Fsspx

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blessed_is_He
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Blessed_is_He

Guest
What is the FSSPX? Are they valid and are they part of SSPX?
 
The FSSP is not a part of SSPX. The FSSP is a fraternal organization of priests started by John Paul 2 and is completely loyal to the Holy Father.
 
It’s the same society. The “F” stands for Fraternal.

Sometimes,when we speak about an institute, we tend to be brief by leaving out words. Maybe it’s the high tech era in which we live.
 
hooper496 said:
The FSSP is not a part of SSPX. The FSSP is a fraternal organization of priests started by John Paul 2 and is completely loyal to the Holy Father.
Click to expand...
The question was about the FSSPX, not the FSSP. The SSPX has an F in front of its name. It’s legal name is FSSPX - Fraternal Society of St. Pius X.
 
JReducation said:
The question was about the FSSPX, not the FSSP. The SSPX has an F in front of its name. It’s legal name is FSSPX - Fraternal Society of St. Pius X.
Click to expand...
So then what’s the difference between the FSSP and FSSPX and SSPX
 
adawgj said:
So then what’s the difference between the FSSP and FSSPX and SSPX
Click to expand...
I am now confused as well. I thought the FSSP was the PRIESTLY FRATERNITY OF SAINT PETER and in communion with Rome.
 
adawgj said:
So then what’s the difference between the FSSP and FSSPX and SSPX
Click to expand...
FSSPX and SSPX is the same group. It’s just that most people drop the F.

FSSP was born out of several men who abandoned the SSPX when the Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated and the rest of them were suspended. These men did not want to be in a state of limbo. Not knowing what to do, a handful of them went to Rome to ask for help. They were helped by then Cardinal Ratzinger. Bl. John Paul set them up as the FSSP (Fraternal Society of St. Peter).

The FSSP is a traditionalist society, but it is in full communion with the Holy See. The FSSP is welcome in any diocese around the world. Some of its members work in diocesan ministries while others run parishes for the local bishops. The FSSP also has very good relationships with religious orders around them.

They accept the writings of Vatican II as they are, the CCC, and the Ordinary Form of the Mass. They agree that the Ordinary Form of the Mass is valid and licit. That it is without error.

Like many of us, they recognize that people have inserted nonsense into the OF, but that such nonsense was never in the missal itself. Therefore, it can be taken out and properly disposed of.

The SSPX, on the other hand, finds some documents of Vatican II problematic. It also believes that the Ordinary Form of the mass is valid, but “bad”. Bishop Fellay has gone down on record as saying that he will not make a distinction between licit and illicit. He just wants to say that the new mass is bad. This is a problem. You cannot call bad what the Church uses as are ordinary form of worship of the Triune God. To do so is to say that the Church is using something bad to worship God. This leads to a doctrinal discrepancy.

The SSPX admits that the pope is the legitimate successor of St. Peter, but as Bishop Fellay has said, “Don’t follow him.” This also creates another doctrinal problem. We are bound to follow the apostles. A bishop is an apostle. But no apostle has the authority to undermined the Apostle Peter. Even Paul did not tell the early Christians not to follow Peter. He made his case before Peter and it was Peter who changed his mind. Had Peter stuck to his guns, can we imagine Paul telling the early Church, “Don’t follow him”? I don’t think so.

This position creates what is called a break with the Primacy of Peter. It’s called a schismatic mentality.

It’s extremely important to understand that a schismatic idea does not make the individual a schismatic, nor does it mean that the organization is in schism. The idea is schismatic. The person may be speaking with his whole heart and mind and have no intention to apostatize. Let us not put labels on the good bishop. He is wrong, but he is NOT a schismatic.

That’s the core differences between the FSSP and SSPX. As far as the mass and other sacraments, they follow the same rituals and customs.

One more thing. The FSSP has faculties to forgive sins. The SSPX does not have faculties to forgive sins. There are situations in which their absolution is invalid and your sins are not forgiven. Nor do they have faculties to bless marriages. The FSSP can bless marriages.

Bishops grant those faculties. The SSPX does not submit to the authority of the local bishops, nor does it ask the Pontiff for faculties. It assumes faculties, by assuming that the Church supplies. But theological arguments and canon law seem to be against them on this point. The Church only supplies in very specific situations, not every Saturday to every penitent.

