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ringil
Guest
Well canonizations are infallible pronouncements so we are obliged to accept them.
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powerofk
Guest
Every saint for the past several hundred years has had detractors. There are many, even today, who believe that Pope St. John Paul II should have never been canonized, primarily because of how he handled the abuse scandal that broke on his watch.
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anon67074017
Guest
Are you saying that she should not be a saint because she was against fascist Spain?
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Exiled_Child
Guest
Yep, I completely, 100% agree. When the question comes up, and I’m pressed for an answer by non-Catholics, I identify as socialist. When I talk with Catholics, though, in real life I mean, I say what you just said. Socialism is kind of a pale and feeble restatement of the Gospels, but it’s either/or, because some people will only understand one term and not the other.
Basically, I think the best political policies and decisions are whatever’s closest to Christianity.
Oh, and I also hope that Dorothy is one day made a Saint; I really love her and everything she stands for.
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Emperor_Markus
Guest
Why did she oppose the Vietnam War?
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MomaMary8
Guest
I’ll be honest. It’s hard for me to get past the abortion. Her own child murderd. I know our Lord forgives, and judgment is up to Him. He offers salvation to all. I pray she has been forgiven and is with our Lord. BUT whenever I think of her, I think of a dead, murdered child. Ripped apart. I think of the dark taint left upon the soul by anyone who sins even just a bit and then I wonder how long must we be in purgatory to have that sin expunged? Any sin is an offense to God. 
I think of her dead child and I get sick to my stomach. I honestly do. I know our Lord forgives. I am not judging if she has been saved. I leave that to God. But, her actions on Earth physically make me ill. My stomach churns. I cannot reflect on her life and feel uplifted. She does not bring my mind and spirit up. I’m sure it would help some realize their sins are forgivable, but we have other ways to show that. The bloody sacrifice for one.
Forgive me if I sound judgmental. I have held a dead 20 week gestational baby in my hands. I can’t get past that cold lifeless body and how precious each child is. Abortion is so evil.
I really don’t know how to take this step.
I think of her dead child and I get sick to my stomach. I honestly do. I know our Lord forgives. I am not judging if she has been saved. I leave that to God. But, her actions on Earth physically make me ill. My stomach churns. I cannot reflect on her life and feel uplifted. She does not bring my mind and spirit up.
I’m sure it would help some realize their sins are forgivable, but we have other ways to show that. The bloody sacrifice for one.Forgive me if I sound judgmental. I have held a dead 20 week gestational baby in my hands. I can’t get past that cold lifeless body and how precious each child is. Abortion is so evil.
I really don’t know how to take this step.
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powerofk
Guest
She had the abortion before her baptism. Remember, baptism forgives all sins. As such, we can only look at her life after baptism to determine whether her life was worthy of sainthood.I’ll be honest. It’s hard for me to get past the abortion. Her own child murderd. I know our Lord forgives, and judgment is up to Him. He offers salvation to all. I pray she has been forgiven and is with our Lord. BUT whenever I think of her, I think of a dead, murdered child. Ripped apart. I think of the dark taint left upon the soul by anyone who sins even just a bit and then I wonder how long must we be in purgatory to have that sin expunged? Any sin is an offense to God.
I think of her dead child and I get sick to my stomach. I honestly do. I know our Lord forgives. I am not judging if she has been saved. I leave that to God. But, her actions on Earth physically make me ill. My stomach churns. I cannot reflect on her life and feel uplifted. She does not bring my mind and spirit up.
Forgive me if I sound judgmental. I have held a dead 20 week gestational baby in my hands. I can’t get past that cold lifeless body and how precious each child is. Abortion is so evil.
I really don’t know how to take this step.
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MomaMary8
Guest
I know. I believe in the powerful Grace granted in baptism. I can only see the sadness of sin, though. I can’t get past the mental image of the dead baby. I can’t, and I’m sorry to admit it.
I will pray for her though, and all who have had an abortion. Such sadness.
I do have a theological question, then. Baptism forgives us our sins, original and actual. But what of the temporal punishment?
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Bonnie
Guest
I’m very glad that it is a merciful God who is judging us & not you. If you were judging me I’d never have a chance at heaven.I’ll be honest. It’s hard for me to get past the abortion. Her own child murderd. I know our Lord forgives, and judgment is up to Him. He offers salvation to all. I pray she has been forgiven and is with our Lord. BUT whenever I think of her, I think of a dead, murdered child. Ripped apart. I think of the dark taint left upon the soul by anyone who sins even just a bit and then I wonder how long must we be in purgatory to have that sin expunged? Any sin is an offense to God.
