nothing morally wrong with living with someone you love HOWEVER (and this is after I spoke with a canon lawyer on the subject) There is a greater risk of temptation. If two people have their own beds and are not sinning we have no right to chastise them.

Sometimes life is hard and things don’t work out as intended. I know of a couple that are getting married and because times are hard felt like they couldn’t support to live apart anymore.

Everyone they knew who was catholic immediately started banning the couple from attending events or visiting anywhere together. They were branded sinners and frankly cast out.

The priest (I spoke about before) I went to go see him and asked about it. He told me as long as they were being modest and chaste, sleeping apart and no sex then the community was in error to treat them so. To automatically assumed they were sinning was itself and injustice.

I went back to my parish and explained to them what our local canon lawyer priest said. Their first reaction was refusal then after a while it was reluctant acceptance which then collapse into some ‘holy mission’ to help them find new places to live. Now the paraish is trying to find student rooms for them to live apart in till the wedding.

the stupidity of this that my friend is still banished until he finds another place to live and its 7 months to the wedding.

1. where was that help before? 2) no one is going to sign a lease for 7 months

Point is everyone is being very unrealistic. They were told the truth from a reliable source and they put their own spin on it.

If they are not sinning we have no right to judge them. If you as Catholics didn’t want them living together then you should have many paid attention to the woes on one of your members who was in so much financial peril.

 

[JackieMom]

Hold the phone there is nothing morally wrong with living with someone you love HOWEVER (and this is after I spoke with a canon lawyer on the subject) There is a greater risk of temptation. If two people have their own beds and are not sinning we have no right to
The priest (I spoke about before) I went to go see him and asked about it. He told me as long as they were being modest and chaste, sleeping apart and no sex then the community was in error to treat them so. To automatically assumed they were sinning was itself and injustice.
.

I do not think this is true. As Catholics, it is our obligation to not give scandal. Living together with a romantic interest, even if no intercourse is occurring (which I think must be exceedingly rare), is giving scandal, has the appearance of serious impropriety and is, in fact, inappropriate.

It is still not okay to “shack up” with a romantic partner even if there is no sex. The fact is that it looks bad, gives a poor example and is an inferior way to start a marriage.

 

[Kithrus]

I do not think this is true. As Catholics, it is our obligation to not give scandal. Living together with a romantic interest, even if no intercourse is occurring (which I think must be exceedingly rare), is giving scandal, has the appearance of serious impropriety and is, in fact, inappropriate.

It is still not okay to “shack up” with a romantic partner even if there is no sex. The fact is that it looks bad, gives a poor example and is an inferior way to start a marriage.

Did you miss the point about a Canon lawyer saying it was okay? A mans whose job is to study catholic law to the point where he can speak latin (and does he has a latin mass every sunday).

 

[thewanderer]

Hold the phone there is nothing morally wrong with living with someone you love HOWEVER (and this is after I spoke with a canon lawyer on the subject) There is a greater risk of temptation. If two people have their own beds and are not sinning we have no right to chastise them.

Sometimes life is hard and things don’t work out as intended. I know of a couple that are getting married and because times are hard felt like they couldn’t support to live apart anymore.

Everyone they knew who was catholic immediately started banning the couple from attending events or visiting anywhere together. They were branded sinners and frankly cast out.

The priest (I spoke about before) I went to go see him and asked about it. He told me as long as they were being modest and chaste, sleeping apart and no sex then the community was in error to treat them so. To automatically assumed they were sinning was itself and injustice.

I went back to my parish and explained to them what our local canon lawyer priest said. Their first reaction was refusal then after a while it was reluctant acceptance which then collapse into some ‘holy mission’ to help them find new places to live. Now the paraish is trying to find student rooms for them to live apart in till the wedding.

the stupidity of this that my friend is still banished until he finds another place to live and its 7 months to the wedding.

1. where was that help before? 2) no one is going to sign a lease for 7 months

Point is everyone is being very unrealistic. They were told the truth from a reliable source and they put their own spin on it.

If they are not sinning we have no right to judge them. If you as Catholics didn’t want them living together then you should have many paid attention to the woes on one of your members who was in so much financial peril.

Its funny that you should bring up that living together is not necessarily sinful, as I have pointed that out on this board multiple times in the past. I have even counselled one person to have his girlfriend move in with him if there was truly no other option for housing for her because it was imperative that his girlfriend get out of the situation she was then in. However, you are not quite correct in saying that the only problem with a ccouple living together is if they are sinning sexually. The 3 problems are

1. Actual sin (ie sex outside of marriage/sins of lust etc)
2. Near occasion of sin
3. Causing scandal

1 is pretty clear. As for 2, yes, living together is not always a near occasion of sin for a couple, but it is very often so. And while 3 is of coursse not talkking about the ‘scandal’ of people being shocked that someone would do something they think is sinful which is often followed by the kind of sinful judgement you brought up in your post, but is rather a matter of helping to lead others into sin because of your example.

