From Kingdom of Evil to Kingdom of God.

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I’m discussing with muslims for a long time in several foruns, I was stunned when I saw a lot of poor people with problems asking :
  • please, give me a hadith on this; give me a hadith on that
  • how to do this, or how to do that
There is always different answers,
Of course there are different answers, because Islam is flexible and allows different opinions. But sometimes there are right answers and wrong answers. Muslims want proof–and they have it. They ask for proof, and they get it. Something nice about Islam, that the rules can be proved like that.
I gave also a technical classification of Islam Dogmas - a mess
That’s just rude and offensive and entirely unrelated.
 
Please see my video on “How to find the true religion” on Youtube.com. Type in Romgt in the search field. The evidence is clear. There is only one true religion and that is Catholicism.
 
Sam,

This story you are sharing with us is quite inspiring and humbling. Props to you 👍 .

I can somewhat understand the struggle you are going through, because I have lived in KSA for some time as well and had to practice my faith quietly. Be careful though, especially by going to web-sites such as these. Some ‘Big Brother’ might be watching you. I have heard bad stories (but some good stories as well) about non-Muslims living there who practise their faiths. However, there are some ‘underground’ activity happening in KSA. I’d love to share to you more, but my concern is for the safety of those people.
 

Sister Amy wrote: “Of course there are different answers, because Islam is flexible and allows different opinions. But sometimes there are right answers and wrong answers. Muslims want proof–and they have it. They ask for proof, and they get it. Something nice about Islam, that the rules can be proved like that.”​

“Different answers” to the same question.
OK. That’s possible.

“Islam is flexible and allows different opinions.”
That contradicts that Islam is a clear/concise/uniform faith, something muslims emphasize so much in dawah.
And different opinons? There are different opinions on the Koran, the claimed dictated word Of God? You can’t have it both ways, amy.

“Right answers and wrong answers.”
Makes sense. But God’s answer should be the correct answer, right? So which one of the (human opinions) is God’s answer? Again, you can’t have it both ways.

“Muslims want proof and they have it.”
How do you figure that? With the convoluted logic you just wxpressed?
OK.

Islamic “rules can be proven.”
Again, by what you just described? Maybe to you, amy.
 
Here are my findings, I hope we Muslims can come with reasonable answers for these major contradictions, considering that our religion came after Christianity, so we have to give the reasons not them:
The underlined statement (of yours) is evidence that you are not a Moslem, as Moslems do not beleive that their religion came after Christianity. Their belief is: Islam is in existance since Adam
and they call Adam, the first Prophet of Islam.

Thus you are actually either an Arab Christian from Egypt/Lebanon/Syria…etc…or a non-Arab Christian who knows some Arabic and have some hotch-potch knowledge of Islamic religion.
 
Arabic Rule Of Tagleeb…

… If the teacher screams boys silence and there are 2 dogs, it [Arabic Rule Of Tagleeb] does not apply to dogs. So in order for the rule of tagleeb to apply, the parties in question must belong to the same category and or species…in this case, students are both STUDENTS and HUMANS. The rule does not apply to chairmen neither to dogs.
 
Hi “Sam”

So I am going to give you an example. Suppose your boss gives you a memo on Monday, telling you how to do a project, and then he sends you another memo on Tuesday. And then on Thursday he sends you another memo, each time he slightly changes the way he wants you to do it.

Which memo should you follow, the first one he sends you? The second one? Or the last one?

The answer, quite naturally, is the last one.

So you are saying that God changes His mind as he goes along?

Now, holy scriptures are not “memos” directly from God, so I don’t mean to offend anyone with the analogy.

Also, you should be careful about what you consider to be “holy scripture” “from the same God.” Because in fact, the Qur’an (let’s consider for the moment that it is the “last memo” as per the Muslim position) does not actually agree with the Bible, but it doesn’t even say that the Bible is holy scripture. It doesn’t say that the Bible is from God. And an informed Muslim would not tell you that the Bible is from God either.

So that is a mistake in your analysis.

So you admit that God changes His mind. Is that to confuse us? Perhaps His next memo will be stronly contradictory of the Koran. It is just a story.

In summary, if you believe in multiple scriptures from the same God, then be aware that the last version is the most final and complete version, which would overrule or correct anything before it. And secondly, if you do believe the Qur’an is holy scripture, from God, then you should accept only what it calls holy scripture and what it claims to be from God, so you cannot claim that the Bible is holy scripture because the Qur’an does not call it so, but rather only 4 other specific texts, which are named… and none of which are the Bible.
The Bible does not say that the Koran is holy scripture.
 
Let me give you the same response that Abu Bakr gave when confronted about Muhammad’s claim of the night journey and ascension.

“If he (that is, Muhammad) said it, then I believe it.”
If Jesus said it…Christians believe it. Jesus said that He is the Son of the Most High. He said that He and the Father are one. He also said that noone gets to the Father except through Him.
 
