Frustrated by Music and Culture at Catholic Churches

  • Thread starter Thread starter midwestcatholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

midwestcatholic

Guest
I read the book “Rebuilt” and it talks about how at their parish they realized that the church that had attracted the most Catholics in their area was a … protestant church. They ended up deciding to change the focus from pleasing the people already going to church and instead made church relevant to people who were not. They started small groups where people could have discipleship and grow in their faith, they made the music quality, contemporary, and easy to sing to, and still included Gregorian chant and orthodox teaching in the church.

I’ve moved a few times and each Catholic church I go to seems focused on supporting the catholic school, maybe a church festival, and the music is organ music with songs written in the 70’s and 80’s. The Catholic church has the Mass which is supposed to be important, but the music is usually mediocre and the focus (and money and time) are focused on the school and on keeping things as they are.

It is frustrating to see these evangelical churches that are growing and adapting with more modern, good music, and active parish life. Meanwhile the Catholic churches are slow to change and in decline… I’m all for protecting the Tradition and orthodox teaching, but its frustrating to see other churches play quality music and have active parish life, while Catholic culture seems stuck in the 80’s…
 
Music Director here.
It’s mostly about $$$$.
Good musicians who are well schooled in Catholic liturgy are hard to come by, and they are in great demand.
If a parish is expecting big things on a shoestring, it’s not ever going to happen.
 
It is frustrating. In my Masters I wrote a re-vamp for a parish. This included turning 4 bland-music masses into 4 distinct options to appeal to all.

5 pm Saturday- Contemporary (JMT, Matt Mahar) w/chant

8am Sunday - Chant only, Latin Anglus, no “extra” music

10am Sunday- “Breaking Bread” hymnal with organ; spoken mass, cantor responsorial

11am Sunday (across town at other parish)- Classic Organ; chanted Angelus, cantor responsorial, Close with “modern” song or appropriate Cultural song (ie God Bless America on July 4)

It has worked like a dream for them. They are in tune with all types of people, including those who insist on sticking by their beloved tacky 70’s songs.
 
pianistclare said:
Music Director here.
It’s mostly about $$$$.
Good musicians who are well schooled in Catholic liturgy are hard to come by, and they are in great demand.
If a parish is expecting big things on a shoestring, it’s not ever going to happen.
Click to expand...
Do you find your peers “too big for their britches” at times? The Church that I did my project for had a talented and versatile Music Director.

But SHE was the Music Director and NO ONE–even the priest–could tell her what to do. When the new Mass schedule was proposed to her, she actually quit on the spot, despite being quite talented enough to do all the music (we knew it, she had played all of the music requested in the past).

She eventually entered the pool of new candidates and was hired back as a parttime for funerals and weddings…but she was incredibly angry that the priest “destroyed her career” when all he did was state that XYZ type of music was to be played at each Mass–even giving her the freedom to pick songs in that genre.
 
No.
I don’t. People who are highly qualified and talents have a job to do.
It’s not a group decision. The Director decides. Much depends on the philosophy of the priest who hires people. Does he want to micromanage? Does he strong opinions? Or does he expect the Director to make judgments calls as they see fit I wouldn’t work for a micro-mangager ever again. Been there, done that, got the blisters to prove it. When you’re in demand, you can agree to compromises. My pastor has said he would back me up no questions, and I agree to do so for him. Works well. People who make such statements as you found with this women…probably didn’t reallyhave a “career” in music in the firts place. No one makes $$ in church music, unless you’ve made some serious CD’s sold by the big publishing houses. She blew a good job.
 
Jeanne_S said:
This sounds exactly like my parish.Something for everybody
Click to expand...
After having done research, I really, really like this method. Having one parish “support” the various music styles, I’ve found is an incredible bridge for people. It’s funny because they become more open to the other styles.

But every time I hear this, “I know Fr. Smith is a good priest. Our masses are amazing because XYZ style music. Only good priests do that. Normally, I hate ABC music, but when Fr. Smith says a ABC Mass, I know it’s quality.”

Literally. They all said that. The people who purported to “hate” the music at the 5, somehow magically accepted it. I think, perhaps, because they felt spiritually fed.
 
pianistclare said:
No.
I don’t. People who are highly qualified and talents have a job to do.
It’s not a group decision. The Director decides. Much depends on the philosophy of the priest who hires people. Does he want to micromanage? Does he strong opinions? Or does he expect the Director to make judgments calls as they see fit I wouldn’t work for a micro-mangager ever again. Been there, done that, got the blisters to prove it. When you’re in demand, you can agree to compromises. My pastor has said he would back me up no questions, and I agree to do so for him. Works well. People who make such statements as you found with this women…probably didn’t reallyhave a “career” in music in the firts place. No one makes $$ in church music, unless you’ve made some serious CD’s sold by the big publishing houses. She blew a good job.
Click to expand...
That she did–but she was quazi-retired and had held the job for years through several priests and had gotten a bit big for her britches. She even told a priest (60 years old, but newly ordained) that he sung off-key and therefore should NOT be singing at any part of Mass.

How she was not fired then and there I do not know.

He took it really hard, and another friend of mine gave him free voice lessons.

So, really, her quitting was a long time in coming.
 
OH, not many of them can sing, and they know it. Even less the Deacons. Makes it very difficult at Easter Vigil for the Exsultet. 🤣

Good for your friend!
 