You are right that I was not careful to caution that it is possible that they have just reasons for living together and that they might actually be in a situation where living together is not sinful, but it at least seems clear that if nothing else they are not avoiding scandal because if they were the OP, their close friend, would know that there was nothing sexual going on. While there are situations where one is justified to live together even with a risk of scandal (the lower the better) the reason for them living together needs to be appropriate to the risk of causing scandal and the couple needs to do everything they can to avoid causing said scandal by doing what they can to make it clear that they are not involved in a sexual way. The fact that one of the two is Catholic makes it even more likely for there to be scandal, because then people can look at them and think to themselves “well, look at that, if even the Catholics are having sex outside marriage then it must be ok, times have changed and people have now seen that it actually **is **ok to have sex outside marriage”. The fact that pretty much everyone assumes a romantically involved couple that lives with each other are having sex means that it is really hard for such a couple to avoid causing scandal and so they better have a pretty darn good reason to be living with each other as opposed to living with other friends. If money is an issue then they should find other friends/family they can live with if it is at all possible. And even if they can’t they should be looking for a way to change their living arrangement if at all possible. (Not to mention that it is a really bad sign if they don’t have a good enough support system where they are that they can’t find someone who will help them rearrange their living situation)

So yes, the OP should be aware that there is a possibility that her friend is in one of those extreme situations where there really is no alternative living situation for this couple and that they are still living chastely, but it is unlikely that this is the case. Also, you are right to point out that people need to avoid being judgemental, that is why in my post I tried to help find a way to differentiate between judgement, true charity, and false charity. The key is to tell the truth in such a way that ones friend does not feel as though they are being judged as a person, but rather realize that they are truly loved as a person, but that rather it is their action which is being judged. I truly don’t understand why you thought that I was somehow ecouraging people to be judgemental because that is exactly what I was trying to avoid.

 

[JackieMom]

Did you miss the point about a Canon lawyer saying it was okay? A mans whose job is to study catholic law to the point where he can speak latin (and does he has a latin mass every sunday).

With charity, I do not believe that a righteous cannon lawyer said that living together with a romantic partner is “okay” as long as there is no sex occurring. Because our catechism warns against causing scandal.

I am not sure what you mean by “does he has a Latin Mass every Sunday.” Do you mean he attends a Latin Mass? So? What is this lawyer’s name?

 

[Kithrus]

With charity, I do not believe that a righteous cannon lawyer said that living together with a romantic partner is “okay” as long as there is no sex occurring. Because our catechism warns against causing scandal.

I am not sure what you mean by “does he has a Latin Mass every Sunday.” Do you mean he attends a Latin Mass? So? What is this lawyer’s name?

He is a priest and the chancellery to our diocese he ultimately and (comically) is also the person who signs off on marriages in the dioceses anyway.

Now I’m not saying its ‘blanket okay’. He said that in the case provided it was okay as there were no alternatives that wouldn’t jeopardizes peoples well being.

Also scandal is a two edge sword. Mary a virgin Templar sworn only married as it was bad form and unsafe for a women to live alone. She wasn’t expected to have sex as she was sworn to God.

Imagine if you will the public reaction when she is now with child.

Father said it was okay because there was no other option. If you can’t accept that well that’s one thing but if you can you have no right to judge the couple.

 

[nodito]

I’ve never liked the “Jesus dined with sinners” argument in favor of offering or accepting hospitality of couples who are living immoral lifestyles. Jesus was demonstrating forgiveness and compassion in an era in which sinners were frequently killed or shunned for their sins. He needed to show mercy. Today, we’re at the opposite end of the reaction spectrum. Our society is all too eager to overlook even gravely immoral lifestyles in the name of tolerance, and I believe that accepting or offering hospitality in these situations does not demonstrate compassion so much as approval.

I think Monicad’s answer, as usual, shows a great deal of wisdom. If it were me, I’d decline visiting their home and instead ask to meet at a coffee shop or local park.

 

[Kelfa28]

There are situations that bear mentioning.

Mine is one.

My husband and I had been living together for almost 2 years before we became engaged. We were encouraged to move in together…both families helped with the move. We had no idea what we were doing was wrong.

When we got engaged and seriously started talking about RCIA…that was when we learned that living together was a sin.

My husband told our Priest and Parish director that there was no way he was kicking me out. Our wedding was only 8 months away. We were ready to stay totally chaste until our wedding night.

And we did without incident or any near occasion of sin.

We started RCIA about a month after our engagement and were received into the Church about a month before we got married.

I don’t think there is an issue visiting friends who are living together and not married. You have no idea what their situation is.
I would have been hurt and taken aback if someone did that to me…despite my steps to rectify the situation.

But…if you truly feel uncomfortable…then don’t go. Hang out with them somewhere else…at another friend’s house perhaps.

 

[Lady_Love]

You have to meet people where they are at. Instead of putting a barrier between you and your friend by avoiding her home, go visit her. Jesus didn’t stay in heaven and say, “I’m going to wait until everyone straighten’s their act out before I become man and dwell with them.”

Instead of being her judge, why don’t you just be her friend. You don’t know what has led up to her living with her boyfriend. She may have abandonment fears, she may not have the knowledge that you do, she may not be able to afford to live/survive on her own, or she may have grown up in an abusive home and had to leave to find safety or she just doesn’t have much love for herself. I will tell you, if you really are concerned for your friend, you will not approach the issue of living with her boyfriend without helping her find a way out such as offering her a place to live and the security of your friendship, that you will not leave her alone. I used to hate it when someone would convict me of sin and leave me there without a helping hand. When I was young I lived with my boyfriend and many were quick to accuse me and convict me but none of them offered to take me in.

I had to move in with my husband before we were married, with permission from the priest. We both lost our jobs in the same month but we stayed in separate rooms and remained chaste.