Frustrated with RCIA

[anjoh66]

*Originally Posted by joamy
To all Candidates and Catechumens- YOU ARE NOW CATHOLIC!!! WELCOME HOME!!! (And Yes, I meant to shout that one out loudly!!) God bless you all!!!

What about those who must wait until next year??? *​

I have just been officially accepted into God’s Church. You have MUCH to look forward too!! In my experience God pulls you closer and closer until the Big “Marriage” Day when one is FINALLY invited to His Table!!! :extrahappy:

Blessings to all the Candidates and Catechumens ‘still in waiting’, and may we ALL stay strong in our desire for Jesus and grateful for our Path of Narrow Road.

Thank you in Christ for all your good wishes. It is truly amazing to belong to His Body on Earth! HAPPY BLESSED EASTER TO ALL!!!

I would like to say that the acctual moment when you “swim the Tiber” is the very moment when you are being accepted as a catechumen/candidate at the rite of acceptance.

The easter vigil mass is a wonderful moment of joy for those who recieve it by baptism or full communion into the church.

But, i claim that the most important moment is when the person says his personal yes to become a follower of Jesus and being initiated in the catholic faith.

We should not see this as some kind of magic moment when the candidates become full members of the church. It is important to make the distinction, the most important moment is acctually when somebody say their personal yes to the Lord.

The thief on the cross had no possibility to join RCIA, be baptized and confirmed and recieve the eucharist.

All he could do was to say his personal yes to the Lord and that sufficed better than anything for him, can there be any better consolidation at the time of death than being assured the paradise from the mouth of the Lord himself?

Therefore i persist in saying that the most important moment is when a person say yes to Jesus.

The easter vigil is an important occasion for the individual and also for the parish that they are getting in full communion with the church, but it must not result in some kind of we and them thinking.

The catechumens and the candidates are even before the easter vigil being counted as catholics in their hearts and God has full knowledge of what is in every mans heart.

 

[anjoh66]

To all Candidates and Catechumens- YOU ARE NOW CATHOLIC!!! WELCOME HOME!!! (And Yes, I meant to shout that one out loudly!!) God bless you all!!!:thumbsup:

They should acctually have been welcomed when they said their personal yes to Jesus, not after some rites at the easter vigil.

You must make that distinction, just because they cant participate in the eucharist, doesnt mean they have not faith, and the faith suffice for salvation.

 

[7before]

Makes perfect sense!! :clapping: LOL! (NO disrespect intended!)
It would sound like ‘the Big moment’ is the “reason”, however that was NOT the way I intended it! Yes you are exactly right and I stand ‘corrected’! However what I am trying to describe is my human heart and it’s desire to FINALLY sit at God’s Table in a “physical” sense (with the rest of the Church). It has been my experience as well as other friends I know that one tends to still “feel” outside the Church to some extent until they are actually brought in by ritual acceptance. Since Easter time naturally reigns down an extra abundance of God’s Grace from Above for us all, it is most exciting to a Convert that has waited long, and it IS like a “Wedding” (with a Capital ‘W’)! except it is far more Important (with a Capital “I”). I speak not only for myself.

Having said that, I didn’t mean for a minute to give the impression that God’s Calling to His Church isn’t a perpetual conversion process, or that ritual is the focus! Otherwise, my Presbyterian background would mean nothing. I had Jesus in my heart and life since I was a small child, and my “Catholic conversion of heart” was only, as I see it, FINALLY arriving at His Feet (so-to-speak). For me, it was as if God was always trying to get me to enter His Church and I kept compromising, so when I finally “Came Home” the Father put "rings on [my] fingers and bells on [my] toes and He Danced!! :extrahappy:

I did find though, it was after having my first (general) Confession that I felt much acceptance. That is the trouble with Protestant churches; they don’t have the Sacraments.

 

[Renoir911]

Hi Debbie.