Nickname: Sam.
Gender: Male.
Occupation: IT Engineer.
Marriage status: Single (virgin).
Religion: Islam (so far).
Current resident country: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.


Part 1/7:

I will begin by introducing myself, I’m an Arabic person (but not from Ishmael’s descendants) who has been living his entire life in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, so you can say I have studied and thrived throughout the Wahhabi Islamic culture, I have studied that from my early childhood till now, and I always read our Muslims religious book (Quran) and practicing all Islamic religious obligations on daily basis together with my parents and my relatives.

However, during my life here in Saudi Arabia, I have encountered many racial and religious discrimination against me, my family, and other people with different religions, and I always wondered why is that coming from an Islamic country such as Saudi Arabia, shouldn’t it be (a great) country since its the source of (a great) religion which is Islam!, and where the Kaaba (the black stone) is located, why we Muslims treat people according to their origins and tribes!, later on I have found out that the whole gulf area is similar to that, I have friends in other gulf countries, and they are also complaining about the same issues, personally throughout my life here in Saudi Arabia, I have found that the majority of Ishmael’s descendants have bad manners, they pretend the religious acts in front of the people while at the back they make all prohibited things, racialism is everywhere, everyone’s loyalty to his or her tribe only, I’m not exaggerating, ask any expatriate who lives in the Gulf region and has a daily contact with Ishmael’s descendants (HRW1, HRW2, HRW3), and I always wondered why Human Rights Watch website has the majority of the complains related to Islamic countries, and why the majority of the wars in the world would have Islam as part of it!. However, later on I have realized the meaning of Jesus’ words: “By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?” (Matthew 7:16).

At age 30 I had a business visit to one of the western countries, and during that visit I entered one Church to have some photos (that was my first encounter with the Christian world), after that when I traveled back to Saudi Arabia something happened to me, I don’t know what, but when the Mosque’s clerk used to curse Christians and Jewish during our weekly prayer and daily in our fasting month (Ramadan), I actually wasn’t saying “Amen” after each curse like the other prayers, I kept silent, actually I don’t know why I was doing that, but I think I was saying to myself, why I would curse someone just because of his or her religion!.

And the days have passed like that till I have reached 33, and once I’m visiting another western country, I entered one Church to explore it more (just to fulfill my curiosity), and that day wasn’t Sunday, so it was empty, after exploring the Church I said to myself let me see this Bible which is forbidden for us to read in Saudi Arabia, and I sat down and I started reading the first pages of the Bible which was the Genesis chapter, I really was amazed by the details that was given about the creation of the world, details which were not available in our Islamic book Quran, I kept reading till two hours have passed like two minutes for me, after that I left the Church and because of my tight schedule I said to myself I should continue reading this Bible back home.

When I have finished reading the Bible through the Internet, I was really stunt by the words of Jesus, I thought to myself that those words cannot come from a human being even if he was a prophet, while in our Quran the words are normal and any Arabic person can come with such verses, there is no big deal with that, we Arabs are well known with our beautiful Arabic poem.

However, nowadays in some of Christian TV stations (broadcasting to our region through satellites), when they run some short scenes of Jesus teaching and when I read the Bible online, I feel my heart inclined towards the Bible and I shed tears!, I haven’t shed any tears all my life when reading Quran or when praying, why its different now!, I asked myself this question: WHY I SHED TEARS WHEN I HEAR JESUS WORDS, WHAT MAKES MY SOUL SO ATTRACTED TO THOSE WORDS!. WHY WHY WHY !!!
May you be guided well. I will pray that you come to full understanding of what you have found and hope I to read all your 7 parts of the changes you have found. Hope other muslims too come to some understanding

God Bless you
 
If Jesus said it…Christians believe it. Jesus said that He is the Son of the Most High. He said that He and the Father are one. He also said that noone gets to the Father except through Him.
Well said 👍

Wonder what it will take for Amy to understand.🤷
 
I guess you didn’t catch my meaning.

How could God say about something, in what you believe to be sacred scripture, that it is GREAT if it is greate in something other than God?

For if something is great in the world then ultimately it is not great in God. Material greatness, like wealth, is for this world and not the Hereafter, why Jesus said that it will be harder for a rich man to get into heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.
Wow, i am impressed, but i wonder why you keep living there. Do you like the life there?
I lived about 2 years in Saudi and i felt i was like in a prison, not to mention discrimination.
Does your family know about ur interest in Christianity? Try not to let anyone know, at least as long as you are in that country.

So, what are your final conclusions now? You still believe Mohamed was a prophet and Coran is from God? Do you still pray as a muslim?
 
Part 2/7:

However, I decided to investigate more on the origin of the Bible and our Muslims Quran, and I ran a search to find the name “Muhammad/Ahmad” our Islamic prophet (as mentioned in our Islamic book Quran that Jesus said “after me a prophet will come with the name Ahmad”), but I was shocked to find out that there is no mentioning for that name in the Bible!, and I wondered why!, shouldn’t that be mentioned because our Islamic Quran says so!,
and I ran a search again on the Internet to find out why, and I discovered that we Muslims are not referring to the actual quote from the original Bible, but from a fabricated fake Bible (Barnabas book) which is dated back to the 16th century (10 centuries after Islam), when I realized that I sank into a deep depression.

