Frustrations with friendships and staying single

[Prodigal_Son]

I am frustrated by the fact that there is so little support for children and adults who are same sex attracted.

That bothers me, too.

It bothers me greatly that there is no research and study into why people become SSA and how to help them. It’s just not good that there are only a few places where there is therapy.

I don’t know of a type of therapy that has been shown to eliminate SSA. There are good therapies to treat compulsive behavior, but that’s not the same thing (although they sometimes overlap, certainly).

We would make a huge step if we simply had a clear context in which kids in church were encouraged to talk to nurturing adults about various shame-connected problems – like homosexuality, sexual or physical abuse, anorexia, cutting, and the like. As long as children think adults “don’t want to know”, they won’t tell them.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

We would make a huge step if we simply had a clear context in which kids in church were encouraged to talk to nurturing adults about various shame-connected problems – like homosexuality, sexual or physical abuse, anorexia, cutting, and the like. As long as children think adults “don’t want to know”, they won’t tell them.

You have got to be kidding me!

You want people (children) in Church (whatever that means, I assume not Mass) to talk to adults about homosexuality!?

As a former youth minister your statement draws much concern. While these things often come up in youth ministry and are usually handled appropriately. Safe environment training forbids the type of interaction one-on-one “context” you wish to have. We have laws and protocol to follow. And as a parent, the last thing I want is some yahoo volunteer that went to some sort of “sensitivity training”: talking to my kids about SSA, cutting or any other thing. Not only are you asking for a recipe for abuse and disaster but you are also putting forth the idea that any youth minister is equipped to handle this.

Lamenting these things is a fruitless endeavor.

But I do see your problem. I just think the problem is for a priest. A True minister. But sadly they have been handcuffed by the scandals and the idea that a priest is no more than an administrator or CEO that occasionally says Mass.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am frustrated by the fact that there is so little support for children and adults who are same sex attracted. It bothers me greatly that there is no research and study into why people become SSA and how to help them. It’s just not good that there are only a few places where there is therapy.

When God created this world and placed people on it, it was his intent that people found themselves caring for one another, being in love and supporting one another. This dog eat dog world frustrates me.

Aside from the almost heroization of the secular world providing an overreaction of support for SSA people, what would you like to see? Specifically with regards to children? At what age should the intricacies and complexities of SSA be taken out of the hands of the parents and given to the laity?

 

[DarkLight]

Aside from the almost heroization of the secular world providing an overreaction of support for SSA people, what would you like to see? Specifically with regards to children? At what age should the intricacies and complexities of SSA be taken out of the hands of the parents and given to the laity?

When I was young, I didn’t know. I knew homosexuality was a bad sinful thing, but I didn’t know how Christians dealt with it or even that Christians had it. It was too tied up in my mind with promiscuity. All I knew was that I had thoughts that weren’t how good Christian girls thought. I knew that I was supposed to be interested in men but I wasn’t and that was a thing I’d better keep to myself. Looking back, I doubt my parents would have had any idea whatsoever how to handle it - I’d probably simply have been punished and told to pray more. And I would likely stand to be losing many friends, as even if they didn’t leave their parents wouldn’t want them associating with a homosexual.

That’s not helpful. In fact it probably makes things worse. As a kid in that environment you aren’t taught to handle things appropriately. The end result is that you come out feeling like you’re irremediably bad because you have these urges and they don’t go away. The secular world comes in and talks about love and acceptance and you go for it, because those are necessary things that you aren’t getting in the church. Not really, not if they were conditional on pretending you had attractions you didn’t and didn’t have attractions you had.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

You have got to be kidding me!

You want people (children) in Church (whatever that means, I assume not Mass) to talk to adults about homosexuality!?

