Fulton Sheen sainthood effort halted

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Update:

patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2014/09/sheen-update-peoria-issues-additional-clarifications-on-sainthood-cause/

Of critical importance in this is the following:
On June 27, 2014, the Diocese of Peoria received the most recent communication from the Archdiocese of New York. This letter from its lawyer definitively stated that it** would never allow the examination of the body, the securing of relics or the transfer of the body.** Upon receiving this shocking statement and consulting with advisors to the Sheen Cause, Bishop Jenky believed that he had no choice but to stop his efforts and suspend the Cause.
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That letter is indeed shocking because of the bolded section. While there may be legitimate debate about where the body should be and personally speaking I don’t really care. But for the Archdiocese to say that it will never allow the examination of the body or the securing of relics is disgusting to say the least. I consider it a blantant act of disobedience. When the Vatican is investigating the beatification of Bishop Sheen, the attitude of the ADNY should be one of cooperation, not that.
 
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/i...AAAAEY4/VrUrkC9uOjI/s400/Archbishop+Sheen.jpg

Junipero Serra (L), 300 years old this year. Fulton Sheen (R) , evangelizes still, beyond the grave.

Well he’s Blessed Fulton. Rather like Blessed Junipero Serra.

C’mon they’re saints! Are they going to LOSE their Blessedness? no.

It can be confusing. People you’ve never heard of in your life (but who probably ARE saints … besides being named officially so) get “promoted” in what seemed at times to be wholesale lots by ST. JOHN PAUL II – yet Sheen and Serra wait – playing just the front 9 of Heaven’s Country Club; awaiting *full *membership? Lol. Sorry for the imagery.

There MUST be more (North and South) “American” Saints Than the Handful Named Now … Yes?

Is it that they’re Americans (or in Serra’s case DID his saintly things in what is NOW America)?

Through tapes and videos Fulton Sheen continues to teach and convert the world years after his death. No Hall of Fame yet? Who’s judging this? Much lesser people you can bet … even if they are VERY good.

Junipero Serra trudged around primitive California on an ailing foot converting whole tribes of unchurched natives to the faith. And founding a string of missions that became the major cities of California - naming them after Angels, saints and our Blessed Mother by the way - and called his road the “El Camino Real” (The King’s Highway) after Jesus.

Proposed: Canonize These Two During A US Papal Visit (Soon) :yup:

Not ONLY should the first “American Pope” follow JPII in canonizing more role models for us all - but THESE two IMO. Maybe when he visits the US (if that happens).

What unity this might bring us here in the US. Serra a hispanic saint (born in Menorca, part of Spain); Sheen American born and of Irish immigrant heritage (and a saint of “our time” - such as is needed really).

The fight over Sheen’s body seems strange. It SHOULD be a compliment to him - but delays his canonization?? If his body is exumed and found Incorrupt for example – they probably would not put it back in the ground … and it MIGHT in theory then be displayed sometimes in New York, sometimes in Peoria. AND taking hair clippings and fingernail clippings would be relics, yes?

In scripture the closest thing to wrestling over a saints body was when St. Michael contended with Satan for Moses’ body. Apparently a win for St. Michael as Moses showed up at the Transfiguration … but … I don’t like this controversy even were there TWO St. Michaels! :knight1::knight2: :bigyikes::gopray2:

I’d pay to see a thumb wrestling contest between Bishop Jenky and Cardinal Dolan if the “body” issue needed a quick solution. It’d be at LEAST as exciting as the World Series … of*** POKER*** is. 😉
 
saintjohnxxiii said:
Update:

patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2014/09/sheen-update-peoria-issues-additional-clarifications-on-sainthood-cause/

Of critical importance in this is the following:

That letter is indeed shocking because of the bolded section. While there may be legitimate debate about where the body should be and personally speaking I don’t really care. But for the Archdiocese to say that it will never allow the examination of the body or the securing of relics is disgusting to say the least. I consider it a blantant act of disobedience. When the Vatican is investigating the beatification of Bishop Sheen, the attitude of the ADNY should be one of cooperation, not that.
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:confused: Wh …?? Hard to figure out what the NY Archdiocese’s justification could POSSIBLY be. And I’m creative. If they have a GOOD reason - they ought to give it.

This can look terribly suspicious. For instance it can look like they have a BAD reason for doing what they’re doing. Such as, say, they don’t HAVE it anymore. :eek: Or … they (or the family) quietly cremated him years ago < (not a statement of fact - but what speculation might be if they let this imperious looking stance stand).