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JPUSC
Guest
Well…I’m very glad that it is a merciful God who is judging us & not you. If you were judging me I’d never have a chance at heaven.
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anon67074017
Guest
I would advise you to stop being so judgmental of other people’s souls. You are not the judge. God is the eternal judge.
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Robyn_p
Guest
Baptism also eliminates the temporal punishment of sin.I know. I believe in the powerful Grace granted in baptism. I can only see the sadness of sin, though. I can’t get past the mental image of the dead baby. I can’t, and I’m sorry to admit it.
I will pray for her though, and all who have had an abortion. Such sadness.
I do have a theological question, then. Baptism forgives us our sins, original and actual. But what of the temporal punishment?
As for the baby, while it is a terrible crime, the baby’s soul is with God. And I’m sure when Day died her child was one of the first to welcome her home.
Remember, God is greater than our sins. He not only forgives them, he makes all things new. Her baby and all those lost to abortion will receive their bodies back, fully glorified, in the resurrection. That’s the awesome beauty of our Faith. Death and evil and sin do not have the last word. Love does.
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JPUSC
Guest
I didn’t judge anyone nor did I imply any judgment. Just posted the Church-approved message that is supposed to come from the Mother of God.
A bit unfair that a young person who probably committed sins not as grave as abortion would be in purgatory until the end of time versus other people.
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Bonnie
Guest
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Robyn_p
Guest
Everytime I hear someone mention what’s “fair” when it comes to who goes to heaven, I can’t help but think of this parable:
1*“For the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the market place; 4and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing; and he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ 7They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ 8And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’ 9And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. 11And on receiving it they grumbled at the householder, 12saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ 13But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14Take what belongs to you, and go; I choose to give to this last as I give to you. 15*Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’ ** 16So the last will be first, and the first last.” (Matt 20:1-15)
We really can’t complain or tell God what to do. Fatima is approved, but that doesn’t mean that the Church endorses everything it says. It’s possible that Lucia exaggerated.
But either way, we know that baptism washes away the temporal punishment for sin as well as eternal, so Day would not have had to suffer in purgatory for that.
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MomaMary8
Guest
I’m sorry you think I was being judgmental. I was trying not to be judgmental, but honest about my reaction of Miss Day. If you re-read my post you will see I believe in God’s grace. I was honestly posting about the emotional reaction I have when I read about Miss Day. Can you, perhaps, assist me in being able to not see the images of a dead child when I read about her? I can’t get those pictures out of my head.I’m very glad that it is a merciful God who is judging us & not you. If you were judging me I’d never have a chance at heaven.
I did apologize for the truth of my reaction. Perhaps I should not have admitted the depth of my emotions at the hearing of a child killed?
Thank you. Would you mind posting where you get this information. From what I understand we trust in God’s mercy that unbaptized innocents will be united to Him in heaven, but there is no clear teaching on this. If you have something for me to read I would be grateful to you.
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anon67074017
Guest
It would be fair if they did not fully repent from their sins.
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Robyn_p
Guest
You’re right that the Church has no definitive teaching, except to trust in God. But I was thinking of the Holy Innocents, who were murdered before being baptized, and yet the Church believes are in heaven as saints. Also what St. Bernard of Clairveaux said to parents whose child died in the womb:
“Baptism for this child was only delayed by time. Your faith suffices. The waters of your womb — were they not the waters of life for this child? Look at your tears. Are they not like the waters of baptism? Do not fear this. God’s ability to love is greater than our fears. Surrender everything to God.”
This obviously is only one saint’s opinion, but there are other saints who say the same thing. Again all this isn’t official teaching, we don’t know for sure what happens. But I think there are good reasons to believe unborn children, especially aborted children who are today’s Holy Innocents, are in heaven.
My point in my post though was simply that in God all things - even our most heinous sins - are healed and made right. The evil of abortion does not have the last word, and it is so important to remember that and not fall into despair.
That said, I want to make clear it’s good that you feel so much emotion at the thought of an aborted child. What happens to them is evil. But those children are also not still in pain. They are with God and have no bitterness towards their parents. And they wouldn’t want us to have any bitterness towards them either, especially if said parent converted and spent the rest of her time on earth defending all life like Dorothy Day did.
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J_Peterson
Guest
It’s private revelation so we are not bound by it. We don’t even have to believe it.
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