FSSP and SSPX

[pnewton]

Just one point…he didn’t pass on “what he considered the true Church”…he passed down what he was given…The true, authentic, Catholic faith…unadulterated and not watered down.

The previous wording was more generic and less judgemental, therefore more accurate,. Saying “I’m right” more emphatically does not make it so, or change opinion into fact.

 

[pnewton]

“Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ”–St. Athanasius

Wherever the Bishop appears, there let the multitude of the people be; just as where Christ Jesus is, there is the catholic church - St. Ignatius

“The true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but men of tradition”–Pope St. Pius X.

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Jesus

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

That is the summation of the work of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

Wherever the Bishop appears, there let the multitude of the people be; just as where Christ Jesus is, there is the catholic church - St. Ignatius

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Jesus

 

[ProVobis]

Pope Benedict has basically acknowledged the possibility of a larger schism. He commented previously that in the future the Church may be much smaller but more faithful (or something to that effect). Jesus said those who aren’t for Him are against Him, and it’s time for the liberal bishops, laity, etc. to either repent or leave the Church – no in-between.

I believe it was either the French bishops or German bishops who actually threatened a schism had the Pope gone through the actual SP as he wanted. The final SP was watered down to make it more palatable for them.

So why isn’t threatening a schism grounds for excommunication? Isn’t this similar to the crime of extortion? Just asking, not accusing.

 

[Ockham]

The Austrian bishops nearly went into schism when the Pope wanted to ordain a ‘conservative’ to their ranks.

 

[CWBetts]

The difference between the FSSP ans the SSPX, and there is really no denying this, is that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, when said by an FSSP priest, is both valid and licit. On the other hand, while SSPX Masses are valid, they are not licit. That being the case, I would avoid the SSPX until the situation is rectified.

 

[Ockham]

The difference between the FSSP ans the SSPX, and there is really no denying this, is that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, when said by an FSSP priest, is both valid and licit. On the other hand, while SSPX Masses are valid, they are not licit. That being the case, I would avoid the SSPX until the situation is rectified.

Is the only difference between valid and licit that one fulfills your weekly obligation and the other doesn’t?

 

[Lormar]

Since I know you’ve all been waiting for my opinion , here it is.

Archbishop Lefebvre should have obeyed JPII and waited to see what the Vatican would have done regarding the bishops. I have spent years with them, so there’s nothing you can tell me in their defense. I’ve read almost every book in print about him. He was wrong.

And here’s one more thing. An FSSP priest told me that before Lefebvre died, he was reconciled to the Church by an FSSP priest. Don’t jump on me for this one. This is what I was told by an FSSP priest. Either he lied to me, or the SSPX isn’t telling their “faithful” something.

The bottom line is this. The Church needs every faithful Catholic that they can get their hands on right now. We could topple what is left of that aging and tiresome sixties crowd if every Catholic that was operating from outside the official Catholic Church would march right back into their parishes and take it back for Our Lord.

 

[Ockham]

Since I know you’ve all been waiting for my opinion , here it is.

Archbishop Lefebvre should have obeyed JPII and waited to see what the Vatican would have done regarding the bishops. I have spent years with them, so there’s nothing you can tell me in their defense. I’ve read almost every book in print about him. He was wrong.

What if the Archbishop had died prior to ordaining ‘replacement’ bishops?

 

[Lormar]

What if the Archbishop had died prior to ordaining ‘replacement’ bishops?

I was once like you and thought the same way.

Do you really think that Our Lord would have been stymied because the Archbishop kicked the bucket before “replacement bishops” were consecrated? Do you honestly think that everything wouldn’t have worked out? Who is in charge here? Our Lord or the Archbishop? Whose Church is it?

 

[Ockham]

Christ is the head of the Church, but mortals with free will run it. The Church hasn’t been free from conspiracy or sin. Do you completely dismiss the chance of a hidden liberal agenda in the Vatican acting against the SSPX and other traditional practices?

 

[iluvburpees]

The difference between the FSSP ans the SSPX, and there is really no denying this, is that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, when said by an FSSP priest, is both valid and licit. On the other hand, while SSPX Masses are valid, they are not licit. That being the case, I would avoid the SSPX until the situation is rectified.