It’s a complex situation for which we must pray that a quick resolution will be found.
 
JReducation said:
FSSPX and SSPX is the same group. It’s just that most people drop the F.

FSSP was born out of several men who abandoned the SSPX when the Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated and the rest of them were suspended. These men did not want to be in a state of limbo. Not knowing what to do, a handful of them went to Rome to ask for help. They were helped by then Cardinal Ratzinger. Bl. John Paul set them up as the FSSP (Fraternal Society of St. Peter).

The FSSP is a traditionalist society, but it is in full communion with the Holy See. The FSSP is welcome in any diocese around the world. Some of its members work in diocesan ministries while others run parishes for the local bishops. The FSSP also has very good relationships with religious orders around them.

They accept the writings of Vatican II as they are, the CCC, and the Ordinary Form of the Mass. They agree that the Ordinary Form of the Mass is valid and licit. That it is without error.

Like many of us, they recognize that people have inserted nonsense into the OF, but that such nonsense was never in the missal itself. Therefore, it can be taken out and properly disposed of.

The SSPX, on the other hand, finds some documents of Vatican II problematic. It also believes that the Ordinary Form of the mass is valid, but “bad”. Bishop Fellay has gone down on record as saying that he will not make a distinction between licit and illicit. He just wants to say that the new mass is bad. This is a problem. You cannot call bad what the Church uses as are ordinary form of worship of the Triune God. To do so is to say that the Church is using something bad to worship God. This leads to a doctrinal discrepancy.

The SSPX admits that the pope is the legitimate successor of St. Peter, but as Bishop Fellay has said, “Don’t follow him.” This also creates another doctrinal problem. We are bound to follow the apostles. A bishop is an apostle. But no apostle has the authority to undermined the Apostle Peter. Even Paul did not tell the early Christians not to follow Peter. He made his case before Peter and it was Peter who changed his mind. Had Peter stuck to his guns, can we imagine Paul telling the early Church, “Don’t follow him”? I don’t think so.

This position creates what is called a break with the Primacy of Peter. It’s called a schismatic mentality.

It’s extremely important to understand that a schismatic idea does not make the individual a schismatic, nor does it mean that the organization is in schism. The idea is schismatic. The person may be speaking with his whole heart and mind and have no intention to apostatize. Let us not put labels on the good bishop. He is wrong, but he is NOT a schismatic.

That’s the core differences between the FSSP and SSPX. As far as the mass and other sacraments, they follow the same rituals and customs.

One more thing. The FSSP has faculties to forgive sins. The SSPX does not have faculties to forgive sins. There are situations in which their absolution is invalid and your sins are not forgiven. Nor do they have faculties to bless marriages. The FSSP can bless marriages.

Bishops grant those faculties. The SSPX does not submit to the authority of the local bishops, nor does it ask the Pontiff for faculties. It assumes faculties, by assuming that the Church supplies. But theological arguments and canon law seem to be against them on this point. The Church only supplies in very specific situations, not every Saturday to every penitent.

It’s a complex situation for which we must pray that a quick resolution will be found.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying
 
TRH1292 said:
Darn these acronyms!
Click to expand...
We’re the product of “instant oatmeal”. Everything as to be fast. Throwing out a few letters is faster than an entire name.

Look at me. Very few people ever call be by my full name. It’s JR or Jay. Neither is my full name.
 
JReducation said:
FSSPX and SSPX is the same group. It’s just that most people drop the F.

FSSP was born out of several men who abandoned the SSPX when the Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated and the rest of them were suspended. These men did not want to be in a state of limbo. Not knowing what to do, a handful of them went to Rome to ask for help. They were helped by then Cardinal Ratzinger. Bl. John Paul set them up as the FSSP (Fraternal Society of St. Peter).

The FSSP is a traditionalist society, but it is in full communion with the Holy See. The FSSP is welcome in any diocese around the world. Some of its members work in diocesan ministries while others run parishes for the local bishops. The FSSP also has very good relationships with religious orders around them.

They accept the writings of Vatican II as they are, the CCC, and the Ordinary Form of the Mass. They agree that the Ordinary Form of the Mass is valid and licit. That it is without error.

Like many of us, they recognize that people have inserted nonsense into the OF, but that such nonsense was never in the missal itself. Therefore, it can be taken out and properly disposed of.

