Frustrated with the Church, not with Jesus Christ

[AnneTeresa]

I feel sometimes that Catholics get so distratcted by the Church, the technicalities of its teachings, and all its happenings that they sometimes forget the whole point: exhibiting Christ’s love and loving him with all our hearts.

Example: I hear all the time from the overly “pious” Catholics (the ones who I guess never saw the biblical passage about removing a certain beam from one’s eye first) that under no conditions should we be “cafeteria Catholics”, picking and choosing what we want to believe. That’s fine, I would have no problem with that. But…it’s not that simple. Last Saturday at Confession a priest told me that if I commit a mortal sin between Confession and mass the next day, I should still receive the Eucharist as long as I resolve with all my heart to go to Confession the next week. He said: “Christ wants you to receive him.” Okay, well that statement undoes 10 years of what I thought I knew about Communion and mortal sin.

Another example: I have struggled with the habit of masturbation, as many others do but don’t admit (and yet they still receive Communion every Sunday without Confession). Anyway, I have brought this topic up with five priests and four of them said that since it was habitual it is not a mortal sin, that I should just keep trying to stop. One of the priests told me that it is always mortal. Whom do I believe?

Another example: I told my priest that I have been guilty of having sex in an invalid marriage (my wife and I were married in the Presbyterian Church under almost the exact same form as the Cathoilc form during a time when I was not practicing my faith in the Catholic church). I am soon getting my marriage convalidated in the RC church. Anyway, I told the priest that since my wife and I were married in a very holy and Christian ceremony, and since she agreed (and participated in) my son’s Catholic baptism, I don’t feel that having marital relations with her is a mortal sin while I wait for my convalidation date. But I also told him that it is not my prerogative to determine what is mortal or not, and so I confessed the sin and asked for forgiveness. He said: “if you don’t understand why it is a mortal sin, then you did not commit a mortal sin.” Oh, okay (!!!)

So I have different priests telling me different things on BASIC DOCTRINE. So here’s what the “pious” Catholics will tell me in true Philistine fashion: read your CCC and you will know what is mortal and what is not. But wait a minute, I thought we weren’t supposed to determine of our own accord – and with our limited understanding – what doctrine is implied in the CCC? We are supposed to consult the Church (i.e. our priests who presumably have sound theological training). See what I mean?

Amen. I could have written your post–even some of the same issues. In my case, it’s been 7 different priests giving different advice. I feel the same way about the church too, not God. Also, when you read the CCC on “conscience” it just adds more confusion to the whole mess.

 

[Tiberius1701]

Tiberius,

You are correct about what you say. I was referring to the OPs situation. His, like mine meant we were not willing to live as brother and sister while waiting for the marriage to be convalidated. So in the eyes of the Church everytime we had sex we were having premarital sex which is a mortal sin.

Quote from OP
"Anyway, I told the priest that since my wife and I were married in a very holy and Christian ceremony, and since she agreed (and participated in) my son’s Catholic baptism, I don’t feel that having marital relations with her is a mortal sin while I wait for my convalidation date. "

As you can see he is not living as brother and sister, thus meaning he cannot give a valid confession since he is not truly sorry for committing the mortal sin in the first place.

Ah. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Tiberius1701]

Wow! Are you serious? How did you decide who should be able to confess?

If you’ll look at what was posted half an hour before you posted this, you’ll see that hudson wasn’t talking about being allowed to enter the confessional at all, but rather about the ability to make a valid Confession. If you don’t at least regret your sin(s) because you deserve hell for it/them, and especially if you have no intention of trying to stop committing them in the future, then your confession is invalid. This is, like I said, what hudson just explained half an hour before you wrote this comment.

 

[manualman]

My impression on this site is that there are a collection of religious misfits who are so caught up in judging other people, that they have no joy in their spiritual lives.

I suppose that is one potential explanation. But perhaps it’s worth a few minutes of self examination to consider other possibilities. Maybe you too are a sinner like we are…

 

[salusanimarum17]

… My impression on this site is that there are a collection of religious misfits who are so caught up in judging other people, that they have no joy in their spiritual lives. Rather than promoting Catholicism, the point here seems to be to present it in its worst light. I am very unimpressed by what I have seen here. There seems to be an **inverse relationship **between the prestige of the member, in the membership hierarchy, and the **spiritual joy **which comes across in their postings. Is the Catholic religion primarily about repression, depression, sorrow and hatred? That is the “take away” from Catholic.com. I would hardly call it a site which achieves a mission of promoting Catholicism.

