From where did the physical laws come?

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I am hoping for some help.

From where did the physical laws of the universe come?

Our human reason can see that the laws are filled with reason.

From where did the laws’ reason come and our ability to see their reason?

Thanks!
 
The physical laws have always been in existence.
Since God created the universe, He also established the physical laws by which the universe operates.

Gravity has always been in existence… It just took man ( Issac Newton) to discover it.

Laws of motion and relativity were discovered by man, not created by man… Albert Einstein for one.

So… The short answer is God
 
Physical law has been created by God, just like the Universe or like the Law of logic.
 
I am hoping for some help.

From where did the physical laws of the universe come?

Our human reason can see that the laws are filled with reason.

From where did the laws’ reason come and our ability to see their reason?

Thanks!
Our ability to “see” reason comes from our likeness to God. It’s a Grace, which has been given to us.
 
I am hoping for some help.

From where did the physical laws of the universe come?

Our human reason can see that the laws are filled with reason.

From where did the laws’ reason come and our ability to see their reason?

Thanks!
Depends upon the laws. And, “laws” is a poorly chosen word, because laws are simply arbitrarily chosen rules which are regularly violated. Principles of action would be more accurate, because they are never violated.

To reduce confusion, I’ll use “laws” to stand for “principles of action.”

There are only three natural laws that we know of, the Three Laws of Thermodynamics. They are the inherent properties of dark energy, and are all time-independent.

The other laws of physics are geometrical choices, engineered by the Creators as components of a structured but flexible universe. These are all time-dependent, suggesting that “time” is part of an engineered interactive geometry.

These are all non-standard interpretations that have zero agreement in the physics community.
 
I am hoping for some help.

From where did the physical laws of the universe come?
From the universe itself, by design by the Designer.
Our human reason can see that the laws are filled with reason.

From where did the laws’ reason come and our ability to see their reason?
The laws’ reason come from God, our ability to see the reason is a gift of knowledge from God.
 
There are only three natural laws that we know of, the Three Laws of Thermodynamics. They are the inherent properties of dark energy, and are all time-independent.
And v[sub]max,vacuum[/sub]=c. And the laws of electromagnetism (written concisely as del[sub]b[/sub]F[sup]ab[/sup]=mu[sub]0[/sub]J[sup]a[/sup]), particularly the solenoidal condition of the magnetic field. And causality. And the conservation laws (mass, momentum, energy, charge, etc). And probably a couple others that I am forgetting at the moment. But suffice it to say, there are more than 3 natural, inviolable principles of actions that you assert.
The other laws of physics are geometrical choices, engineered by the Creators as components of a structured but flexible universe. These are all time-dependent, suggesting that “time” is part of an engineered interactive geometry.

These are all non-standard interpretations that have zero agreement in the physics community.
Non-standard in that you are neglecting many other inviolable principles of actions that are natural.
 
Nicolaus Copernicus Heliocentric Theory of the Solar System
“The universe has been wrought for us by a supremely good and orderly Creator.”

Johannes Kepler Kepler’s Laws of Planetary Motions
“[May] God who is most admirable in his works … deign to grant us the grace to bring to light and illuminate the profundity of his wisdom in the visible (and accordingly intelligible) creation of this world.”

Charles Darwin Theory of Evolution
“There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” Origin of the Species, 1872 (last edition before Darwin’s death).

Jim, it’s an interesting question you ask. Why are there laws at all, rather than pure chaos?

And why did the universe come to exist, when once it didn’t?
 
And v[sub]max,vacuum[/sub]=c. And the laws of electromagnetism (written concisely as del[sub]b[/sub]F[sup]ab[/sup]=mu[sub]0[/sub]J[sup]a[/sup]), particularly the solenoidal condition of the magnetic field. And causality. And the conservation laws (mass, momentum, energy, charge, etc). And probably a couple others that I am forgetting at the moment. But suffice it to say, there are more than 3 natural, inviolable principles of actions that you assert.

Non-standard in that you are neglecting many other inviolable principles of actions that are natural.
Poetic justice at last. Someone for Greylorn to cross swords with. Have fun.

👍👍👍👍
 
And v[sub]max,vacuum[/sub]=c. And the laws of electromagnetism (written concisely as del[sub]b[/sub]F[sup]ab[/sup]=mu[sub]0[/sub]J[sup]a[/sup]), particularly the solenoidal condition of the magnetic field. And causality. And the conservation laws (mass, momentum, energy, charge, etc). And probably a couple others that I am forgetting at the moment. But suffice it to say, there are more than 3 natural, inviolable principles of actions that you assert.
Look into this more carefully. I did not feel that it was necessary to demonstrate detailed physics understanding for this post. If you doubt that I know whatof I write, read the reviews of my book about the relationship between physics and consciousness. All are by readers who understand physics.

What I tried to convey here is a simple distinction between the time-independent laws of thermodynamics and the time-dependent laws of general physics.

There is a theory behind this, of course. I propose that everything in the universe except the “soul” is formed from a single substance, or manifold, recently discovered and named “dark energy.” The Laws of Thermodynamics apply to dark energy, and as you’ll note, are all time-independent.

I propose that a powerful conscious mind used dark energy to construct the stuff from which the universe is made— matter, charge, e/m fields, etc., and the time-dependent principles of physics that describe their interactions.

These ideas are speculative, but based upon empirical reality. They have the unique advantage of defining a Creator and including Him as an essential component of any serious understanding of physics.

The ideas propose a genuine, physics-based relationship between God and the universe. Are you opposed to that, simply because it may not fit your current beliefs?
 
Look into this more carefully. I did not feel that it was necessary to demonstrate detailed physics understanding for this post. If you doubt that I know whatof I write, read the reviews of my book about the relationship between physics and consciousness. All are by readers who understand physics.

