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PaulfromIowa
Guest
Generalities. It is very sad how the number of US women religious has declined so dramatically and will continue to decline, as the median age is in the late 70’s.
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Look at specific groups of Sisters though. Sisters of Life for example:
hvmag.com/Hudson-Valley-Magazine/April-2014/Young-Nuns-Meet-Sufferns-Sisters-of-Life/
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Marie5890
Guest
Agreed.
My sponsor’s daughter is in entering this order, franciscansisterstor.org/ and the foundress is only 45 y/o. Most of the girls are in their 20’s and 30’s and they cant handle the number of young women seeking entrance.
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Marie5890
Guest
(Considering the lack of uproar in the media or on blogs, the report seems to have stirred little or no controversy. An almost “much ado about nothing” reaction. )
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McCall1981
Guest
This is the Apostolic Visitation (done by the Congregation for Religious) of Women Religious in general. I don’t think it was ever expected to stir much controversy, since it is a more routine thing.
The more “controversial” one is the CDF’s investigation of the LCWR, that’s more where the potential for controversy lies.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
The Sisters of Life are a great favorite of mine. One of my teenage granddaughters attended a retreat they conducted. She came from a long way, and they boarded her long enough for her to make connections home. She loves them intensely.
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Marie5890
Guest
AH! Thanks for the clarification.
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Dawnia
Guest
Interesting read. It confirmed what I have seen other places. New religious want to live in community and be recognizable as religious. Those orders that have those things are doing well and those without are dying off.
I was kind of surprised to learn that the number of religious peaked in the 40’s-60’s. Anyone know what it was prior to then?
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McCall1981
Guest
I was confused about it myself until a couple of days ago.AH! Thanks for the clarification.
I think the news coverage is contributing to the confusion because they say very general things like “the Vatican investigation of women religious said…”, so you can’t really tell what they are referring to.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I don’t know. But one has to realize that the biggest single year of “baby boomers” was 1946, so in the 1960s there were a lot more young women than there were before. I think the number of those born in 1946 was just about double the number born in any year prior to that. 1947 and 1948 were big birth years too. I think the numbers remained fairly high, but tapered downward after 1946.
Also, the destructive and oftentimes nutty “spirit of Vatican II” years really didn’t get up to full steam until the late 1960s and early 1970s. So, the big attrition would have brought the numbers right back down fairly quickly, with a slow dwindling ever since.
In about ten years, we’ll see a lot of previously very large and well-established orders just end. Hopefully, by then we’ll see the newer ones grow larger. One of the problems with their growth is lack of resources. Some of the older orders that are dying out have huge resources acquired over the decades and decades. The newer ones all have to start at zero. Resources are needed for facilities and their activities. Lots of them turn down applicants because they just don’t have the resources to take them.
As much as I hate to say it, a lot of the older ones with the big resources are likely to end up as private, rather liberal foundations operated by laypersons.
So, if one wants to encourage vocations to the sisterhood, the best way to do it is to find a particular one of the new ones you like and donate to them. My particular choice for that is the Sisters of Life, but there are other, similar ones.
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christofirst
Guest
It cannot be denied, there was considerable build-up to this report, as though some expected a kind of slap on the wrist for the Sisters, and I did not see that in the report I just read. However this Apostolic Visitation started (and I understand they are routine if infrequent), I see the hand of Pope Francis on it now. There was some reference to Christ and “cosmic” as if to say, don’t go too far with your speculation, and a suggestion that some sort of habit is not a bad thing, but nothing about redirecting or a new emphasis for the Sister’s various ministries, as some pro-life folks were apparently wanting (based on lots of blogs and comments I’ve read). If I were a woman religious (and I’m far from either!), I would not be upset by this report.
It is too bad about the aging of these communities and the challenges they face, but I think we all knew that (for the most part). If the more traditional communities are now having greater success with new vocations, this is a true blessing, and might serve as a wake-up call for all concerned.
It is too bad about the aging of these communities and the challenges they face, but I think we all knew that (for the most part). If the more traditional communities are now having greater success with new vocations, this is a true blessing, and might serve as a wake-up call for all concerned.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
some remarks:
The post-WW2 baby boom actually peaked in 1957 and is considered to cover the years from 1946 to 1964. With the rapid rise in our school-age population came the demand for new schools and for personnel to staff them, both lay and religious. In many suburban dioceses around the country, one will observe that the biggest school and church building boom took place from the late 40’s to the late 60’s which coincides with the rise in men and women seeking religious vocations within the Church. It shouldn’t be surprising that the numbers of religious tailed off post-60’s though the rapidity of the decline has been a concern for many years, nothing new there.