That’s just your experience though is generally true. A good priest may also attract a good choir with no money involved whatsoever.
 
Last edited:
pianistclare said:
OH, not many of them can sing, and they know it. Even less the Deacons. Makes it very difficult at Easter Vigil for the Exsultet. 🤣

Good for your friend!
Click to expand...
I wish I could have helped. Singing on my own, I’m utterly tone deaf. However, my friend said that I manage perfect 1/3 step harmony the likes of which she’d never seen in someone not well trained.
 
Well of course. What do you post? Hearsay? Been a Music DIrector for eons. I think I might have an opinion.
 
🤣
They might LOVE you in the chant Schola!
 
Last edited:
I am totally frustrated with the music and culture at my church. Mass would be much more pleasant without the pounding organ or the hammering piano or the grating guitar. Not to mention the caterwalling of “musical director”. God help me! There is a certain group that controls everything at mass. If every mass could be like daily mass with only two songs sung and no accompaniment. Please, please put down your fingers and step away from the microphone!
 
Have you ever been to a Traditional High Mass? The singing (in Latin) is beautiful and sounds heavenly and is conducing to raising your mind and heart to God. The Sacrifice of the Mass is about offering Jesus’s sacrifice to the Father and worshiping God. It is sad and tragic to reduce it to entertainment and feel-good praying and worshiping the community.
 
We do not have “worship services.” We are not primarily concerned with music or culture at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. We offer ourselves as a living sacrifice at the Mass. What we see at bible communities is everything except the mass! They have jettisoned the mass for the sake of culture, entertainment and little else. Being cultured or entertained is not one of Jesus’ commands. Loving one another is.

Which brings to mind the comment of a very wise civil judge that my wife knew: “I went looking for a friend and found none. I became a friend and found many.”

Concentrate on the Tabernacle. Focus on it. Fasten your eyes on it. Be enraptured by it. Be captivated by it. Desire, above all things, what is in it. The insipid music and the behavior of fellow sinners will pale by comparison. Consider also what they tolerate in you.

We have a schlocky 1970s “clapping Alleluia” at our parish. Horrible. I don’t clap. I stare at the Tabernacle, sing alleluia and nothing else really matters.
 
midwestcatholic said:
…the music is usually mediocre and the focus (and money and time) are focused on the school and on keeping things as they are.

It is frustrating to see these evangelical churches that are growing and adapting with more modern, good music, and active parish life. Meanwhile the Catholic churches are slow to change and in decline…
Click to expand...
I agree that the music at a great many Catholic parishes is horrible. Then again if I look in the hymnal, there is good music in there – it’s just not chosen by those in charge. At the same time I’m really turned off by bands (electric guitar/bass/drums/etc.) that are the center of some Evangelical Protestant gatherings. I also recognize the “keeping things as they are” syndrome. Here’s my take:
  • #1.) Catholic parishes aren’t typically under “excel or die” pressures that motivate many Protestant parishes and their pastors to perform.
  • #2.) I don’t think that Catholic priests on average are well trained in the skills necessary to (re)build a thriving parish.
  • #3.) Expectations in Catholic parishes are often very low. “We’ve been doing things like this forever!” Low expectations often equate to low performance.
  • #4.) Individuals are allowed to guard their turf in the Catholic Church even if they don’t perform well at their ministry/apostolate. Try being their head of food and beverage in a large Protestant parish. If you fail to perform your duties yet try to guard your turf, you’ll be replaced.
  • #5.) The Sunday “church” experience is vastly different from many Catholic to Protestant parishes. Many Protestants spend 4-6 hours at church on Sundays. Fellow parishioners are their friends. Pastors move freely between the faithful. They eat together, etc. Mass took 43 minutes at my parish last Sunday. 5 minutes after it was over, the parking lot was empty. This is on us!
  • #6.) God’s awesome gift to us – His Catholic Church and the Seven Sacraments including the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass are often as an excuse not to perform well as humans. “…that might be so, but we have the Eucharist!”, etc.
  • #7.) Perhaps the biggest issue of all is that it’s largely unacceptable to complain about anything in the Catholic Church, even if the complaint is made in a constructive manner and the complainer is willing to help achieve a solution. This is really a killer. A huge demotivator.
If you truly cannot find a Catholic parish that will nourish you, my honest, best, personal advice to you is to find a Protestant parish with a reputation for excellent fellowship, prayer and music. A “Christian lite” parish that in no way contravenes or attacks the Catholic Christian faith. On any given Sunday go to Mass at the best parish you can get to. Take it seriously! Then go to the Christian lite parish to sing and fellowship (and often pot-luck!)
 
Last edited:
The parish priest is in charge of everything and I think we are held captive to his judgment.

Having said this, I can state the opposite, too. Our parish has two churches. In one, the organ music is appropriate, beautiful, and the Mass keeps pace with the music, and vice versa. In the other church, the music director belabors every song, if it had 99 verses, she’d play them all. Mass is 15 minutes longer in the latter church, due to all the singing.
 
I’ll also note two other things:
  • I am no fan of bands (electric guitar, bass, drums, etc.) at Mass or any kind of worship for that matter. Now a piano, flute and harp can be great! The best, next to a pipe organ!
  • The Catholic Church isn’t in decline. It continues to grow no matter what we humans try to do to it!
 
Yup, we are not in decline. I regard an enjoyable song as a bonus; the others I try to get something out of. We are there for the sacrifice of the mass, as said above.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top