I just saw your post and by now you are well on your way.
Remember this, God IS God of ALL, no matter what the faith as long as you accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. I’m Catholic, always have been, but I too questioned some of the Catholic ways and studied other Christian faiths. I’m at home in any church that welcomes our Lord first because He did say that He is the way to the Father in heaven. Relax, find quiet times and talk to God. He already knows you and loves you. There is nothing more pleasing to God to have you as His servant no matter what faith you are. Overseas two years ago we had the privilege to attend a mass at Notre Dame cathedral in Paris. It was full of worshipers who sang at the top of their lungs. The Cardinal who spoke to the congregation asked us all why we were there. I speak French and translated his words to my wife. He asked us all to look deep at the reason why we were attending the service. He wanted us to be there to worship Christ and not anyone or anything else. He wanted us to be there because we wanted to be there as opposed to feel pressured to be there. It was amazing and full of the spirit. We truly felt at home with God and cannot remember ever feeling this in any other church.

Also, attend a TAIZE service one day. Look it up on the internet, it is amazing and brings you so close to God in worship.

God Bless you.

R. May

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Thanks everyone for your responses. No, I didn’t know about the Coming Home Network, but I Googled it and it sounds interesting. As for the class teacher, she is the DRE so she is an employee - she is working on her Master’s in theology at a Catholic college. I am working on meeting new people in our parish who might be a little more conservative. I just am not comfortable complaining about RCIA when I am still a student. Since I have antagonized my family and friends by converting, I just can’t bear the thought of having no Catholic friends either…I guess I’m a wimp!

Convert:

I read as much of this as I can bear without saying something…

You have friends - HERE!

You can ask questions - HERE!

1. Ask the Apologist
2. Start a Thread w/ a question like you did…
3. PM any of us (I’m almost always available, and I’ll make sure I look up what I don’t know).

BTW, the bit about “Co Mediatrix of Graces” that’s been a suggested dogma, but it hasn’t been declared, and probably won’t. If it is, I’ll look at the documents and we’ll work up a justification for it based on Scripture and Tradition. As for now, don’t worry about.

Here’s something on the Mass that might get you thinking - It’s from a friend of mine (Seems there’s a real need to link this one today - so you get it for free):

The Mass of Vatican II
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/fessio_massv2_1_jan05.asp

I thought the one poster had a good idea - Here are a couple of links about how to pray the Rosary, just in case your parish doesn’t have anything on it…
How to Pray the Rosary
rosary-center.org/howto.htm
EWTN - How to pray the Holy Rosary
ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/rosary/how_to.htm

I know you’re afraid of losing the only friends you think you have in your parish, but the Director of Religious Education is potentially leading others to the same sin that she did, and it’s a serious sin. I try to live according to Ezekiel 3 and 33. I suggest you use these links to look those up, as they bear on this situation.

Ezekiel 3:16-21 ESV
Ezekiel 33:1-17 ESV

"And you, son of man, say to the house of Israel, Thus have you said: ‘Surely our transgressions and our sins are upon us, and we rot away because of them. How then can we live?’ Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel? (verses 10 & 11)
I think you’ve described a serious sin, and one which this person should repent from if she is to continue in her present position. I once was forced to help my Bishop remove a priest who was refusing to perform his priestly duties while he was involved in a cult and committing adultery. It wasn’t pleasant to remind this powerful man that he had to submit to his Bishop and then to inform on him to his bishop while acting as witness for one of the other members of the parish, but for the sake of people’s souls it had to be done.

I’m what the cat drug in after an Orthodox Rabbi dropped me off at the front door after wandering in the wilderness and being demon obsessed for 20+ years. If I can do this, you can do this.

My prayers, along with those of the rest of those here, are with you.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[Disciple96]

Unfortunately, most of the RCIA leaders have no patience with my approach to learning the faith, and any time I ask a question I am basically told that if I accept the authority of the Church, I shouldn’t need to understand things.