As other posters have mentioned, this isn’t a controversial report. That one may happen later this year when the report on the LCWR is released. Recall both reports were originally commissioned under Benedict XVI, but Francis may take a more conciliatory tone toward the LCWR as he appears to do so here so it’s hard to predict how it will unfold.
Suggestions about increasing the use of habits will be made, that will be a good thing as it helps most sisters to identify more closely with their order’s mission.
I agree that the older orders with too little new blood will fold within the next 10 to 15 years. I know of one in this position; I love them, but I do not see a future for them. At some point, they will have to dissolve in an organized manner, perhaps set up a fund for the retirement care of the remaining elderly sisters before disbursing the rest. By IRS regulations, that disbursement has to be rolled over to another 501(c)3 organization or to a new 501(c)3 organization. Given the assets that some of the older orders have, I would not be surprised to find vultures circling about angling for a piece. This won’t be a universal thing as I’m sure many orders with assets will have also incurred sizable bills for elder care. The Vatican could provide some direction to American bishops and archbishops around this issue, though in many cases they will not be able to compel obedience over this.
The post-WW2 baby boom actually peaked in 1957 and is considered to cover the years from 1946 to 1964. With the rapid rise in our school-age population came the demand for new schools and for personnel to staff them, both lay and religious. In many suburban dioceses around the country, one will observe that the biggest school and church building boom took place from the late 40’s to the late 60’s which coincides with the rise in men and women seeking religious vocations within the Church. It shouldn’t be surprising that the numbers of religious tailed off post-60’s though the rapidity of the decline has been a concern for many years, nothing new there.
As other posters have mentioned, this isn’t a controversial report. That one may happen later this year when the report on the LCWR is released. Recall both reports were originally commissioned under Benedict XVI, but Francis may take a more conciliatory tone toward the LCWR as he appears to do so here so it’s hard to predict how it will unfold.
Suggestions about increasing the use of habits will be made, that will be a good thing as it helps most sisters to identify more closely with their order’s mission.
I agree that the older orders with too little new blood will fold within the next 10 to 15 years. I know of one in this position; I love them, but I do not see a future for them. At some point, they will have to dissolve in an organized manner, perhaps set up a fund for the retirement care of the remaining elderly sisters before disbursing the rest. By IRS regulations, that disbursement has to be rolled over to another 501(c)3 organization or to a new 501(c)3 organization. Given the assets that some of the older orders have, I would not be surprised to find vultures circling about angling for a piece. This won’t be a universal thing as I’m sure many orders with assets will have also incurred sizable bills for elder care. The Vatican could provide some direction to American bishops and archbishops around this issue, though in many cases they will not be able to compel obedience over this.
O
otjm
Guest
The report is very well written. It did not have as its objective the pointing out of the failure of so many of the older groups. However, one or two sentences here and there can convey enough material each for a book, if not a series of books.
For example:
“Vocation and formation personnel interviewed noted that candidates often desire the experience of **living in formative communities **and many wish to be externally recognizable as consecrated women. This is a particular challenge in institutes whose current lifestyle does not emphasize these aspects of religious life.” Bolding is mine.
Living in formative communities: as noted elsewhere in the report, you have sisters living alone or with another sister, often from a different congregation. Too many have scattered to the four winds, leaving few behind living in community, and often that community is a post-retirement group caring for those who can no longer get around, to those who will soon die.
It is not that caring for the elderly is wrong; but it is the elderly caring for the elderly, with those who are still mobile out in other places carrying out whatever work they have.
And if I recall correctly, it was Vatican 2 which specifically stated that the congregations could update their habits, many of which appeared to date back a century or more. Some updated their habits; and others completely eliminated them for all practical purposes.
"This Congregation asks the members of each institute to evaluate their **actual practice **of liturgical and common prayer. " Bolding is mine.
Two words. Totally unneeded if the community had a strong liturgy and prayer life. That one speaks volumes.
“This Dicastery calls upon all religious institutes to carefully review their spiritual practices and ministry to assure that these are in harmony with Catholic teaching about God, creation, the Incarnation and the Redemption.” Bolding again mine.