What I tried to convey here is a simple distinction between the time-independent laws of thermodynamics and the time-dependent laws of general physics.

There is a theory behind this, of course. I propose that everything in the universe except the “soul” is formed from a single substance, or manifold, recently discovered and named “dark energy.” The Laws of Thermodynamics apply to dark energy, and as you’ll note, are all time-independent.

I propose that a powerful conscious mind used dark energy to construct the stuff from which the universe is made— matter, charge, e/m fields, etc., and the time-dependent principles of physics that describe their interactions.

These ideas are speculative, but based upon empirical reality. They have the unique advantage of defining a Creator and including Him as an essential component of any serious understanding of physics.

The ideas propose a genuine, physics-based relationship between God and the universe. Are you opposed to that, simply because it may not fit your current beliefs?
Greylorn:

What’s your book’s name?

God bless,
jd
 
The physical laws have always been in existence.
Since God created the universe, He also established the physical laws by which the universe operates.

Gravity has always been in existence… It just took man ( Issac Newton) to discover it.

Laws of motion and relativity were discovered by man, not created by man… Albert Einstein for one.

So… The short answer is God
HOLD ON A MINUTE!!!
I wasnt aware that their was actually any physical laws to govern the universe?
and understanding the principles behind the mysteries of the universe are complex!
are you talking about physics here?
Physics is a scientific field involving the idea that there is a set of principles behind the motion of the universe!
I would disagree with physics though because i believe the body of the universe is to complex for the mind to comprehend.
 
HOLD ON A MINUTE!!!
I wasnt aware that their was actually any physical laws to govern the universe?
and understanding the principles behind the mysteries of the universe are complex!
are you talking about physics here?
Physics is a scientific field involving the idea that there is a set of principles behind the motion of the universe!
I would disagree with physics though because i believe the body of the universe is to complex for the mind to comprehend.
Disagreeing with something that you have not studied? Cool!

I’ll be hanging on your every word, expecting great insights.
 
OH thanyyou greylorn as if i had not had the mind to ponder what you had said, i would probably wonder about your credentials? but since im on the internet and she had asked a question i thought truthfully that i should answer it!
 
I am the OP.

I know that this statement might be unusual.

Our ability to reason sees order or logic in the physical laws of the universe.

Our ability to reason created math, and math is used to understand the laws of the universe.

What if the laws of the universe are qualities and not quantities?

What if the principles behind the laws are of an existence that math cannot measure?

Thanks!
 
What if the principles behind the laws are of an existence that math cannot measure?

Very likely they cannot be measured. That is what axioms are all about … principles that are assumed but cannot be proven. 👍
 
Look into this more carefully. I did not feel that it was necessary to demonstrate detailed physics understanding for this post. If you doubt that I know whatof I write, read the reviews of my book about the relationship between physics and consciousness. All are by readers who understand physics.
I do not read new age books. The point of my post was that you are greatly simplifying matters by suggesting that there are only four natural laws and the rest are somehow unnatural.
What I tried to convey here is a simple distinction between the time-independent laws of thermodynamics and the time-dependent laws of general physics.
Thermodynamics has 4 laws:
(0) If two systems are each in equilibrium with a third, then the two are in equilibrium with each other.
(1) Heat and work are systems of energy transfer.
(2) Entropy always increases when a system is not in equilibrium.
(3) Entropy becomes constant as T goes to zero.
I am pretty sure that entropy is not time-reversible, which means it is time-dependent. Thus, 2 of the 4 laws you cite as being time-independent are actually time-dependent. Energy transfer in two isolated systems is also a one-way process, meaning it is time-dependent.
However, v[sub]max,vacuum[/sub]=c is time independent. So is the solenoidal condition of the magnetic field. So is the conservation laws of charge and lepton number. Non-destruction of energy is also time-independent. Perhaps you could argue that the solenoidal condition is spatially dependent (though I would disagree), but the rest are definitely not spatially dependent either.
There is a theory behind this, of course. I propose that everything in the universe except the “soul” is formed from a single substance, or manifold, recently discovered and named “dark energy.” The Laws of Thermodynamics apply to dark energy, and as you’ll note, are all time-independent.
New age mumbo-jumbo. And thermodynamics are not time-independent. So, a bust here.
I propose that a powerful conscious mind used dark energy to construct the stuff from which the universe is made— matter, charge, e/m fields, etc., and the time-dependent principles of physics that describe their interactions.
More new age mumbo-jumbo. Dark energy is a form of energy that causes the expansion of the universe and its nature is completely unknown; as such, it likely cannot construct actual matter from it. However, I will accept that an infinitely capable Being (i.e., God) should be able to convert dark energy, whatever it actually is, into matter.
These ideas are speculative, but based upon empirical reality. They have the unique advantage of defining a Creator and including Him as an essential component of any serious understanding of physics.
Speculative and hypothetical, but not based on anything empirical. Sounds awfully pantheistic to me.
The ideas propose a genuine, physics-based relationship between God and the universe. Are you opposed to that, simply because it may not fit your current beliefs?
Not physics-based relationship, new age-based relationship. I am opposed to it because it is seriously flawed in its fundamentals. And it does not fit with Revelation.
 
I am the OP.

It is rather difficult to follow what is happening in this thread, and that is fine.

But has any answers been given as to where the physical laws come?

THANKS!
 
**But has any answers been given as to where the physical laws come?
**

I am trying to grasp the question itself.

I suppose if you are a theist, the laws come from the same place the universe comes from … God.

If you are an atheist, you would be baffled as to why there is not only a universe (that once did not exist) but why this universe exists in such a way as to produce laws rather than chaos.
 
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