As a former youth minister your statement draws much concern. While these things often come up in youth ministry and are usually handled appropriately. Safe environment training forbids the type of interaction one-on-one “context” you wish to have. We have laws and protocol to follow. And as a parent, the last thing I want is some yahoo volunteer that went to some sort of “sensitivity training”: talking to my kids about SSA, cutting or any other thing. Not only are you asking for a recipe for abuse and disaster but you are also putting forth the idea that any youth minister is equipped to handle this.

Lamenting these things is a fruitless endeavor.

So let me get this straight – we put kids in a youth ministry environment where WE don’t trust the adults to be adults. And then we just let the kids suffer in silence because of it? Are you serious?

If youth ministers aren’t adult enough to handle these things correctly, they shouldn’t be allowed to minister. If that means we have smaller youth ministries, good. Kids don’t need Catholic social clubs. They need discipleship. Only mature adults can provide discipleship. And mature adults can be trusted to have 1-on-1 conversations about serious topics with teenagers.

I mean, look – if a child is being abused by his or her parents, who *should *they tell? They need someone safe and accessible. A youth minister is the obvious choice. We need real trustworthy grown ups to listen to them and show them Christlike love.

I guess you haven’t seen how this works. I’ve been in college ministry, and this is how it works. You have large group ministry times, and in it, young people can pull aside ministers to talk 1-on-1. You’re all in a big room together; it’s not like the two people are in a room alone. Those contexts are precisely the contexts that I came closest to talking to people about my issues as a teen. I did talk to them about my porn addiction actually, just didn’t mention the SSA. But if they had specifically told me that SSA was something they wanted to hear about, I would have been more likely to talk to someone.

I didn’t talk to anyone until I was 22. I don’t blame anyone but myself for that – but there are ways that it could have been made easier.

But I do see your problem. I just think the problem is for a priest. A True minister. But sadly they have been handcuffed by the scandals and the idea that a priest is no more than an administrator or CEO that occasionally says Mass.

Priests generally don’t have time for building a relationship, and that’s what a child like this needs. A relationship in which they can share openly about their struggles in an ongoing way – not merely confession and forgiveness, though that is an absolutely essential aspect.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

When I was young, I didn’t know. I knew homosexuality was a bad sinful thing, but I didn’t know how Christians dealt with it or even that Christians had it. It was too tied up in my mind with promiscuity. All I knew was that I had thoughts that weren’t how good Christian girls thought. I knew that I was supposed to be interested in men but I wasn’t and that was a thing I’d better keep to myself. Looking back, I doubt my parents would have had any idea whatsoever how to handle it - I’d probably simply have been punished and told to pray more. And I would likely stand to be losing many friends, as even if they didn’t leave their parents wouldn’t want them associating with a homosexual.

That’s not helpful. In fact it probably makes things worse. As a kid in that environment you aren’t taught to handle things appropriately. The end result is that you come out feeling like you’re irremediably bad because you have these urges and they don’t go away. The secular world comes in and talks about love and acceptance and you go for it, because those are necessary things that you aren’t getting in the church. Not really, not if they were conditional on pretending you had attractions you didn’t and didn’t have attractions you had.

Yeah, I know.

 

[PrayerShark]

That’s exactly my point, all of those relationships change too. When someone marries, their relationship with their same sex friends and their family of origin become very different. They are around less, their spouse is usually around when they are, they can’t make plans or decisions without talking to their spouse, and their spouse’s wants and needs become the top priority.

This change is notoriously hard for moms, but in my family, it was one of my husband’s brothers that had the hardest time with it.

If all of these non threatening relationships change to accommodate a marriage, it would make sense that a “deep” or “intimate” friendship with an unrelated member of the opposite sex would as well.

That’s not exactly what I meant. I was alluding more to the point given that you’ve expressed how you would feel about your husband opening up to another woman, would you feel the same sense of betrayal if your husband went to his mother or father (immediate family) before you? Because, while I have no doubt you’re an awesome, loving, drop-dead gorgeous wife and all - there might be some things your husband would feel more comfortable talking about with someone else? Example: you could be in a bad mood or a topic that terribly upsets you.