After reading this, I guess I can reasonably say “welcome” and, with comments like this, suppose that you’ll fit right in.

 

[micahmike]

copeland45;7855945:

Four priests are telling you exactly the same thing that the CCC says in black and white - that force of habit reduces your culpability for the sin of masturbation, to the point where it’s no longer a mortal sin. Why on earth would you not believe them in such a case? Why believe the one - who possibly misheard or didn’t understand your circumstances, and who in any case is ‘out there’ on his own in his opinion.

I’m not the OP, but man, I can relate to what he’s saying! …and I think I can answer this question. “Because the stakes are so high.” We’re talking about eternal torture, lakes of fire, wailing and knashing of teeth. “Four out of five Priests oppine that you’re not going to suffer for all eternity” just isn’t terribly comforting. I can deal with a 20% chance that my car will break down this year, or that I’ll get cancer, or that I’ll get grassstains on my new shoes if I wear them while I’m mowing the lawn. That’s all temperary suckiness. Hellfire is eternal suckiness and it would be nice not to gamble with it, yet at the same time I can’t seem to convince myself 100% of the time to act as I know I should, and even the men that God has appointed through His Church to help me figure it all out don;t agree on what is or isn’t okay for me. Sucks.

 

[Tiberius1701]

LilyM;7856723:

I’m not the OP, but man, I can relate to what he’s saying! …and I think I can answer this question. "Because the stakes are so high.

" We’re talking about eternal torture, lakes of fire, wailing and knashing of teeth. “Four out of five Priests oppine that you’re not going to suffer for all eternity” just isn’t terribly comforting. I can deal with a 20% chance that my car will break down this year, or that I’ll get cancer, or that I’ll get grassstains on my new shoes if I wear them while I’m mowing the lawn. That’s all temperary suckiness. Hellfire is eternal suckiness and it would be nice not to gamble with it, yet at the same time I can’t seem to convince myself 100% of the time to act as I know I should, and even the men that God has appointed through His Church to help me figure it all out don;t agree on what is or isn’t okay for me. Sucks.

I like the eternal perspective, micahmike. As for the solution, I think, since the goal is perfection, maybe it wouldn’t hurt to try not to worry about whether it’s mortal or venial and just acknowledge that it’s sin? I mean, while only mortal needs to be confessed before receiving Communion, the Church, and most of the Saints, for that matter, recommend that we each get in the habbit of examining ourselves for and confessing venial sins too, and eventually, when we master those, imperfections too. I’m not saying I’ve gotten to that point yet - far from it - but, if it’s something that you struggle with constantly, regardless of whether it’s mortal or venial, it’s good to confess it, right? After all, we get grace for overcomming whatever we confess, so if you struggle with it confess it! If the priests advise you that it is or isn’t mortal, maybe try not to fret if they don’t all agree? The thing to focus on, I think, is that they all say, through the power of Christ in the Sacrament, “I absolve you…”

 

[LilyM]

LilyM;7856723:

I’m not the OP, but man, I can relate to what he’s saying! …and I think I can answer this question. "Because the stakes are so high.

" We’re talking about eternal torture, lakes of fire, wailing and knashing of teeth. “Four out of five Priests oppine that you’re not going to suffer for all eternity” just isn’t terribly comforting. I can deal with a 20% chance that my car will break down this year, or that I’ll get cancer, or that I’ll get grassstains on my new shoes if I wear them while I’m mowing the lawn. That’s all temperary suckiness. Hellfire is eternal suckiness and it would be nice not to gamble with it, yet at the same time I can’t seem to convince myself 100% of the time to act as I know I should, and even the men that God has appointed through His Church to help me figure it all out don;t agree on what is or isn’t okay for me. Sucks.

Certainly the stakes are high, but God knows that both we and our priests, as individuals, have limits as far as teaching and comprehension ability goes. He expects us to put a reasonable effort into understanding and practicing our faith with the limited resources we have.

Asking five different priests for advice on an issue and then going with the consensus is a more than reasonable effort. Under the circumstances doing so would by no means be a gamble nor will we be damned for taking the advice of the four priests. Although if all four of those priests are knowingly giving wrong advice THEY possibly will be in trouble for leading you astray.

