Friends with Witches

[catholiclala]

I would say get a better understanding of this person’s beliefs and draw your boundaries from there, with discernment. More detail is needed. Someone claiming to be pagan or a witch can range from meaning they like crystals and think astrology is cool, take their love of Harry Potter too far, get together with friends and indulge in witchcraft purely from an aesthetic standpoint, or they are legit practicing it as a religion.

Once upon a time, I had a best friend who was raised by pagans. I never thought much of it and thought it was interesting when I was younger and way more bohemian. He got weirder and weirder and more into that stuff. I can’t say how far he ended up taking it because we drifted apart, maybe not coincidentally when I converted. He has a theology degree and claimed great respect for the Catholic church and was supportive of my conversion. It’s all really confusing. I do recall a creepy encounter on his birthday one year. Ironically, his birthday is on Halloween. He involved the party goers in a ritual without our knowledge. I honestly don’t think anything came of it but it was still bizarre and exploitative. He was also into orgies and who knows what else. I can’t say how I would feel if we were still close but I do think the parting of ways was inevitable.

 

[LuxTenebris]

Only you can decide if this is a deal breaker to you, but I think it would be a shame to lose a good friend over if things are otherwise okay.

I’m a Satanist and a “witch” and my Catholic friends still hang out with me with no problems. They know that I have a strong drive towards ethics even if my ethics aren’t perfectly matched with theirs and that I respect their autonomy and would never knowingly put them in a situation where they would have to compromise their values. They understand that I also have autonomy and I don’t have to believe the same things they do and that we can differ in belief and praxis while both still living good lives and mutually supporting each other in the most important ways. That’s not to say that they wouldn’t prefer it if I had a sudden conversion, but they’re wise enough to leave that in the hands of their god and let everyone mind their own lane. According to one of them, Jesus would have hung out with me, so why shouldn’t he?

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

If you believe in satan then you would believe in God.
satanists worship satan, Jesus is God and does not, nor ever worshipped satan, a creature Jesus as God, created, a rebellious angel.

Jesus would have rid you of demons if need be, and you had faith, but not hung out with someone who did not worship and glorify God.
The message of Jesus was and is
repent and believe , the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand

 

[Zach]

You can practice two of the spiritual works of mercy, namely to instruct and pray. Keeping in mind that “bad company corrupts good morals.” Not necessarily saying this person is bad company or your morals will be corrupted, just saying to keep it in mind.

 

[signit]

If you believe in satan then you would believe in God.
satanists worship satan, Jesus is God and does not, nor ever worshipped satan, a creature Jesus as God, created, a rebellious angel.

Jesus would have rid you of demons if need be, and you had faith, but not hung out with someone who did not worship and glorify God.
The message of Jesus was and is
repent and believe , the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand

And, just to clarify, witches aren’t satanists.

In their theology there’s no god or character that is all evil.

 

[DaveBj]

I am pen pals with a Wiccan (Celtic Pagan). I know what he is, and he knows what I am, and we get along fine. My #1 job where he is concerned is to be a good representative of Jesus Christ.

D

 

[ElizabethECB]

This sounds very reasonable. I call my friend a Catholic because he was baptized into the church and retains a permanent mark on the soul that binds him to the church. He was also confirmed before turning fully over to witchcraft by means of his late father. Unfortunately, by practice he is a “grey witch”. He’s never been cruel or anything but kind toward me. He has told me he has been quite vengeful in his practice and had to “go into his mother’s dreams to give her nightmares” which I found disturbing!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And, just to clarify, witches aren’t satanists.

Yeah. There’s a huge difference in my mind between a witch, even one who practices some black magic, and a satanist. Not even in the same ball park.

One reason I personally would not want to get too close to a witch is that I find the craft to be interesting and somewhat attractive. I kicked around the idea of doing witchcraft during the time I was a non-practicing Catholic, and I was for a while trying to find some way to reconcile the two things (when the witch books started talking about the Great Horned God or whatever, my internal alarm bells would go off). Therefore, as I said above, it’s an occasion of sin for me because I would maybe want to go join in with it. I’d go so far as to say that if I had been raised without any religion, or raised by Wiccans or whatever, I probably would be a witch already.

By contrast, I see nothing attractive or inviting about Satanism and I want absolutely nothing to do with it, ever.

 

[Padres1969]

father. Unfortunately, by practice he is a “grey witch”. He’s never been cruel or anything but kind toward me. He has told me he has been quite vengeful in his practice and had to “go into his mother’s dreams to give her nightmares” which I found disturbing!

Huh… well I mean not to belittle his beliefs but he can’t actually “go into his mother’s dreams” other than by his actions when she’s awake… And those actions don’t require witchcraft.