That sentence could result in a shelf of books, if not several shelves. Talk about politely put… That is flat out devastating, if one understands the background; and one does not have to research in the Wanderer or the Remnant to find more than ample evidence of the problems; it has been carried in both Our Sunday Visitor and in National Catholic Register, both mainstream publications; and I would suspect one could find articles on it in National Catholic Reporter, though one might have to work to get past the fawning aspect of such reports.
This report was not designed to get to the bottom of the problems a goodly number of congregations and a goodly number of leaders have had with the Church. It was an overall review of all of the congregations - good, bad, or indifferent; what it may lack is information from some of the more troublesome ones, who chose not to cooperate - to no one’s surprise.
For example:
“Vocation and formation personnel interviewed noted that candidates often desire the experience of **living in formative communities **and many wish to be externally recognizable as consecrated women. This is a particular challenge in institutes whose current lifestyle does not emphasize these aspects of religious life.” Bolding is mine.
Living in formative communities: as noted elsewhere in the report, you have sisters living alone or with another sister, often from a different congregation. Too many have scattered to the four winds, leaving few behind living in community, and often that community is a post-retirement group caring for those who can no longer get around, to those who will soon die.
It is not that caring for the elderly is wrong; but it is the elderly caring for the elderly, with those who are still mobile out in other places carrying out whatever work they have.
And if I recall correctly, it was Vatican 2 which specifically stated that the congregations could update their habits, many of which appeared to date back a century or more. Some updated their habits; and others completely eliminated them for all practical purposes.
"This Congregation asks the members of each institute to evaluate their **actual practice **of liturgical and common prayer. " Bolding is mine.
Two words. Totally unneeded if the community had a strong liturgy and prayer life. That one speaks volumes.
“This Dicastery calls upon all religious institutes to carefully review their spiritual practices and ministry to assure that these are in harmony with Catholic teaching about God, creation, the Incarnation and the Redemption.” Bolding again mine.
That sentence could result in a shelf of books, if not several shelves. Talk about politely put… That is flat out devastating, if one understands the background; and one does not have to research in the Wanderer or the Remnant to find more than ample evidence of the problems; it has been carried in both Our Sunday Visitor and in National Catholic Register, both mainstream publications; and I would suspect one could find articles on it in National Catholic Reporter, though one might have to work to get past the fawning aspect of such reports.
This report was not designed to get to the bottom of the problems a goodly number of congregations and a goodly number of leaders have had with the Church. It was an overall review of all of the congregations - good, bad, or indifferent; what it may lack is information from some of the more troublesome ones, who chose not to cooperate - to no one’s surprise.
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manualman
Guest
It’s nice to be polite. But one can be polite to a fault if one is so polite, that one’s points are never clearly made.
It’s a 900 pound gorilla situation in religious communities (men AND women) that most communities have withered while a select few flourish and explosively grow!
Does it seem pathetic to anybody else that a report like this doesn’t even seem to address this enormous disparity or attempt to identify and summarize consistent differences between the dying communities and those that are growing?
For sure there were demographic peculiarities that destined a decline in religious numbers. But I’m not remotely convinced that things needed to utterly collapse. That happened because the gospel was abandoned and betrayed in too many places. Anybody wondering what I mean by that can read “Ungodly Rage” by Donna Steichen (which focuses on women’s religious communities, but very similar things were happening in male religious communities and in the diocesan priesthood).
It’s a 900 pound gorilla situation in religious communities (men AND women) that most communities have withered while a select few flourish and explosively grow!
Does it seem pathetic to anybody else that a report like this doesn’t even seem to address this enormous disparity or attempt to identify and summarize consistent differences between the dying communities and those that are growing?
For sure there were demographic peculiarities that destined a decline in religious numbers. But I’m not remotely convinced that things needed to utterly collapse. That happened because the gospel was abandoned and betrayed in too many places. Anybody wondering what I mean by that can read “Ungodly Rage” by Donna Steichen (which focuses on women’s religious communities, but very similar things were happening in male religious communities and in the diocesan priesthood).
K
KSU
Guest
I don’t get it. It seems, for the most part, this necessary info-gathering exercise could have been done in one year by a required-for-all, confidential survey, with a follow up confidential survey (focusing on issues uncovered in the initial survey) and a final report.
Why did it require three or four years of public fanfare–an open invitation for the Church-hating media to distort and conflate with the CDF’s investigation of the notorious LCWR?
