FSSP and SSPX

[Lormar]

Yes … and I heard that Cardinal Siri was really elected Pope instead of John XXIII and I also heard that there was a fake Pope Paul VI whose nose didn’t match the original Pope.

I think there is already a board for fairy tales and conspiracy theories.

Before I post my reply, would you be so kind as to clarify exactly what you mean?

 

[giuseppeTO]

I was once like you and thought the same way.

Do you really think that Our Lord would have been stymied because the Archbishop kicked the bucket before “replacement bishops” were consecrated? Do you honestly think that everything wouldn’t have worked out? Who is in charge here? Our Lord or the Archbishop? Whose Church is it?

The Lord is never stymied. He raises up saints like Marcel Lefebvre even when his bishops have all but abandoned him. It has happened before. I agree with you that Our Lord used the Archbishop to preserve the TLM against those who would have otherwise relegated it to the dust bin of the pre-modern enlightenment. No other sainted man had the courage to do what he did and through his efforts and his successors, some sanity will soon be imposed on the purposely ambiguous documents of Vatican II and their disastrous outcome that has laid waste to the church since then in the form of empty seminaries, aging priests, no nuns, non-practicing Catholics, and a large number of priests who do not believe in the True Presence.

Hows that for a laundry list?

 

[giuseppeTO]

Before I post my reply, would you be so kind as to clarify exactly what you mean?

… that your FSSP friend deals in fairy tales.

 

[Lormar]

Never mind. I see that you are a paid up, card carrying member. Know the type well.

 

[Lormar]

And spare me, please, the SSPX feigned indignance. You people are really boring.

Your loyalties are misplaced. Maybe someday you will get the grace to realize it.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

No…perhaps you, and others like you, will get the grace to “realize” there is a real problem in the Church today and it isn’t the SSPX

And spare me, please, the SSPX feigned indignance. You people are really boring.

Your loyalties are misplaced. Maybe someday you will get the grace to realize it.

 

[JMJ_coder]

The FSSP have remained always in full communion with the Holy See. The SSPX have not.

To me, the biggest issue with the SSPX is that they have failed in obedience to the lawful ecclesiastical authorities.

 

[Lormar]

No…perhaps you, and others like you, will get the grace to “realize” there is a real problem in the Church today and it isn’t the SSPX

Dum, I do not deny that there are many problems in the Church.

You and your brethren seem not to understand what I am trying to tell you. You do the Roman Catholic Church no good from where you are. You do not go outside the Church to save the Church.

Why don’t you come back in and help us instead of pontificating from your ivory towers?

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

It is apparent just being on this board a short time, the damage that heterdox bishops and priest and poorly catechized Catholics have done to The Catholic Church…and the fact that there is a huge chasm between what the “Fruit of VII Catholics” believe what the Church is and should be, vs. what the true, authentic, Catholic Church really is…it is a plague of heresy running rampant in every diocese…and the sad thing is that most Catholics don’t realize it…they welcome it with open arms because the people who should telling them to reject this cookie cutter, crayon theology are the ones endorsing it!!! St. Pius X would roll over in his grave and strip about 90% of the active Bishops, Cardinals, and priest of their faculties and laicize them…unless they repented and conformed to true Catholic teaching and Doctrine… if he were alive today and there would be a on of excommunications for all these CINO’s we have running around today

 

[JMJ_coder]

Here is a picture taken three weeks ago of a “borderline schismatic” priest of the SSPX offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass on perhaps the most privileged altar in the Vatican - in St Peter’s Basilica on the Clementine altar in the crypt below the main altar over the bones of St. Peter.

Apparently the Pope doesn’t hold quite the same views of the SSPX as some of the posters at C.A. I don’t think you’ll find many heretics or schismatics saying Mass down there.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y381dSFdwkM/S-Xyw8IOJYI/AAAAAAAAAQM/EohoqYgIfsw/s320/stpetermass-2.JPG

Forgive my possible ignorance, but that doesn’t look like the usual vestment of a SSPX priest, who I’ve never seen wearing anything but the fiddleback style chasuble.

 

[Lormar]

To me, the biggest issue with the SSPX is that they have failed in obedience to the lawful ecclesiastical authorities.

And have taught their people quite well to do the same. Do you have any idea of how hard it is to once again trust a Church which you have been taught to doubt and question constantly?

 

[JMJ_coder]

** Do you completely dismiss the chance of a hidden liberal agenda in the Vatican** acting against the SSPX and other traditional practices?

Absolutely, without hesitation.

 

[JMJ_coder]

And have taught their people quite well to do the same. Do you have any idea of how hard it is to once again trust a Church which you have been taught to doubt and question constantly?

Yes, the Eastern Orthodox being a 1000 year case study.

 

[Lormar]

It is apparent just being on this board a short time, the damage that heterdox bishops and priest and poorly catechized Catholics have done to The Catholic Church…and the fact that there is a huge chasm between what the “Fruit of VII Catholics” believe what the Church is and should be, vs. what the true, authentic, Catholic Church really is…it is a plague of heresy running rampant in every diocese…and the sad thing is that most Catholics don’t realize it…they welcome it with open arms because the people who should telling them to reject this cookie cutter, crayon theology are the ones endorsing it!!! St. Pius X would roll over in his grave and strip about 90% of the active Bishops, Cardinals, and priest of their faculties and laicize them…unless they repented and conformed to true Catholic teaching and Doctrine… if he were alive today and there would be a on of excommunications for all these CINO’s we have running around today

Are you saying that the only place in this world the the true faith resides today is within the SSPX? That they are the only Catholics left?