While the Church is looking for miracles … what if the bodies of Blessed Fulton Sheen and Blessed Junipero Serra e.g. were exhumed and found incorruptable (for instance)? There would be a miracle. Well, not to GOD, but for US. 🙂

If the group promoting Sheen’s canonization can’t investigate his case anymore … can they investigate this lawyer? And WHO specifically hired him (besides the nebulous ADNY cloak)? This doesn’t sound humble, charitable, or in any way I can figure a WWJD moment per the New York Archdiocese.

Canonize Blessed Fulton and this all goes away. BLOCKING examination of his case?
What is the proud Grand Marshall of the newly gay integrated St. Patrick’s Day Parade thinking?

:irish3: *** - Proud and glad to have YOU here!***

:nunchuk: - “THOU shalt not examine for holiness …”

My impression. 🤷
 
saintjohnxxiii said:
Update:

patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2014/09/sheen-update-peoria-issues-additional-clarifications-on-sainthood-cause/

Of critical importance in this is the following:

That letter is indeed shocking because of the bolded section. While there may be legitimate debate about where the body should be and personally speaking I don’t really care. But for the Archdiocese to say that it will never allow the examination of the body or the securing of relics is disgusting to say the least. I consider it a blantant act of disobedience. When the Vatican is investigating the beatification of Bishop Sheen, the attitude of the ADNY should be one of cooperation, not that.
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It makes me wonder if here, in the year of 2014, if we are getting away from the past and custom of examining corpses. Is this a problem with those in power on this issue? Maybe it is a legitimate issue. Also again, what if by some chance, the Venerable Fulton Sheen was found to be “incorrupt”?
 
Path_Finder said:
It makes me wonder if here, in the year of 2014, if we are getting away from the past and custom of examining corpses. Is this a problem with those in power on this issue? Maybe it is a legitimate issue. Also again, what if by some chance, the Venerable Fulton Sheen was found to be “incorrupt”?
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Mmmm Hmmm. :sad_yes: There’d be the needed “miracle”!

And you said it ever so much more succinctly than I did. Motion seconded.

And should he NOT be incorrupt? 🤷 - meh. Most saints aren’t. But worth a look. 👍
 
Dacinom said:
I understand the spiritual value of first class relics, and I understand there is more to this situation than meets the eye. However one thing still confuses me:

Why does a body need to be dug up for a beatification to take place? I have never in my life heard such a thing, I am pleading total ignorance here. I know relics have value, and to examine the remains would be a good thing, I just didn’t know it was 100% necessary. Don’t we have Saints where we don’t have the bodies? Of course we do, lots of them! Does anyone know Catholic Church teaching here I am really confused, thank you. Just thinking even if there is a dispute over his body they can still move forward with his cause for Sainthood.
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Good points. St. Joan of Arc’s body was burnt to ashes which were then thrown in the Seine River! And she was nonetheless canonized. After hundreds of years though. :o
 
Do we need to know why Fulton Sheen’s cause for canonization has been paused?
This is why, he points out, the Church used to have a 50 year waiting period in place – to ensure devotion to a holy man or woman was genuine and to allow enough time for the process to take place.
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Important below:
UPDATE:
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The Archdiocese of New York has released a statement saying that the decision is based on instruction from the Vatican a decade ago not to move Fulton Sheen’s body to Peoria. New York says it has yet to receive any further instructions from the Congregation for the Causes of Saints.
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Perhaps people including myself have been in a rush to judgement while there is a proper explanation per the above.
 
Edit Time ran out on the previous post: Well, I’d think some people would not be satisfied to hear this that they were instructed a decade ago not to remove the body. Some would look at this cynically.
 
Whether bodies should be exhumed and examined is a debate for another day. What is important is that today it is a requirement and if the ADNY gave a darn they would never send a letter saying otherwise and try to block any first class relics that belong to the Church.

The ADNY actions in this issue are very scandalous for me.
 
If Cardinal Dolan’s actions are God’s Will, that I am fully supportive.

Im more interesting in God’s Will and Bishop Sheen’s wishes than anything.
 
His word is as fire is to ice, he shall be made a saint, he already has been in Heaven, he’s waiting for us !
 
(From a wide ranging interview with John Allen)

cruxnow.com/church/2014/09/06/ny-cardinal-predicts-no-change-on-communion-ban-for-divorced-remarried/

Speaking of New York, Bishop Daniel Jenky of Peoria, Illinois, seems to fault the archdiocese for slowing down the beatification of Archbishop Fulton Sheen. Is it true you’ve put on the brakes?

