Frustrating confession. Validity?

[HelenRose]

But why do people expect the Catholic Church to go along?

I drink coffee and I certainly don’t go to Mormon blogs and complain to them for what their church teaches.

 

[HelenRose]

I don’t know if there’s one primary reason why people want to sanctify pot, but I can offer a few possibilities.

Let me see, in no particular order:

1. They already enjoy using it and they don’t want to give it up. Once someone has rationalized that something is okay, it’s not easy to backtrack, especially when you can find a large community of people who agree with you.
2. It’s “natural”. People seem to think drugs are better simply for the reason that they aren’t made in a lab. To paraphrase, Harold Ramis’ character in Knocked Up “if it grows in the ground, it’s probably okay”. That seems extremely ridiculous considering the kinds of things I’ve seen people do on shrooms, but nevertheless, it is a belief that a lot of people seem to cling to.
3. Pot has cultural ties and entanglements. I don’t simply mean hippies or neo-hippies, to a lot of people the suppression of pot is analogous to the oppression of various groups or causes. Siding with pot means taking on “the man”, the establishment, tradition, Puritanical roots, etc. There is a strong sentiment in this country that our nation has been far too traditional and Puritanical, so it’s easy to straw man anti-pot folks as paranoid loons, à la Reefer Madness.

Thank you.

 

[Havard]

Nobody is trying to sanctify pot. What we are wondering is WHY alcohol is licit, tobacco is licit, and marijuana is not. Why can I sinlessly give myself cancer, leave my family to fend for themselves because I knowingly choose to inhale 3000 different chemical poisons by smoking cigarettes that are more addictive than HEROIN? Why am I allowed to sinlessly imbibe alcohol which is responsible for THOUSANDS of deaths per year, through violence, poisonings, disease and plain reckless behavior associated with this drug? And an manis, very arguably the most harmless of the three, is off-limits entirely because I am not trusted to be responsible with my use as I am with the other two DEADLY substances? It is hypocritical. If the Church wants to make alcohol and tobacco illicit, at LEAST it would be consistent.

You are presenting a false dilemma/straw man argument. The Church (and the Bible, for that matter) is clear in condemning the irresponsible use of any drug.

 

[DoNotWorry]

You are presenting a false dilemma/straw man argument. The Church (and the Bible, for that matter) is clear in condemning the irresponsible use of any drug.

Any use of tobacco is irresponsible. It is more addictive than heroin and it kills 1/4 of the people who use it throughout their lives (which many who start do because, as I said, it is more addictive than HEROIN). I do not see the Church condemning tobacco use.

And as I said, I don’t see the Church condemning cannabis use either. If the Chirch were clear on the matter, priests would not be so divided on the issue.

 

[Robertanthony]

I don’t know if there’s one primary reason why people want to sanctify pot, but I can offer a few possibilities.

Let me see, in no particular order:

1. They already enjoy using it and they don’t want to give it up. Once someone has rationalized that something is okay, it’s not easy to backtrack, especially when you can find a large community of people who agree with you.
2. It’s “natural”. People seem to think drugs are better simply for the reason that they aren’t made in a lab. To paraphrase, Harold Ramis’ character in Knocked Up “if it grows in the ground, it’s probably okay”. That seems extremely ridiculous considering the kinds of things I’ve seen people do on shrooms, but nevertheless, it is a belief that a lot of people seem to cling to.
3. Pot has cultural ties and entanglements. I don’t simply mean hippies or neo-hippies, to a lot of people the suppression of pot is analogous to the oppression of various groups or causes. Siding with pot means taking on “the man”, the establishment, tradition, Puritanical roots, etc. There is a strong sentiment in this country that our nation has been far too traditional and Puritanical, so it’s easy to straw man anti-pot folks as paranoid loons, à la Reefer Madness.

I don’t demonize nor sanctify pot, i take a median approach. Personally, i simply could not care less about it, tried it once or twice, including once when I lit up the wrong end of the thing (but my brain malfunctions predate my one or two-time use of it). Did not care for the buzz nor for the feeling of congestion in my chest (due to mild asthma) What was the antidepressant that drove some people to kill people and/or themselves?* Would I prescribe that drug to everyone? No. Would i make a blanket condemnation of it? No. The raison d’être of this thread is if the OP can continue with her very infrequent and responsible use of marijuana and receive absolution in a confessional. A man’s meat is another man’s poison. That’s not moral relativism, that’s just using common sense. OP has her life together, healthy spiritual life, lucky for her she is on the IQ bell-shaped curve’s lower half of the right-hand side, occasional pot will not drive her to ruin! If the joint she enjoys every once in a while is a problem with the Church, then the one pack a day smoker should be an even bigger with the Church.