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

We refuse to accept error…as long as error is condoned, promulgated, and ignored…that is an impediment to reconciliation…It is not that the SSPX want to be separated…they didn’t leave The Church, they just lack a canonical status…so it is improper to say they are outside of The Church. There are some issues that need to be cleared up though. However, mark my words, there will be tons of Catholics shocked when they realize it is Rome who ends up making concessions to make this reconciliation work…not the SSPX. Because it is Rome who needs to make changes…not the SSPX. I am sure the fallout will be huge…there will be a Mass exodus to protestant churches when there are no more “Slain in the Spirit” Masses, Clown Masses, Polka Masses, false ecumenism, etc…and I say, good riddance. I want a Church that is authentically Catholic and who isn’t afraid of being authentically Catholic…and if the Traditional Latin Mass is offensive to some, then don’t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you…

Dum, I do not deny that there are many problems in the Church.

You and your brethren seem not to understand what I am trying to tell you. You do the Roman Catholic Church no good from where you are. You do not go outside the Church to save the Church.

Why don’t you come back in and help us instead of pontificating from your ivory towers?

 

[JMJ_coder]

We refuse to accept error…as long as error is condoned, promulgated, and ignored…that is an impediment to reconciliation…It is not that the SSPX want to be separated…they didn’t leave The Church, they just lack a canonical status…so it is improper to say they are outside of The Church. There are some issues that need to be cleared up though. However, mark my words, there will be tons of Catholics shocked when they realize it is Rome who ends up making concessions to make this reconciliation work…not the SSPX. Because it is Rome who needs to make changes…not the SSPX. I am sure the fallout will be huge…there will be a Mass exodus to protestant churches when there are no more “Slain in the Spirit” Masses, Clown Masses, Polka Masses, false ecumenism, etc…and I say, good riddance. I want a Church that is authentically Catholic and who isn’t afraid of being authentically Catholic…and if the Traditional Latin Mass is offensive to some, then don’t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you…

That’s the basic party line of the Eastern Orthodox as well.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

I am saying that it is clear to me, that they have never abandoned the faith for what is most expedient at the time…following the example of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, they passed down what was handed to them, i.e. authentic Catholic teaching and doctrine…and never waivered or accepted deals in order to get them to submit to something that in good conscience as a Catholic they could not do. They are principled and have never sold out…regardless of what threats they received from Rome…even when Rome overstepped their bounds with threats they could not legitimately carry out.

Are you saying that the only place in this world the the true faith resides today is within the SSPX? That they are the only Catholics left?

 

[Lormar]

We refuse to accept error…as long as error is condoned, promulgated, and ignored…that is an impediment to reconciliation…It is not that the SSPX want to be separated…they didn’t leave The Church, they just lack a canonical status…so it is improper to say they are outside of The Church. There are some issues that need to be cleared up though. However, mark my words, there will be tons of Catholics shocked when they realize it is Rome who ends up making concessions to make this reconciliation work…not the SSPX. Because it is Rome who needs to make changes…not the SSPX. I am sure the fallout will be huge…there will be a Mass exodus to protestant churches when there are no more “Slain in the Spirit” Masses, Clown Masses, Polka Masses, false ecumenism, etc…and I say, good riddance. I want a Church that is authentically Catholic and who isn’t afraid of being authentically Catholic…and if the Traditional Latin Mass is offensive to some, then don’t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you…

Oh my! I say good riddance to all of that nonsense too, but how are you helping to get rid of it from where you are?

Dum Spiro, I’ve been where you are. As a matter of fact, I was once like you.

God bless you. We’ll still be here when the scales fall from your eyes.

 

[Lormar]

I am saying that it is clear to me, that they have never abandoned the faith for what is most expedient at the time…following the example of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, they passed down what was handed to them, i.e. authentic Catholic teaching and doctrine…and never waivered or accepted deals in order to get them to submit to something that in good conscience as a Catholic they could not do. They are principled and have never sold out…regardless of what threats they received from Rome…even when Rome overstepped their bounds with threats they could not legitimately carry out.

Yes, they did sell out. When they told JPII to go fly a kite, they sold out. The SSPX made the same mistake that Fr. Leonard Feeney made - disobedience. Much better to make your point when you follow the rules and regulations of the Church you are trying to save from Herself.

 

[CradleCath]

QUOTE=Lormar;6683173]Since I know you’ve all been waiting for my opinion , here it is.

Archbishop Lefebvre should have obeyed JPII and waited to see what the Vatican would have done regarding the bishops. I have spent years with** them**, so there’s nothing you can tell me in their defense.

Just a question or two. Are you saying that you have spent years with the SSPX?? And when you speak of “in theri defense”…again are you speaking of the SSPX?

I’ve read almost every book in print about him. He was wrong.

Archbishop Lefebvre?

And here’s one more thing. An FSSP priest told me that before Lefebvre died, he was reconciled to the Church by an FSSP priest. Don’t jump on me for this one. This is what I was told by an FSSP priest. Either he lied to me, or the SSPX isn’t telling their “faithful” something.

The bottom line is this. The Church needs every faithful Catholic that they can get their hands on right now. We could topple what is left of that aging and tiresome sixties crowd if every Catholic that was operating from outside the official Catholic Church would march right back into their parishes and take it back for Our Lord.

ABSOLUTELY. This is one of the reasons that I pray for the complete return of the SSPX.