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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I see civil discourse has left.
BEL is a longtime poster and her knowledge of the faith rivals many apologists.
If your comment was in jest, it was in poor taste.
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BEL is a longtime poster and her knowledge of the faith rivals many apologists.
If your comment was in jest, it was in poor taste.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
There is a natural tension between married couples and their families of origin. Even if everyone is kind, loving, supportive, and generous, there is still a natural tension. And why wouldn’t there be? Suddenly, decades long familial relationships are forever changed. People who once held the top spot in a person’s life have now been relegated behind the wants and needs of a new spouse. It’s natural, it isn’t a bad thing, but it isn’t always easy. It’s just human nature and needs to be navigated with care.
A big step to making sure this goes smoothly and that everyone is respected is to first and foremost, respect the privacy of your marriage. If you can’t do that, then how will you expect anyone else to?
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maryjk
Guest
Seems that everyone else understood my post. Which part of it did you not understand?
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SpeakKindly
Guest
Have you given any thought to a celibate life as a nun?
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PrayerShark
Guest
Civil discourse? Does that even happen on this forum? Generally speaking, I find the tone from a lot of the member-base to be aggressive and judgemental, such that most of these threads read like arguments.
I used heathen as a term of endearment, so you can get off your high horse.
I respectfully disagree. My family never had a rank and file order to it, there was no ‘top spot’ (mum and dad were always a united front) and no expectation that one person’s needs came before another’s. But that’s my family and my experience, your mileage may vary.
It doesn’t matter now, I’ve gotten rather bored with this topic and happy to agree to disagree.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
PrayerShark;12289821 said:
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Xantippe
Guest
If the wife is just one of many “stake holders”, it’s inevitable that she will get out-voted by her in-laws and repeatedly–there’s so many of them and just one of her. And if we then bring in her side of the family to “vote”–oh, boy, are you in for fun! That’s why a “democratic” approach doesn’t work when weighing a spouse’s and families’ of origins wishes. Sensible people in Western cultures keep their parents and parents in-law at a polite distance from couple decisions.
Hint: all things being equal (and barring very unreasonable desires), spouse ought to get an automatic majority vote if there is a disagreement with your mom or dad.
You cannot really compare equality between spouses to “equality” between spouse and in-law in your decision-making. Those are totally different things.
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Xantippe
Guest
Yes, not to mention division of holidays between your family and her family of origin or the question of how much time and authority the grandmas and grandpas should have over the kids. Maybe grandma doesn’t understand why babies need to nap on their backs–but she still wants to babysit. Or grandpa has a tendency to set the baby down on a bed or sofa and wander off to get coffee and check his email–there are a million things that come up when dealing with people of a different generation.
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PrayerShark
Guest
Sorry, but I can’t say there was. I’m trying really hard to think of something, but nothing comes to mind. I wouldn’t have said this when I was a teenager but my parents are pretty cool.
Things will surely be different as we’re not my parents (although I’m finding myself slowly turning into my father…), but their example will certainly influence how I raise my own kids. Really, I can only speculate on what has yet to transpire. I could be dead before we get to kids. Only God knows.
May I ask what experiences you (everyone above) had with your own in-laws and parents that juxtapose mine (only if you want to of course and it’s not too intrusive)?
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Xantippe
Guest
We’ve been married 16 years. We initially had a lot of hostility to our engagement from one set of parents, followed by about 10 years of not speaking to us from one of the parents.
We live 2,000 miles from both sets of in-laws, which simplifies things considerably (except when trying to visit grandmas and grandpas).
These days, we have the following situation:
- My parents are nice and easy to get along with, but are pretty minimalistic about putting an effort into to the relationship with us. They pretty much never call (I call them probably something like 95% of the time) and have visited us a grand total of 4 times over the last 16 years. We get cards and birthday and Christmas gifts from them, but that’s about it.
- My in-laws, on the other hand, are quite different. They are “ethnic” and immigrants whereas my family is WASP. They have a much more hands-on style of parenting adult children. For a while, my MIL wanted my kids to call her “mom” too, as she thought “grandma” sounded too old. ??? She’s fortunately gotten over the idea. MIL also tends to think of herself as being my mom, too, and signs herself “mom.” I, on the other hand, already have a mom, so that makes me uncomfortable. I’d like to call her by her first name instead (as my parents did their in-laws), but it hasn’t happened. Neither in-law seems to have noticed that their son is now a middle aged man. MIL is full of advice. On the bright side, they are very eager to help financially, and during visits, they put a lot of effort into the grandchildren.