The SSPX, on the other hand, finds some documents of Vatican II problematic. It also believes that the Ordinary Form of the mass is valid, but “bad”. Bishop Fellay has gone down on record as saying that he will not make a distinction between licit and illicit. He just wants to say that the new mass is bad. This is a problem. You cannot call bad what the Church uses as are ordinary form of worship of the Triune God. To do so is to say that the Church is using something bad to worship God. This leads to a doctrinal discrepancy.

The SSPX admits that the pope is the legitimate successor of St. Peter, but as Bishop Fellay has said, “Don’t follow him.” This also creates another doctrinal problem. We are bound to follow the apostles. A bishop is an apostle. But no apostle has the authority to undermined the Apostle Peter. Even Paul did not tell the early Christians not to follow Peter. He made his case before Peter and it was Peter who changed his mind. Had Peter stuck to his guns, can we imagine Paul telling the early Church, “Don’t follow him”? I don’t think so.

This position creates what is called a break with the Primacy of Peter. It’s called a schismatic mentality.

It’s extremely important to understand that a schismatic idea does not make the individual a schismatic, nor does it mean that the organization is in schism. The idea is schismatic. The person may be speaking with his whole heart and mind and have no intention to apostatize. Let us not put labels on the good bishop. He is wrong, but he is NOT a schismatic.

That’s the core differences between the FSSP and SSPX. As far as the mass and other sacraments, they follow the same rituals and customs.

One more thing. The FSSP has faculties to forgive sins. The SSPX does not have faculties to forgive sins. There are situations in which their absolution is invalid and your sins are not forgiven. Nor do they have faculties to bless marriages. The FSSP can bless marriages.

Bishops grant those faculties. The SSPX does not submit to the authority of the local bishops, nor does it ask the Pontiff for faculties. It assumes faculties, by assuming that the Church supplies. But theological arguments and canon law seem to be against them on this point. The Church only supplies in very specific situations, not every Saturday to every penitent.

It’s a complex situation for which we must pray that a quick resolution will be found.
Click to expand...
What Brother JR said. 👍
 
JReducation said:
FSSP was born out of several men who abandoned the SSPX when the Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated and the rest of them were suspended. These men did not want to be in a state of limbo. Not knowing what to do, a handful of them went to Rome to ask for help. They were helped by then Cardinal Ratzinger. Bl. John Paul set them up as the FSSP (Fraternal Society of St. Peter).
Click to expand...
Ah hah! So this is why SSPX does not like FSSP!
 
JReducation said:
We’re the product of “instant oatmeal”. Everything as to be fast. Throwing out a few letters is faster than an entire name.

Look at me. Very few people ever call be by my full name. It’s JR or Jay. Neither is my full name.
Click to expand...
Well then we will call you Ray from now on. :D:D:D
 
JReducation said:
We’re the product of “instant oatmeal”. Everything as to be fast. Throwing out a few letters is faster than an entire name.

Look at me. Very few people ever call be by my full name. It’s JR or Jay. Neither is my full name.
Click to expand...
May I be so bold as to ask, what is your full name?
 
JReducation said:
FSSPX and SSPX is the same group. It’s just that most people drop the F.

FSSP was born out of several men who abandoned the SSPX when the Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated and the rest of them were suspended. These men did not want to be in a state of limbo. Not knowing what to do, a handful of them went to Rome to ask for help. They were helped by then Cardinal Ratzinger. Bl. John Paul set them up as the FSSP (Fraternal Society of St. Peter).

The FSSP is a traditionalist society, but it is in full communion with the Holy See. The FSSP is welcome in any diocese around the world. Some of its members work in diocesan ministries while others run parishes for the local bishops. The FSSP also has very good relationships with religious orders around them.

They accept the writings of Vatican II as they are, the CCC, and the Ordinary Form of the Mass. They agree that the Ordinary Form of the Mass is valid and licit. That it is without error.

Like many of us, they recognize that people have inserted nonsense into the OF, but that such nonsense was never in the missal itself. Therefore, it can be taken out and properly disposed of.

The SSPX, on the other hand, finds some documents of Vatican II problematic. It also believes that the Ordinary Form of the mass is valid, but “bad”. Bishop Fellay has gone down on record as saying that he will not make a distinction between licit and illicit. He just wants to say that the new mass is bad. This is a problem. You cannot call bad what the Church uses as are ordinary form of worship of the Triune God. To do so is to say that the Church is using something bad to worship God. This leads to a doctrinal discrepancy.