 

[PrayerShark]

May I also ask why there is a tendency on here to refer to gay and lesbian people as ‘those that suffer SSA?’ Is there some kind of cypher I missed reading when joining up here? Are there are others I should be aware of? e.g. Winky-Wink = Penis.

Beyond the fact that I hate acronyms (I mean hear enough of that BS at work along with ‘taking it offline’ and ‘elevator pitches’), it’s also more of a mouthful to say.

 

[DarkLight]

May I also ask why there is a tendency on here to refer to gay and lesbian people as ‘those that suffer SSA?’ Is there some kind of cypher I missed reading when joining up here? Are there are others I should be aware of? e.g. Winky-Wink = Penis.

Beyond the fact that I hate acronyms (I mean hear enough of that BS at work along with ‘taking it offline’ and ‘elevator pitches’), it’s also more of a mouthful to say.

It’s because a lot of people here associate “gay” and “lesbian” and “homosexual” with active practice. Personally I think it’s a little silly, but I’ve seen one too many forum arguments to want to bother with another one.

 

[Xantippe]

That’s not exactly what I meant. I was alluding more to the point given that you’ve expressed how you would feel about your husband opening up to another woman, would you feel the same sense of betrayal if your husband went to his mother or father (immediate family) before you? Because, while I have no doubt you’re an awesome, loving, drop-dead gorgeous wife and all - there might be some things your husband would feel more comfortable talking about with someone else? Example: you could be in a bad mood or a topic that terribly upsets you.

Eh, that’s going to potentially cause a lot of offense when the spouse finds out about it. “You talked to your mom before you talked to me!!!”

I can’t even imagine me or my husband doing that, unless something was terribly wrong at home (terminal illness, mental illness, etc.). Normally, sensitive stuff stays “in house.”

 

[BlueEyedLady]

That’s not exactly what I meant. I was alluding more to the point given that you’ve expressed how you would feel about your husband opening up to another woman, would you feel the same sense of betrayal if your husband went to his mother or father (immediate family) before you? Because, while I have no doubt you’re an awesome, loving, drop-dead gorgeous wife and all - there might be some things your husband would feel more comfortable talking about with someone else? Example: you could be in a bad mood or a topic that terribly upsets you.

I couldn’t imagine that happening and if it did I think there would be a big problem.

Issues need to stay in the family and in the marriage. If I’m very sick and in the hospital and he needs someone to lean on, that’s one thing. If I’m “in a bad mood” or he would be “more comfortable” with his mom/dad/sister/brother I think that we would have a very big problem and I would be extremely hurt. That’s just not really something that married people do. Again, it comes down to the exclusive nature of marriage

 

[Xantippe]

I couldn’t imagine that happening and if it did I think there would be a big problem.

Issues need to stay in the family and in the marriage. If I’m very sick and in the hospital and he needs someone to lean on, that’s one thing. If I’m “in a bad mood” or he would be “more comfortable” with his mom/dad/sister/brother I think that we would have a very big problem and I would be extremely hurt. That’s just not really something that married people do. Again, it comes down to the exclusive nature of marriage

Yes.

I think if a spouse is actually abusive, it’s important to reach for help, but in a normal marriage, when both spouses are physically well, mentally well, and not abusive, sharing information with outsiders is a major offense. (And that goes double for MIL.)

If you’re planning a birthday party or some other enjoyable surprise, you can get a special exception.

 

[maryjk]

That’s not exactly what I meant. I was alluding more to the point given that you’ve expressed how you would feel about your husband opening up to another woman, would you feel the same sense of betrayal if your husband went to his mother or father (immediate family) before you?

Yes, I would feel the same sense of betrayal. If my husband has a problem, he comes to me. Same thing happens if I have a problem. I go to him.