 

[LuxTenebris]

I’m a non-theistic Satanist, so I don’t believe in either Satan or the Christian God. Most Satanists are atheists or non-theists of various types. I’m agnostic on the subject of deities. As someone mentioned, being a “witch” and a Satanist are different things, I just happen to be both. Satanism is my philosophical/religious bent, Southern Conjure is my craft. My Satanism flavors my craft, but they’re not one and the same.

There are no demons in me for Jesus to cast out. To my reading of the Bible, he liked to eat with tax collectors and all sorts of socially unsavory folks that nevertheless were humans worthy of consideration in their own stead and willing to hear what he had to say. If that’s not the case, then that’s rather disappointing. He’d be welcome at my table.

 

[LuxTenebris]

He has told me he has been quite vengeful in his practice and had to “go into his mother’s dreams to give her nightmares” which I found disturbing

Yeeeeah, that’s pretty unethical. I’d probably back off from that person if it were me.

 

[BornInMarch]

One would think, but common sense is anything but: there are plenty of cases of people holding mutually exclusive beliefs at the same time and sincerely believing in both of them.

 

[BornInMarch]

I think this is very dangerous advice. We should not assume we can withstand demonic influences we willfully allow in our lives on the basis that Jesus was able to do so and lead others out of sin in the process.

I also think this is dangerous advice… Satan is clearly alive, well, and especially active and seductive at this point in time. Demonic influence is not a trivial matter. Which is why this Friend should counsel with a Priest, if he wishes to live his life as a Catholic.

I’m guessing when you both say Demonic Influence you’re referring to having a direct link to demons. The problem is that it’s not always there; while some occultists do have contact with real demons, it seems to me that most of them are just communing with nobody.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

And, just to clarify, witches aren’t satanists.

In their theology there’s no god or character that is all evil.

My reply was to a self professed satanist on this thread.

Witches may or may not also worship satan. However, they are employing the occult and that is the realm of satan.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Satanist, so I don’t believe in either Satan

What is it you believe then, what qualifies you as a ‘satanist’?

Afterall you are proclaiming to be an ‘ist’ of a creature -satan, you do not believe in

 

[dochawk]

If you believe in satan then you would believe in God.

God is a necessary corollary of the existence of the devil . .

And, just to clarify, witches aren’t satanists.

Today’s “witches” are not witches, however.

The word had a well defined history when it got hijacked not that long ago as a feel-good, new-age self indulgent “religion”.

I have days where I"m tempted to write a novel in which witches use “witches” as a cover for their activities . . .

 

[LuxTenebris]

In non-theistic Satanism, Satan is an archetype rather than a literal being. Think the Miltonian version of Satan as a starting place. Non-theistic Satanism as a religion holds the values of personal autonomy, freedom from and responsibility to act against tyranny, ethical behavior towards self and others, and rational inquiry. We don’t worship Satan, we act in the role of Satan when we question and/or reject unnecessary and oppressive authority. So, there are some crossovers with anarchist theory as well. My particular branch also focuses on individual enlightenment and the “godhead” of all sentient beings, similar to the dharmic religions.

There are a lot of different subsets of non-theistic Satanism with varying philosophical positions, so I can’t speak for all of them, but theistic Satanism is a different animal and I can’t say that I’ve really ever met a true theistic Satanist where their beliefs are basically just inverse Christianity.

 

[Fill1sHeart]

She cannot have both. The Bible itself talks about witchcraft and other pagan things. Best bet is to pray for her. She is lost.

Kevin our local priest spoke recently during mass , touching on the subject of the supernatural.
He summed it up brilliantly , the supernatural is unnatural to humans. It goes totally against all natural logic.

Hence why so many are Spiritual blinded. I know he was not talking about witches but yes there are things none of us will totally understand and agree you can’t do both.

 

[ElizabethECB]

My friend does not want to live as Catholic at all. He is a Catholic by baptism alone so really not Catholic at all by many definitions. He is not a Satanist but rather a “witch” whose beliefs tie in with pagan and Native American ways of thinking just to clarify.

 

[Salibi]

A bit late to this thread and will be reading through in a bit but responding to your OP I wouldn’t recommend ending the friendship unless he’s doing something inappropriate or spiritually harmful, like continuously pestering you to participate in rituals or stuff like that. My reasoning for this is that if you cut him off, he’ll be hurt and get a negative image of Catholics and Catholicism, which wouldn’t be conductive for purposes of evangelization.

The best thing you can do in this situation is to be an example of a good Catholic, and you should also accept that your friend has free will and may not convert despite your best efforts. Don’t pester your friend constantly about it unless you’re talking about religion (I presume you don’t talk about religion all the time), in which case you should politely let him know that you do not agree with his beliefs and explain Catholic beliefs to him.