Wow. I can certainly understand your frustration, Debbie. This was pretty much my experience when I was a kid as a member of a Protestant congregation. I was always thinking, always trying to understand and always asking questions. That’s pretty much how I wound up in the Catholic Church. I couldn’t get answers where I was so I struck out on my own to find the truth about God.

How can I defend my faith if I don’t understand it? As an example, yesterday I asked about Mary’s title of co-redemptrix and what exactly was meant by that term. I was told that RCIA candidates should be learning the basics of the faith and not worrying themselves about “abstract things.” I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but I understand the “basics” better than many “cradle Catholics.” What is the purpose of the class if it is not to answer my questions? (I should add that I’m the only candidate in this class, so I’m not depriving others of their instruction.)

I am so glad I didn’t have to deal with the RCIA. I took a Catechism class when it first came out and fell in love with the teachings of the Church. Then I took a “convert class” with three others and a wonderful priest instructed us in the faith. I learned so much and all my questions were treated with respect and answered beautifully. I’ve been studying Catholicism for 15 years now and I love it more and more everyday.

But I’m sponsoring a friend now who is enrolled in the RCIA. We’ve been to 3 sessions now and at this rate, she’ll never learn anything except the opinions of the deacons and hear their “testimonies” over and over again. We were both so frustrated yesterday I thought we’d scream. These guys do not know their faith, they do not know how to teach, they do not prepare for class, they are not following the material they handed out to the students–the Catechism, the Handbook for Today’s Catholic, and Outlines of the Catholic Faith and a schedule of topics to be covered.

Class ends up being a discussion period dominated by one of the deacons who does NOT understand Catholicism and misrepresents it every time he speaks. Three sessions now and we’ve gotten nowhere, absolutely nowhere. He even told the class that JPII’s The Gospel of Life wasn’t doctrine because it was “just an encyclical”. Good Lord. And yes I did point out to him that it is doctrine and that JPII was reaffirming doctrine that the Church teaches and has taught for a looooong time. It’s even in the Catechism which came out before the Gospel of Life did. But then I suppose he hasn’t gotten around to studying either of these documents. I’ll bet he hasn’t even read 'em. If he has, I haven’t been able to tell it from what he’s said in class.

Also, yesterday I mentioned that I would need to confess having my “tubes tied” fifteen years ago. The Religious Ed director told me that she had her tubes tied two years ago and then just went and confessed it afterwards. She then added that she had never regretted it. All the other leaders laughed along with her, but it left me wondering --how can you confess something you don’t regret doing? She told me that most Catholics don’t think sterilization is sinful. But I know what the Church teaches, and so does she. Why isn’t she representing the Church’s teaching, especially in her capacity as a church employee?

Unfortunately, this is not uncommon. I think we need to make sure our catechists are capable of teaching the faith before we let them do it. And then we need to make sure they actually teach the faith and only the faith once they begin teaching. And we need to make sure they keep teaching properly. For heaven’s sake, all they have to do is use the materials the Church has provided. Use the Catechism, for crying out loud! That’s what it’s there for! People want the truth, they want to know what the Church teaches, so teach it! Oy ve!

I am going to stick this out – after all, it’s only 2 weeks. But I don’t know what to do about this class. Should I tell the priest my opinion? I don’t want to be uncharitable and get the Religious Ed Dir. in trouble. Or maybe he feels the same way? What are your opinions? Debbie

Since it sounds like you already tried with the “catechists”, I think you really should mention your experience to your priest. In writing too. And if you don’t get anywhere with that, then to your Bishop. He needs to know. And if you don’t get anywhere with him, then Rome needs to know about that.

We need a new evangelization of the world. And a re-evangelization of Catholics. This is a serious problem and we’re the ones who have to pray to the Lord for His grace and help. And then we have to pick up our Catechisms and our Bibles and get out there and spread the truth and the Gospel.

One more thing: Welcome home, Debbie!