Because, while I have no doubt you’re an awesome, loving, drop-dead gorgeous wife and all - there might be some things your husband would feel more comfortable talking about with someone else? Example: you could be in a bad mood or a topic that terribly upsets you.

What do looks have to do with it?

Basically, if a husband or wife needs to talk to someone that someone should be their spouse. Especially if the problem is with the spouse. (Of course abusive relationships are different.)

The last person to talk to, if you have a problem with your spouse, is your family.

 

[Xantippe]

The last person to talk to, if you have a problem with your spouse, is your family.

Yes. Even if you forget, they won’t forget.

Don’t do that unless you are actually planning a divorce.

 

[bsf]

I understand very little about SSA. Some of the posts I have read in this thread and others, though, present very clearly the anguish faithful Christians having SSA experience.

I have been following this thread daily, but will not be able to read the most recent posts till later. However, some posters may find the following helpful.

Catholic Answers Radio
Living with Same-Sex Attraction
Monday, Aug 25, 2014 - 7pm ET
Daniel Mattson

Also, Dr. Joseph Nicolosi has also been on the show numerous times to discuss SSA, including Reparative Therapy.

 

[PrayerShark]

Xantippe:

I can’t even imagine me or my husband doing that, unless something was terribly wrong at home (terminal illness, mental illness, etc.). Normally, sensitive stuff stays “in house.”

You’re a woman? Okay, for some reason I thought you were a guy.

BlueEyedLady:

I couldn’t imagine that happening and if it did I think there would be a big problem.

Issues need to stay in the family and in the marriage. If I’m very sick and in the hospital and he needs someone to lean on, that’s one thing. If I’m “in a bad mood” or he would be “more comfortable” with his mom/dad/sister/brother I think that we would have a very big problem and I would be extremely hurt.

That’s just not really something that married people do. Again, it comes down to the exclusive nature of marriage

Ditto for:

Xantippe:

… … …

maryjk:

… … …

You’re assuming that all people are emotionally stable enough to handle the problems of their significant other. I think exclusiveness needs to fall within the parameters of reason, otherwise we’re placing God-like expectations on mere mortals.

 

[PrayerShark]

Yes. Even if you forget, they won’t forget.

Don’t do that unless you are actually planning a divorce.

This assumes that you’re family isn’t supportive. My family isn’t perfect, but they’ve always been there for me - rock solid. No problem to big.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

This assumes that you’re family isn’t supportive. My family isn’t perfect, but they’ve always been there for me - rock solid. No problem to big.

Nope. Ultimate betrayal. If you complain to your family about something your spouse has done, they will always remember the incident, even after you’ve long forgiven and forgotten. It’s only natural, they want what is best for their loved one. You have an obligation to present your spouse to your friends and family in the best possible light. That’s not a risk you should take.

You should never share anything with anyone without your spouse’s explicit permission first.

 

[Xantippe]

You’re a woman? Okay, for some reason I thought you were a guy.

No problem. Xantippe (or Xanthippe) was the name of Socrates’ wife.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanthippe

 

[Xantippe]

Nope. Ultimate betrayal. If you complain to your family about something your spouse has done, they will always remember the incident, even after you’ve long forgiven and forgotten. It’s only natural, they want what is best for their loved one. You have an obligation to present your spouse to your friends and family in the best possible light. That’s not a risk you should take.

You should never share anything with anyone without your spouse’s explicit permission first.

Yes. With the usual fine print.

Your spouse does not want to be the last to find important stuff out or to have their personal information shared. (“Mom, Jeffrey has low sperm count!!! I don’t know what I’m going to do!!!”)

If you must share intimate details, share with somebody who has built-in rules about confidentiality (like a therapist or a priest) or a far away friend, rather than sharing it with your mom. It doesn’t matter how supportive mom is–the more supportive she is, the worse of a betrayal it may be seen as. You’re married to your wife, not your mom.

In-law boundary issues are one of the big ones that kill marriages.

Of course, if your spouse doesn’t care, go right ahead.