The difference between the FSSP and the SSPX is that the FSSP compromised with the liberals to say the Latin Mass, as long as they accept the Novus Ordo. The SSPX does not accept the new Faith that came out of the Council and the Post-VII period, and they thus they are the ones who are truly Catholic.

 

[Lormar]

Christ is the head of the Church, but mortals with free will run it. The Church hasn’t been free from conspiracy or sin. Do you completely dismiss the chance of a hidden liberal agenda in the Vatican acting against the SSPX and other traditional practices?

No. I do not deny it since I lived through it and was a victim of it.

But you do not go outside the Church to save It. Our Lord IS in charge you know - it is HIS Church.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

And do you really think it is impossible that God chose the late, great Archbishop to be His tool to ensure survival of The Church…all things are possible with God.

I was once like you and thought the same way.

Do you really think that Our Lord would have been stymied because the Archbishop kicked the bucket before “replacement bishops” were consecrated? Do you honestly think that everything wouldn’t have worked out? Who is in charge here? Our Lord or the Archbishop? Whose Church is it?

 

[ProVobis]

What if the Archbishop had died prior to ordaining ‘replacement’ bishops?

Well, to this day, 22 years later, there still aren’t any bishops in full communion who ordain men to say the TLM.

 

[Lormar]

And do you really think it is impossible that God chose the late, great Archbishop to be His tool to ensure survival of The Church…all things are possible with God.

If God did choose him, someone went astray. Since when would God use disobedience to the Vicar of Christ to teach His Church a lesson? Can’t you see right here at CAF how no one can get past that? So it matters not what the SSPX says. It doesn’t matter even if they are right, no one is going to listen because they are not in the Church!

Here. This is from a book I am sure you have read Iota Unum :

"…Nonetheless, quite apart from the fact that an abuse does not justify rejecting the thing abused, there is also the fact that the reform of the Church could only happen, and in the event did happen, in an orthodox way, thanks to men who were always convinced that Catholics could not be acting rightly unless they had the seal of approval of those same churchmen whose vices they continued to castigate even while recognizing their authority…"

 

[DavidJoseph]

Well, to this day, 22 years later, there still aren’t any bishops in full communion who ordain men to say the TLM.

Hold everything! What do you mean? What about those diocesan bishops who ordain FSSP priests? What about those who ordain ICRSS priests?

 

[ProVobis]

Hold everything! What do you mean? What about those diocesan bishops who ordain FSSP priests? What about those who ordain ICRSS priests?

I should have stated it differently. (In fact I deleted that note.) These priests are ordained to say both the OF and EF (and perhaps the Divine Liturgy as well?). Saying the Latin Mass exclusively is an afterthought. But since you bring up the FSSP and ICRSS, some of their priests, especially the original ones, were ordained by the SSPX bishops.

 

[giuseppeTO]

Is the only difference between valid and licit that one fulfills your weekly obligation and the other doesn’t?

They both fulfill your Sunday obligation.

 

[giuseppeTO]

Since I know you’ve all been waiting for my opinion , here it is.

Archbishop Lefebvre should have obeyed JPII and waited to see what the Vatican would have done regarding the bishops. I have spent years with them, so there’s nothing you can tell me in their defense. I’ve read almost every book in print about him. He was wrong.

And here’s one more thing. An FSSP priest told me that before Lefebvre died, he was reconciled to the Church by an FSSP priest. Don’t jump on me for this one. This is what I was told by an FSSP priest. Either he lied to me, or the SSPX isn’t telling their “faithful” something.

The bottom line is this. The Church needs every faithful Catholic that they can get their hands on right now. We could topple what is left of that aging and tiresome sixties crowd if every Catholic that was operating from outside the official Catholic Church would march right back into their parishes and take it back for Our Lord.

Yes … and I heard that Cardinal Siri was really elected Pope instead of John XXIII and I also heard that there was a fake Pope Paul VI whose nose didn’t match the original Pope.

I think there is already a board for fairy tales and conspiracy theories.