Every family is a little different, but there are recurrent patterns.
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maryjk
Guest
I said it when I was a teen, my parents were great. And they continued to be great as I aged.
They loved my husband as if he was their own, but didn’t try to displace his own parents. He called them by their first names, but he was closer to my parents than his own.
My parents were very understanding of my husband and me wanting to make our own traditions, but they welcomed us into theirs.
They were terrific grandparents to our son. Spoiled him and loved him like storybook grandparents.
We had a wonderful relationship with my parents, but it was certainly a different relationship than I had as a child. When I married, I left my parents and became one with my husband. My parents respected that.
Our relationship with my husband’s parents is totally different. They haven’t liked me since day one. We essentially had a Cold War going on for about 19 years, and for the past 6, they haven’t spoken to us.
During the Cold War, they expected my husband to drop everything when they needed him, and come to their aid. They dropped in unexpectedly and thought we should be really and willing to have house guests. More than one time, they came by and asked, “What’s for dinner?” They actually walked into our house, while my husband and I were in the bedroom. My MIL, started walking back toward the bedroom to find us. She couldn’t imagine what we might be doing.
They regularly expected us to show up at their house for holidays at a certain time, even after we explained that we had to attend Mass. They were upset when they came to our house for holidays only to find that my parents were also invited.
When we married, they still treated me like a girlfriend of my husband. They have never understood that my husband and I became a family when we married. When they were speaking to us, they acted as though I was a third wheel.
We have been married for almost 23 years.
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pensmama87
Guest
This is my life!
But my in-laws are only an hour away (except when they vacation a few months out of the year and are 1,000 miles away.) The first two weeks they are gone I practically float through the house, and after that I miss the free babysitting. They are helpful, and they love us, but it’s a tad too Everybody Loves Raymond for my taste.
Over the weekend we were at their house, and my MIL was telling us about a boy my husband grew up with and how neglectful he was of his parents because he “only bothers to call once a week.”
I’ve had to have several conversations with my husband about keeping certain stuff to us and NOT them, especially finances.
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Xantippe
Guest
Ha!Over the weekend we were at their house, and my MIL was telling us about a boy my husband grew up with and how neglectful he was of his parents because he “only bothers to call once a week.”
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DarkLight
Guest
At least the how much to tell my parents would be a very easy decision if I ever got married…
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Xantippe
Guest
Easy to know, hard to implement.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
My experiences aren’t anything terrible. My husband and I both come from very loving, supportive families who have been wonderful about our relationship. But there were natural growing pains that occur when familial relationships (or any relationships) are forced to change in a big way.
Just off the top of my head:
One of his brothers always had a very hard time including me in things, and was extremely resentful of me ‘encroaching’ on his family time. When my hubby and I moved in together, not getting as much alone time was a big problem for him.
The amount of privacy that we required when he had cancer and when through treatment was hard on many in his family. But we were both very uncomfortable with the idea of them coming with us to appointments and treatments, staying with us after his surgeries, etc. We just needed to be alone.
His mom is uncomfortable with my stance on money. She is very wealthy and I grew up poor. I am a big believer in making do without, DIY, and buying secondhand. Watching her son go from an upper-class kid to slumming it with me was pretty difficult for her.
My husband has a very serious problem with food that he has only really been able to overcome in the last couple of years. My mom is a Paula Deen-style cook, and coming up to see us always annoys her. She doesn’t understand why my husband and I won’t go out for cream-and-butter-fried-this-and-baked-goods-galore-that with her. But taking “one day off” can and has caused my husband to fall off the wagon in big ways in the past.
My husband and I always stay in a hotel when we travel to see family. My family is totally fine with that, but his has always been a little miffed.
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PrayerShark
Guest
Thank you all for sharing. I’m not sure if it’s helped DarkLight in any way with her original question, but at least it’s given her a sample point-of-view from some of the married couples on here.