The really interesting new aspects are, of course, the bolded words in otjm’s post#14.
Why did it require three or four years of public fanfare–an open invitation for the Church-hating media to distort and conflate with the CDF’s investigation of the notorious LCWR?
The really interesting new aspects are, of course, the bolded words in otjm’s post#14.
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
It could be, of course, that the Vatican figures the whole situation will be cured “by tincture of time” as the doctors say. The difficult part of it is going to be the new orders (and some faithful older ones that do remain) being able to garner the resources to house, feed and train new vocations and to carry out their missions. They really are “starting from scratch”.
As I mentioned above, my teenage granddaughter attended a retreat at the Sisters of Life. The retreatants (is that a word?) were about half white girls from various eastern states and half black girls from the South Bronx. Listening to her stories about it, it was a very, very good thing for all of them. Very moving. As I watch, for instance, marchers in cities calling for cop killing, I reflect on those young black girls growing close to those white girls, and vice versa, which they really did. Perhaps those sisters are wiser than everybody in government all put together.
But I’ll also mention my granddaughter said the bread for their meals was kind of agey. She mentioned that to one of the sisters she knew from before, and the sister explained that they are dependent on donations and a bakery in NYC donates the bread. So that’s why it was kind of old. The sister apologized for it. My granddaughter was touched by that, and told the sister that was just fine and very good of the bakery to provide enough for all of those girls. “It took a lot”, she said, and the sister agreed.
The work of those sisters is protection of unborn life in particular and promoting faith generally. They go out into the South Bronx in full nun regalia, talking to young women; encouraging chastity but helping those who are pregnant. Nearly all of the nuns are nurses or psychologists, and they take pregnant girls or women into the convent if need be, keep them healthy, provide doctors for the birth, find job training and jobs for them.
I asked one of the sisters whether they weren’t afraid to just walk out into a place like the South Bronx. “Well, sometimes” she said. But she added that because of their habits people come up to them all the time and want to talk about their troubles, about somebody needing help, or about religion.
I’m impressed. I hope you are too. www.sistersoflife.com.
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manualman
Guest
Extremely impressed and humbled.
What a shame that they have to scratch and scrounge to house their novices while old established orders squander the riches of generations of sacrifice because there are no young sisters to care for the elderly ones… Such a waste and a shame. Everywhere you go you see former monasteries and convents now moldering away as nearly bankrupt and mostly empty retreat centers for what is, at best, pep rallies for the corporeal works of mercy purged of spiritual content and, at worst, soft core Wicca.
Ah well. God’s never really short on cash. He’ll manage!
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Hope I don’t get sanctioned for this, but I couldn’t help but notice that the “Nuns on the Bus” (all two of them) were riding around supporting Democrat political candidates in a bus that had to cost $200,000 and had a $20,000 “rock star” paint job.Extremely impressed and humbled.
What a shame that they have to scratch and scrounge to house their novices while old established orders squander the riches of generations of sacrifice because there are no young sisters to care for the elderly ones… Such a waste and a shame. Everywhere you go you see former monasteries and convents now moldering away as nearly bankrupt and mostly empty retreat centers for what is, at best, pep rallies for the corporeal works of mercy purged of spiritual content and, at worst, soft core Wicca.
Ah well. God’s never really short on cash. He’ll manage!
Silly me!
I’ll add this. Two of the sisters of life came to visit my family on July 4th (long story). They had an extremely good time. Walked in the creek, getting their long habits wet on the bottom and not minding. They lit fireworks and held sparklers with the little kids. Shot shotguns at targets (pretty good shots). When those things were done, one of them noticed a spark from a sparkler had burned a hole in her veil. “Oh!” she said “This is the only one I have. I guess I’ll just have to tell Mother (superior) the truth, because she can’t miss seeing it.” Then she laughed. “But I can sew this.”
The only one she had.
She is a degree RN, in her late twenties and beautiful. She recounted a story about rescuscitating a man on a plane who had some kind of event in which he passed out. Seeing her when he came to, he told her he was raised Catholic but fell away. He told her he was thinking of coming back, and considered her presence a miracle.
The habit, she says, matters.
D
Dawnia
Guest
It’s hard to get a real understanding of the workings of a group without spending some time with them. See where they live and their routines. With a survey, you may not get an accurate picture of what’s going on. If a group isn’t in line with Church teaching, it’s not a stretch to think they might lie on a survey.
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