Now, I gotta offer the perspective of a Canadian here. Everytime I watch CNN and messages come on, very often it’ll be an add for a prescription drug. Now, I presume that there is a law in the US which forces prescription drugs companies to state* vocally *all the possible side-effects. Swelling of this, swelling of that, increase the risk of strokes, heart failure, etc. Now if I take a drug that is not absolutely necessary knowing some side-effects are nothing but bad for my health, is that also a problem? I had an acne outbreak late in my teens, took a drug to get rid of it, it said on the monograph that death was a rare but possible consequence of taking the drug. Did my vanityrolleyes cause me to mortally sin?

Possible scene in a seminary in the late 70s, early 90s. “Now scholars, we’re going to devote this class to the discussion of drugs. But first, we’ll watch a rigorously true and factual piece about the dangers of drugs called The Reefer Madness”. OK, people, no need to report it, i am just joking.

*I Googled it, it’s Prozac.

 

[Chayla]

Any use of tobacco is irresponsible. It is more addictive than heroin and it kills 1/4 of the people who use it throughout their lives (which many who start do because, as I said, it is more addictive than HEROIN). I do not see the Church condemning tobacco use…

Agree! And if you have time, do a search and check out some threads on cigarette smoking on this site. So many of the most devout Catholics defend cigarettes.

And they even defend smoking by saying that so many priests, bishops, and even some popes smoke(d)!!!

And yet so many condemn pot smoke. I cannot understand that mindset, considering how dangerous and addictive cigarettes are.

Here is an example, it seems to be a basic consensus that cigarette smoking is not sinful.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=806568

 

[HelenRose]

Agree! And if you have time, do a search and check out some threads on cigarette smoking on this site. So many of the most devout Catholics defend cigarettes.

And they even defend smoking by saying that so many priests, bishops, and even some popes smoke(d)!!!

And yet so many condemn pot smoke. I cannot understand that mindset, considering how dangerous and addictive cigarettes are.

Here is an example, it seems to be a basic consensus that cigarette smoking is not sinful.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=806568

I agree tobacco is a killer.

When smoking tobacco became the “in thing” to do people did not realize what a killer it was. Many people have died because of tobacco. They have died of heart disease, of cancer and of emphysema. Many children have suffered from second hand smoke.

Maybe marijuana is a safe warm cozy. Maybe not. Time will tell.

 

[HelenRose]

It is well known that when people are addicted to any substance it is very hard for them not to rationalize their behavior. We all want validation for our addictions. It is difficult to recognize that our addictive behavior is harmful to ourselves and to others.

 

[DoNotWorry]

Agree! And if you have time, do a search and check out some threads on cigarette smoking on this site. So many of the most devout Catholics defend cigarettes.

And they even defend smoking by saying that so many priests, bishops, and even some popes smoke(d)!!!

And yet so many condemn pot smoke. I cannot understand that mindset, considering how dangerous and addictive cigarettes are.

Here is an example, it seems to be a basic consensus that cigarette smoking is not sinful.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=806568

Yes!!! Especially interesting comments from
that thread are:

-One big problem people tend to have with smoking is their perception that “there is no good amount” and “any is too much.” In fact, I have found that with a little discipline it is quite possible to enjoy tobacco, be it in a pipe, a cigar, or a cigarette, in moderation and enjoy the mild buzz of relaxation that it grants, which can lead to excellent fellowship with fellow smokers. This is likewise the case with a good drink, a bout of gambling, or a couple hours of video games.

-As a heavy smoker my self, and I should know better, I did ask about this, and the answer was a blank no. (CCC 2290) But, gluttony is. Only one small obstacle is making me wonder, what is a reasonable amount of cigarettes? Ten, twenty…?

-Finally, I would urge you not to panic because “excess smoking” seems like a minor sin at most, especially because the Catechism doesn’t even give a full sentence to it.

So according to these people, the Church doesn’t condemn even excess smoking, you can intentionally smoke to catch a buzz, and a priest told this person it was not a sin.

AND YET:

cancer.gov/cancertopics/tobacco/smoking

Tobacco use is the LEADING cause of preventable illness and death in the United States. It causes many different cancers as well as chronic lung diseases, such as emphysema and bronchitis, and heart disease.
Cigarette smoking causes an estimated 443,000 deaths each year, including approximately 49,000 deaths due to exposure to secondhand smoke.

Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death among both men and women in the United States, and 90 percent of lung cancer deaths among men and approximately 80 percent of lung cancer deaths among women are due to smoking.

Smoking causes many other types of cancer, including cancers of the throat, mouth, nasal cavity, esophagus, stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, and cervix, and acute myeloid leukemia.

People who smoke are up to six times more likely to suffer a heart attack than nonsmokers, and the risk increases with the number of cigarettes smoked. Smoking also causes most cases of chronic lung disease.

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE???

 

[GEddie]

One of the pot-sanctifiers’ most overused arguments is, “Pot is natural, therefore it must be good.” Some even go so far as to say that God must will for us to use it!

This argument fails because nature contains a lot of things that have no place whatsoever in our human bodies; upas sap, poison oak, mercury, etc.

Also, it should be crystal clear that our breathing systems ARE NOT designed to process smoke of any kind! (I know the OP said she didn’t smoke it.)

For that matter, opium is just as natural as is pot (it comes from a flower!) yet no-one is arguing for its unregulated use!

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Chayla]

One of the pot-sanctifiers’ most overused arguments is, “Pot is natural, therefore it must be good.” Some even go so far as to say that God must will for us to use it!

This argument fails because nature contains a lot of things that have no place whatsoever in our human bodies; upas sap, poison oak, mercury, etc.

Also, it should be crystal clear that our breathing systems ARE NOT designed to process smoke of any kind! (I know the OP said she didn’t smoke it.)

For that matter, opium is just as natural as is pot (it comes from a flower!) yet no-one is arguing for its unregulated use!

ICXC NIKA.

What I would like to understand is why (legal) cannabis smoking is considered a sin, while tobacco smoking is considered not a sin. I hope someone here can provide a straightforward answer.

 

[Robertanthony]

One of the pot-sanctifiers’ most overused arguments is, “Pot is natural, therefore it must be good.” Some even go so far as to say that God must will for us to use it!

This argument fails because nature contains a lot of things that have no place whatsoever in our human bodies; upas sap, poison oak, mercury, etc.

Also, it should be crystal clear that our breathing systems ARE NOT designed to process smoke of any kind! (I know the OP said she didn’t smoke it.)

For that matter, opium is just as natural as is pot (it comes from a flower!) yet no-one is arguing for its unregulated use!

ICXC NIKA.

.“To be eaten by a bear is natural but not terribly good for your health.” i once heard that as a comical way to debunk the natural=good for one’ health.

But if tobacco users get a free pass even though the health hazards are very serious, multiple and well-documented (not an obscure research conducted on 40 people, half of whom served as the control group), then cannabis users ought to enjoy the same. Further more, i think we can all agree that something which is not sinful may be harmful to one’s physical health.

Opium is something else. I just looked at a table comparing the hazards of different drugs. Factors were physical addiction, psychological addiction, neurotoxicity and general toxicity. Cannabinoids scored low or ver low on all these parameters. Alcohol and tobacco scored high or moderately on almost all of these factors. Yet Jesus certainly drank alcohol in his lifetime. And I’ve seen people whose life and health had been ravaged by alcohol. Yet Jesus did drink alcohol. Just because some folks misuse cannabis and end up vegetating for the rest of their lives does not make cannabis intrinsically bad, nor does it make the responsible use that OP makes of it sinful or a problem.

 

[HelenRose]

Yes!!! Especially interesting comments from
that thread are:

-One big problem people tend to have with smoking is their perception that “there is no good amount” and “any is too much.” In fact, I have found that with a little discipline it is quite possible to enjoy tobacco, be it in a pipe, a cigar, or a cigarette, in moderation and enjoy the mild buzz of relaxation that it grants, which can lead to excellent fellowship with fellow smokers. This is likewise the case with a good drink, a bout of gambling, or a couple hours of video games.

…

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE???

I didn’t include your entire post but I wanted to give you my observations.

Well, these people are rationalizing their addiction.

Their logic is flawed. It really doesn’t matter what addiction we carry, we will respond in the same manner until we come to the knowledge that we are indeed sinners and need help to escape this burden of addiction.

We all sin. We all want to do what we want to do and do not want to be told no.

It is very easy for us to look at the other person’s rationalization and recognize their error.

It is sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.