After that shocking discovery I decided to seriously find out, and I started comparing both the Bible and our Islamic book Quran, and I was seriously shocked to find out that our Islamic book Quran teaching is opposite to the Bible teaching, I thought to myself how is that possible since both should have come from the same God!!!.
Exactly. It is teaching the opposite, good observation.*
That’s the idea, both books don’t have the same source. Only in the Bible you find God’s word.
Here are my findings, I hope we Muslims can come with reasonable answers for these major contradictions, considering that our religion came after Christianity, so we have to give the reasons not them:
 
Hi “Sam”

Let me take your story at face value for now, for the benefit of the readers. The Catholics here should not be surprised by my response–and I don’t mean to offend anyone by it.

I am a convert from Christianity to Islam, that is I decided to embrace Islam after living as a Christian. And not because the Qur’an agreed with Christianity–it doesn’t. That’s rather the point, actually.

**So I am going to give you an example. Suppose your boss gives you a memo on Monday, telling you how to do a project, and then he sends you another memo on Tuesday. And then on Thursday he sends you another memo, each time he slightly changes the way he wants you to do it.

Which memo should you follow, the first one he sends you? The second one? Or the last one?

The answer, quite naturally, is the last one.

Now, holy scriptures are not “memos” directly from God, so I don’t mean to offend anyone with the analogy. **

Your exemple is not very inspired, because in the case of the boss it shows a person who is changing his mind on certain aspects and is not pleased with his first version, while GOD never makes mistakes, neither changes HIS mind, as HE IS PERFECT.

Also, you should be careful about what you consider to be “holy scripture” “from the same God.” Because in fact, the Qur’an (let’s consider for the moment that it is the “last memo” as per the Muslim position) does not actually agree with the Bible, but it doesn’t even say that the Bible is holy scripture. It doesn’t say that the Bible is from God. And an informed Muslim would not tell you that the Bible is from God either.

So that is a mistake in your analysis.

In summary, if you believe in multiple scriptures from the same God, then be aware that the last version is the most final and complete version, which would overrule or correct anything before it. And secondly, if you do believe the Qur’an is holy scripture, from God, then you should accept only what it calls holy scripture and what it claims to be from God, so you cannot claim that the Bible is holy scripture because the Qur’an does not call it so, but rather only 4 other specific texts, which are named… and none of which are the Bible.
**
Of course it cannot call the Bible holy as long as the messages are completly different! **
 
Hi, Sam_777,

First, let me commend you for the courage you are showing in following Christ under such difficult circumstances. You are an inspiration to many.

Let me tell you how thankful I am that you have written these posts. This has been personally very helpful to me.

Our prayers are with you - and some of us are praying for you and your intentions all this week!

God bless your activities to do good and avoid evil.

God bless

Tom
Part 3/7:

Bible:
01- Affirms Trinity (Matthew 28:18-20).
02- Jesus was crucified.
03- God calling Jesus his Son (Mark 1:11).
04- Polygamy is adultery (Matthew 19:3-12).
05- No marriage in Paradise, humans will be like angels (Matthew 22:30).
06- No killing of any sort (NT), Jesus was healing people.
07- Lots of miracles for Jesus.
08- God does not change his mind, and Jesus words never pass away (Numbers 23:19) & (Mark 13:31).
09- Jesus teaching us not to swear (James 5:12).
10- No eye for eye, (Matthew 5:38-39).
11- Jesus was born in a manger (Luke 2:11-12).
12- Christians are children of God (Matthew 5:9) & (Galatians 3:26).
13- No Jinns creatures.
14- Noah’s wife was not a sinner, (Genesis 6:18).
15- Noah had no sinner son, (Genesis 7:1).
16- Noah total years before the flood 600 years & after the flood 350 years (950 years in total) (Genesis 9:28-29).
17- Aaron, Moses and their sister Miriam (NOT Jesus’ mother) are the children of Amram whom born around 1500 years before Jesus (Numbers 26:59).
18- If someone leaves Christianity, no death punishment (Matthew 10:14).
19- Pray alone in your room, (Matthew 6:5-7).
20- God three love stories (Luke 15:3-32), (Matthew 5:45).

** Quran:**
01- Rejects trinity, (Quran 05:73).
02- Jesus was not crucified, (Quran 04:157).
03- Jesus is no more than a normal messenger, (Quran 04:171).
04- Unlimited polygamy & divorce are allowed (up to 4 wives at a time), plus unlimited right-hand-posses (concubine or bought), (Quran 04:03).
05- Marriage (sex) & lots of virgins in paradise, (Quran 44:54), (Quran 55:56).
06- Smite heads, slay, fight, and terror, (Quran 47:4), (Quran 09:5), (Quran 09:29), (Quran 03:151).
.
 
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