Their job is to lead, yours is to follow to the best of your ability.

 

[AnneTeresa]

micahmike;7866802:

since the goal is perfection, maybe it wouldn’t hurt to try not to worry about whether it’s mortal or venial and just acknowledge that it’s sin? I mean, while only mortal needs to be confessed before receiving Communion, the Church, and most of the Saints, for that matter, recommend that we each get in the habbit of examining ourselves for and confessing venial sins too, and eventually, when we master those, imperfections too. I’m not saying I’ve gotten to that point yet - far from it - but, if it’s something that you struggle with constantly, regardless of whether it’s mortal or venial, it’s good to confess it, right? After all, we get grace for overcomming whatever we confess, so if you struggle with it confess it! If the priests advise you that it is or isn’t mortal, maybe try not to fret if they don’t all agree? The thing to focus on, I think, is that they all

say, through the power of Christ in the Sacrament, “I absolve you…”

This makes a lot of sense.

 

[newbetx]

I went to church on Mother’s Day with my mom. She is Episcopalian. I was impressed by the joy and good will all around me. Those folks found joy in their religion. My impression on this site is that there are a collection of religious misfits who are so caught up in judging other people, that they have no joy in their spiritual lives. Rather than promoting Catholicism, the point here seems to be to present it in its worst light. I am very unimpressed by what I have seen here. There seems to be an inverse relationship between the prestige of the member, in the membership hierarchy, and the spiritual joy which comes across in their postings. Is the Catholic religion primarily about repression, depression, sorrow and hatred? That is the “take away” from Catholic.com. I would hardly call it a site which achieves a mission of promoting Catholicism.

Two things. Yes this site has it’s share of the self-righteous here, or anywhere. It does depend on who you have contact with. Sorry. In a free site you get what you pay for.
Secondly, I hear the “welcoming” thing about going to other churches quite often. Basically, they are there because of each other. Not that there are not social connections at Mass, but the primary reason for going to Mass is to have a relationship with Jesus. A very different experience.

 

[Rock_Happy]

If you’ll look at what was posted half an hour before you posted this, you’ll see that hudson wasn’t talking about being allowed to enter the confessional at all, but rather about the ability to make a valid Confession. If you don’t at least regret your sin(s) because you deserve hell for it/them, and especially if you have no intention of trying to stop committing them in the future, then your confession is invalid. This is, like I said, what hudson just explained half an hour before you wrote this comment.

Personally, I choose not to give unsolicited advice in such matters. It is enough to take care of myself.

 

[Rock_Happy]

Two things. Yes this site has it’s share of the self-righteous here, or anywhere. It does depend on who you have contact with. Sorry. In a free site you get what you pay for.
Secondly, I hear the “welcoming” thing about going to other churches quite often. Basically, they are there because of each other. Not that there are not social connections at Mass, but the primary reason for going to Mass is to have a relationship with Jesus. A very different experience.

It was a religious service, not just a social event. The Episcopal Church does seem to be doing a lot better in the current world.

Time will tell, but the election of Benedict XVI, and trying to turn the clock backwards just doesn’t seem to be working in a world with such rapid social and scientific progress. Is the Catholic Church destined to become “The Church of Africa”? Will there be no place for it as Africa modernizes?

 

[mariafransisca1]

Oh, you are right…

The condition of the catholic church (its priests, members) are saddening…

Mother Angelica tells you this reality.

She said that if any priest take away from you, your devotions, do not teach you about the church, eucharist, penance…

Well, even if he said that there is no hell…

She said, if you follow him you will be with him there…

I don’t really remember … but goes something like that.

And she empathize too, she say… pray for priests

And a caller said, what if a nun in a service offer mass…

She said, walk out.

Listen to her yourself. She’s awesome. We should know the truth. And she delivers the truth.

motherangelicalive.blogspot.com/

Theology of the body:
chastityislove.blogspot.com/

 

[mariafransisca1]

Oh, and this is the reason why…

It is because the tridentine mass is replaced with the novo ordo mass in 1962, before that the mass and other sacraments were conducted in latin, and the music wasn’t contemporary but gregorian chants.
It is very sacred.

Now, there are abuses in mass, sacraments, … well, sad to say, it is true, after vatican II. But we mustn’t rebel (it is contrary to obedience) we must be obedient to the church, we can though, pray so that the tridentine mass be restored…

Watch the beautiful tridentine mass:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=561998