If you look closely at arguments for smoking tobacco, or drinking alcohol, or smoking pot or any other variety of addiction, you will find a common thread of denial, anger and finger pointing."

If the church wrote out a detailed list of all the possible addictions you can bet someone would come up with a new one.

Even if we don’t want to admit it, we know what our sins are and we know what our addictions are. We just want others to approve and validate our sins and addictions. And it would be a big feather in our cap if the Church would pat us on the back and say, “Go to it sweetheart. Do what ever you want no matter what the harm is to yourself, to your children and to others.”

 

[Robertanthony]

What I would like to understand is why (legal) cannabis smoking is considered a sin, while tobacco smoking is considered not a sin. I hope someone here can provide a straightforward answer.

Nobody can. All you’re left with are the different opinions from different priests. But you know what they say about opinions? They’re cheap and everyone has them.

 

[Robertanthony]

I didn’t include your entire post but I wanted to give you my observations.

Well, these people are rationalizing their addiction.

Their logic is flawed. It really doesn’t matter what addiction we carry, we will respond in the same manner until we come to the knowledge that we are indeed sinners and need help to escape this burden of addiction.

We all sin. We all want to do what we want to do and do not want to be told no.

It is very easy for us to look at the other person’s rationalization and recognize their error.

It is sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.

If you look closely at arguments for smoking tobacco, or drinking alcohol, or smoking pot or any other variety of addiction, you will find a common thread of denial, anger and finger pointing."

If the church wrote out a detailed list of all the possible addictions you can bet someone would come up with a new one.

Even if we don’t want to admit it, we know what our sins are and we know what our addictions are. We just want others to approve and validate our sins and addictions. And it would be a big feather in our cap if the Church would pat us on the back and say, “Go to it sweetheart. Do what ever you want no matter what the harm is to yourself, to your children and to others.”

I just had an epiphany: you’re like a principal who would ban peanuts from lunches for all 400 students because 2 have an allergy to peanuts.

 

[Chayla]

… But if tobacco users get a free pass even though the health hazards are very serious, multiple and well-documented (not an obscure research conducted on 40 people, half of whom served as the control group), then cannabis users ought to enjoy the same. Further more, i think we can all agree that something which is not sinful may be harmful to one’s physical health…

This I agree on. To me, condemning (legal) cannabis while giving tobacco a free pass is totally hypocritical. Expecially since tobacco smoke, from a medical standpoint, is much riskier. And yet, so many staunch Catholics appear to think this way.

 

[GEddie]

I just had an epiphany: you’re like a principal who would ban peanuts from lunches for all 400 students because 2 have an allergy to peanuts.

Actually, that would be a valid thing to do, as allergies of this type can become life-ending if exposed to even a slight amount of peanut dust.

Likewise, the damage to the general society done by mellow-out stoners, IMNAAHO, is sufficient to reject allowing everybody to use pot for fun.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[HelenRose]

This I agree on. To me, condemning (legal) cannabis while giving tobacco a free pass is totally hypocritical. Expecially since tobacco smoke, from a medical standpoint, is much riskier. And yet, so many staunch Catholics appear to think this way.

I don’t think that the Catechism of the Catholic Church gives tobacco a free pass. I don’t have my Catechism at hand right now. Could you look up the passage in the Catechism that specifically says smoking tobacco is okay.

 

[Chayla]

I don’t think that the Catechism of the Catholic Church gives tobacco a free pass. I don’t have my Catechism at hand right now. Could you look up the passage in the Catechism that specifically says smoking tobacco is okay.

Here is info from the “Ask the Apologist” section on tobacco use.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=24386

 

[HelenRose]

Here is info from the “Ask the Apologist” section on tobacco use.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=24386

Thank you. But you must read all it.

“Christians are called to do what is reasonably necessary to protect their health (cf. CCC 2288). If using a particular product has been proven to be a danger to health and a person disregards known health warnings and uses it anyway with sufficient knowledge and consent, it may be sinful for him to do so. Whether it is sinful or not depends on many factors, which include among others: personal moderation, the reliability of the science undergirding the health warnings; knowledge of the warnings; and consent to the action, which may be compromised by habits acquired before reliable scientific studies were made public or by habits acquired before personal knowledge of the health risks became known to the individual. Those smokers uncertain of personal culpability should consult with their confessor.”

As you have pointed out Tobacco HAS been proven to be harmful. Therefore tobacco users are not been given a pass. Those Catholics who would argue otherwise are simply looking for a way out.