Maybe we can synthesise some of what has been mentioned to help out though. Here’s a list of what I think we’ve brought up:
Maybe we can synthesise some of what has been mentioned to help out though. Here’s a list of what I think we’ve brought up:
*]The wife and the husband are one and inseparable,
*]Marriages have boundaries that are enforced by the vows of the sacrament or at least a secular contract,
*]Marriage may in some cases disrupt friendships and familial relationships,
*]Single life can be lonely,
*]Single life can be very lonely if your family fails you,
*]Single life can be very, very lonely if your family fails you and your gay AND a practicing Catholic,
*]Sometimes people just need someone to talk to without trespassing on established bonds,
*]We are only human
There’s probably more things I’ve missed so feel free to expand or correct the list. But can we harmonise something here? Something to help out DarkLight?
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Sling_Shot
Guest
Hello DarkLight,
I’m sorry to hear you are going through this. I hope some of the responses you have received have given you some guidance and comfort. I just want to tell you that you are not alone. And, as another poster said, the 20’s and 30’s are super tough - but I barely survived my teens! So, life is tough, we’re not home yet.
Friends are valuable. Keep God first, and continue to walk the painful road toward home.
“Your word is a lamp unto my feet; a light unto my path.” (Ps 119:105) Step by step!
You are in my prayers,
~SS
I’m sorry to hear you are going through this. I hope some of the responses you have received have given you some guidance and comfort. I just want to tell you that you are not alone. And, as another poster said, the 20’s and 30’s are super tough - but I barely survived my teens! So, life is tough, we’re not home yet.
I hope you can find a way, step by step, to thrive in your singleness. I don’t want to dilute what you are saying, by claiming to know exactly, but I also struggled, for much of my life, with a fear of physical intimacy. I loved being single, too, and was not at all on the lookout when I pretty much crashed into my husband. It was never ooey-gooey, we went through a lot, but now we’re recently married and the struggle continues - like, where are some young adult friends for US??
I too have been trying to find deep, meaningful relationships. My husband and I can talk about anything and everything, which is wonderful, but I would love for him/me/us to have some other friends who are like-minded, striving to lead virtuous lives, and might enjoy chatting over a beer. If I had stayed in my home state after marriage, I would have been spending time with my friends and family, cooking dinner for my folks, watching my husband debate politics with my uncle… I don’t understand when people get married and only spend time with each other. We’ve been married less than two months and wish we had some local friends to invite over, but we’re still so new to the area. Anyway, all that blathering was just to say, a spouse isn’t the “only one” you have a deep relationship with. I talk to my dad, best girlfriend, and brother about deep and meaningful things that I don’t get into as much with my husband. Not that those subjects are forbidden secrets, just… there are things he thinks and talks to me about - be it God, history, or squirrels - that don’t overlap with what I talk to my friends/family about. My husband is an invaluable part of my sanctification, but he’s not the *only *part.
A few years ago, I stayed and volunteered with a religious order. The priest was very wise, very well-read, and would often recount lives of saints or virtuous people in history and literature. He emphasized: saints are surrounded by saints. What he meant by that was: it is essential to holiness to place yourself in the company of holy people. Of course, you don’t have to hang out with a bunch of nuns, but all I’m saying is that all throughout life, it is important to have friends. Aristotle talked about the different kinds of friendship: that of utility (like your neighbor who lends you his tools), pleasure (people whose company you enjoy, often you share a specific hobby or activity together) and the virtuous friendship, the one where both parties aid each other in living the good life. I think a good marriage perhaps has elements of all three, but most certainly must have the last quality. I think many of my friendships are a blend of the last two, with a different balance depending on who it is. I just want to assure you that it is important to have good friends, but also remind you (and myself) that no one person is going to be our “everything” person. I encourage you to get to know the wives of your friends, have a group gathering, and don’t be afraid to still talk about some of those deep things - not the same relationship-centered things you talked about before marriage, but perhaps talk about life goals, how to handle suffering, thoughts you had in prayer, a meaningful movie, even…
Friends are valuable. Keep God first, and continue to walk the painful road toward home.
“Your word is a lamp unto my feet; a light unto my path.” (Ps 119:105) Step by step!
You are in my prayers,
~SS
J
Joie_de_Vivre
Guest
I wonder when this historically aberrant modernist idea that your spouse should be your confidant(e) crept into Catholic society. On marriage a man and woman become one flesh, not one soul.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
What good could possibly come from having a closer emotional relationship with someone other than your spouse? What service would that be to your children? Why would want to marry someone who wasn’t even the closest person to you? For their flesh (sex)?
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