No, that’s not true. I share Bishop Jenky’s expectation and hope to go forward as quickly as possible, and I’m very grateful for all the work Peoria has done. I also share his frustration at the demands of any sainthood cause, because these things are never easy. In New York we know that from other causes we have in the system, such as Pierre Toussaint, Cardinal Terence Cooke, and Dorothy Day.

We’ve had some issues [with Peoria] over what to do with the remains of Archbishop Sheen and what relics we might be able to share, and I’m committed to doing whatever we can that’s consistent with Sheen’s own wishes, the wishes of his family, the instructions we get from the Congregation for the Causes of Saints [in the Vatican] and New York state law. The bottom line is that we want this cause to go forward as quickly as possible, and I thought I had shared that properly with Peoria and with the congregation.

I guess my next step is to write a formal letter to Bishop Jenky and the congregation, saying we’d be honored to take over the cause if that’s what seems best. Sheen was a bishop here and has deep ties to New York and we’re proud of him, so we’d be happy to do it, but we also want to respect Peoria.
 
Marie5890 said:
(From a wide ranging interview with John Allen)

cruxnow.com/church/2014/09/06/ny-cardinal-predicts-no-change-on-communion-ban-for-divorced-remarried/

Speaking of New York, Bishop Daniel Jenky of Peoria, Illinois, seems to fault the archdiocese for slowing down the beatification of Archbishop Fulton Sheen. Is it true you’ve put on the brakes?

No, that’s not true. I share Bishop Jenky’s expectation and hope to go forward as quickly as possible, and I’m very grateful for all the work Peoria has done. I also share his frustration at the demands of any sainthood cause, because these things are never easy. In New York we know that from other causes we have in the system, such as Pierre Toussaint, Cardinal Terence Cooke, and Dorothy Day.

We’ve had some issues [with Peoria] over what to do with the remains of Archbishop Sheen and what relics we might be able to share, and I’m committed to doing whatever we can that’s consistent with Sheen’s own wishes, the wishes of his family, the instructions we get from the Congregation for the Causes of Saints [in the Vatican] and New York state law. The bottom line is that we want this cause to go forward as quickly as possible, and I thought I had shared that properly with Peoria and with the congregation.

I guess my next step is to write a formal letter to Bishop Jenky and the congregation, saying we’d be honored to take over the cause if that’s what seems best. Sheen was a bishop here and has deep ties to New York and we’re proud of him, so we’d be happy to do it, but we also want to respect Peoria.
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From what I understand, the “Crux Online” is the new Boston Globe Catholic Website and actually is fairly good, it does not appear opinionated from a precursory scanning of its content.

Related to Venerable Fulton Sheen is this article on relics:
But on another level, we are seeing something new. The debate over Bishop Sheen’s body — where it should entombed and what to do with it — tells us something about how traditional Catholic attitudes toward saintly bodies can challenge our conventional sensibilities.
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This may in fact be a major part of this story.
 
I hate to bring this into the equation, but, something nobody is mentioning is a shrine, and the tourism influx.

Whichever location that assists in the completion of the cause, and has the remains of a Saint would surely build a shrine in his honor. Hence, toursim, and all of the good and bad that goes with it.
 
twopekinguys said:
I hate to bring this into the equation, but, something nobody is mentioning is a shrine, and the tourism influx.

Whichever location that assists in the completion of the cause, and has the remains of a Saint would surely build a shrine in his honor. Hence, toursim, and all of the good and bad that goes with it.
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True.

But to be fair, I dont think NYC is in desperate need for tourism 😉
 
Marie5890 said:
True.

But to be fair, I dont think NYC is in desperate need for tourism 😉
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And Venerable Fulton Sheen was the Bishop of Rochester NY for 3 years, Oct. '66-Oct. '69. I’m not sure if he had any other connection to that city but actually, there are seemingly about 3 places that could stake a claim to his legacy I understand.
 
Path_Finder said:
And Venerable Fulton Sheen was the Bishop of Rochester NY for 3 years, Oct. '66-Oct. '69. I’m not sure if he had any other connection to that city but actually, there are seemingly about 3 places that could stake a claim to his legacy I understand.
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He disliked his time in Rochester a great deal, and they did not like him much either.

I recommend his autobiography “Treasure in Clay” for anyone interested in getting to know him better thru the telling of his own life. Well worth the read.
 
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