The SSPX admits that the pope is the legitimate successor of St. Peter, but as Bishop Fellay has said, “Don’t follow him.” This also creates another doctrinal problem. We are bound to follow the apostles. A bishop is an apostle. But no apostle has the authority to undermined the Apostle Peter. Even Paul did not tell the early Christians not to follow Peter. He made his case before Peter and it was Peter who changed his mind. Had Peter stuck to his guns, can we imagine Paul telling the early Church, “Don’t follow him”? I don’t think so.

This position creates what is called a break with the Primacy of Peter. It’s called a schismatic mentality.

It’s extremely important to understand that a schismatic idea does not make the individual a schismatic, nor does it mean that the organization is in schism. The idea is schismatic. The person may be speaking with his whole heart and mind and have no intention to apostatize. Let us not put labels on the good bishop. He is wrong, but he is NOT a schismatic.

That’s the core differences between the FSSP and SSPX. As far as the mass and other sacraments, they follow the same rituals and customs.

One more thing. The FSSP has faculties to forgive sins. The SSPX does not have faculties to forgive sins. There are situations in which their absolution is invalid and your sins are not forgiven. Nor do they have faculties to bless marriages. The FSSP can bless marriages.

Bishops grant those faculties. The SSPX does not submit to the authority of the local bishops, nor does it ask the Pontiff for faculties. It assumes faculties, by assuming that the Church supplies. But theological arguments and canon law seem to be against them on this point. The Church only supplies in very specific situations, not every Saturday to every penitent.

It’s a complex situation for which we must pray that a quick resolution will be found.
Click to expand...
Brother JR, am I correct in my understanding that he, Pope Francis, or any Pope for that matter, need only be followed as it impacts the issue of faith and morals, and by that I mean if the Pope issues something dogmatic and that anything else (opinion and things of that kind) are not bindable?
 
sebastian1213 said:
Brother JR, am I correct in my understanding that he, Pope Francis, or any Pope for that matter, need only be followed as it impacts the issue of faith and morals, and by that I mean if the Pope issues something dogmatic and that anything else (opinion and things of that kind) are not bindable?
Click to expand...
No that is not correct.

The Pontiff has rights as the supreme ruler of the universal Church. Whatever he commands must be obeyed. It need not be anything to do with faith or morals. If we look back in history, we saw many kings and others excommunicated not because of faith or morals, but because of unwillingness to obey the pope. In the history of my own religious family, the Franciscans, our second superior general, Brother Elias, was excommunicated for disagreeing with St. Francis. The pope excommunicated him on the grounds that Francis had to be obeyed, because the Church said so. By the way, he later recanted and was returned to the sacraments.

On issues of opinion, things get a little murky, There is a hierarchy. If the pope is giving his opinion on something that is unrelated to our life of faith, it carries less weight than something related to the faith.

Let’s say that the pope opines that a monarchy would be better for society than a democratic republic. His argument may be that it would serve justice better.

Justice is a moral issue. However, whether a monarchy or a democracy serves justice better is speculation. I can’t disagree with him that we need to do something to ensure justice. I can disagree with the idea of a monarchy as a way to do it.

Let’s take another scenario, a real one. The pope opines that we talk too much about abortion, contraception and homosexuality. That’s very close to faith and morals. In fact, he’s saying that we don’t do it right. When you look at the original sentence, what he said was that we can’t speak about these things out of context.

There is very little room for us to dissent here. He’s not make a statement about faith or morals, but he is talking about how we teach morality. He has the right and the authority to tell us how to do it. We have the obligation to pay attention.

If he says, “teach this in context of mercy and redemption”, I had better do that. If he says, don’t talk about this all the time and forget to talk about the poor, war, oppressed Christians, Christian unity, God’s love and mercy, sacrament of confession, clericalism in the Church and other things that he has put on the table, all of us need to take note and tidy up our act.

As you see, there is a kind of ladder, if you will. There are rungs. Some subjects on which the pope speaks are lower or higher on that ladder. The higher they are, the more obliged we are to comply and the less wiggle room there is. When in doubt, ask a good theologian or a good spiritual director, even a good Canon Lawyer can help. Though Canon Lawers are pretty boring people to talk to. 😃
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top