Fumed!!!!!

[SpiritMeadow]

When people are experiencing record cold temperatures, global warming (man made or otherwise) is a tough sell.

As for Republicans ‘grudgingly admitting it now’, global warming is a question of science, not politics.
And the science, at present, says otherwise.

I would agree, that people who pay so little attention to an issue that they would assume that a cold winter negates the concept of global warming, probably can’t be reached. We aren’t talking about those kind of folks however. We are talking about people who have actually cared enough to actually study the issue.

The “it’s cold therefore there is no global warming” is not an argument, it’s a juvenile response made by people who are too lazy to read. I’m sure no one here is like that. People here seem to be very willing to check out things with actual facts, not grade school “logic.”

 

[vz71]

Well the fact that we are having bitterly cold winters is also a sign of global warming. The ozone is depleating causing all weather to magnify. Haven’t you seen The Day After Tomorrow!? J/K.

Deleted a chunk as I had no idea what J/K was either.

 

[vz71]

This past spring my proffesors home state of Georgia experienced crippling droughts.

This was part of a larger cycle.
Years (decades?) ago when the droughts came, the attempted to build into the infrastructure extra capacity for the next drought.

But of course, once the drought ended interest in the extra capacity ended. And they were caught off guard again.



Your ‘proffesor’ is misleading you.

 

[vz71]

And by the way, global warming doesn’t* just *imply increases in heat. It also means dramatic changes in the cycles of seasons and increases in precipitation and such. Weather fronts and such are being messed up in such a way that states are experiencing dead of winter weather during what should be late fall weather.

No.
Global warming means global warming.
What you are describing is climate change.

I can see why some would want to use global warming in place of the proper terminology. It sounds much more threatening.

 

[vz71]

I know it’s not a nice thing to think about, the very face of the natural world as we know it being altered because of human negligence.

This is a common charge. But there is no concrete evidence to support this.

 

[vz71]

I would agree, that people who pay so little attention to an issue that they would assume that a cold winter negates the concept of global warming, probably can’t be reached. We aren’t talking about those kind of folks however. We are talking about people who have actually cared enough to actually study the issue.

It has been my experience that those that study the issue often come away disbelieving global warming.

The most damning thing many study is the records that have been kept…or rather the lack thereof.
With less then a century of accurate data, how can we possibly believe we can understand the long term cycles of the climate?
Particularly when people start noticing how often the 10 day weather forecast is wrong.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

It has been my experience that those that study the issue often come away disbelieving global warming.

The most damning thing many study is the records that have been kept…or rather the lack thereof.
With less then a century of accurate data, how can we possibly believe we can understand the long term cycles of the climate?
Particularly when people start noticing how often the 10 day weather forecast is wrong.

I am deeply sorry. I thought you were telling me that when people will believe that cold winters means that there is no such thing as Global warming, there is no hope of convincing them. Apparently you agree with them. I am constrained to understand why people are taking this position. Do you think that those who claim that climate change is occuring are doing so for some personal gain? I have found that fundamentalists also take this position, but they do so, so they tell me, because they assume the end times are upon us and they don’t think they are to interfer with God’s plans. Same with allowing Israel to do as it wishes in the Middle East.

I apologize for assuming you were on the climate change side of things. I have researched the issue quite thoroughly and find the evidence compelling as do most of the leading scientists. Of course, like those who pursue the no evolution, there are plenty of crackpots out there twisting the evidence to prove otherwise. They are not however very forthcoming on explaining why they want to take this position, against the great weight of the evidence.

I have no desire to debate the issue. It is beyond debate. Scientists now claim that we will have to try fairly risky solutions, since we have waited so long to address this problem. We no longer have the luxury of small incremental solutions. It is deeply troubling that so many people are refusing to budge and leaving hteir children a world that will be increasingly hostile to live in.

In fact, this argument among the ultra right that there is no such thing as global warming, happy news to the business world that caters to their votes, is much the same as the issue of population. Everyone agrees that we must slow population, and we have known this for years, yet the fundamentalists argue that it is a lie, because “God said, go forth and multiply” and they take that so literally that they refuse to accept the facts. Pretending that things aren’t true, seldom solves a problem but for the short term.

 

[vz71]

Do you think that those who claim that climate change is occuring are doing so for some personal gain?

Not all, but there are a notable few that are.

I have found that fundamentalists also take this position, but they do so, so they tell me, because they assume the end times are upon us and they don’t think they are to interfer with God’s plans. Same with allowing Israel to do as it wishes in the Middle East.

Not certain I would agree with that opinion.
It is always a mistake to assume you understand fully God’s plans. As for Israel, that should be on another thread. It is another one of those incendiary topics that can quickly hijack a thread. I believe Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself.

I apologize for assuming you were on the climate change side of things.

No apology necessary. I deliberately left it obscure.
I find it better for the goodwill of the debate if one side or the other (preferably both) have a healthy bit of detachment from the issue.
Arguments of passion never end well.
Arguments of evidence however…

I have researched the issue quite thoroughly and find the evidence compelling as do most of the leading scientists. Of course, like those who pursue the no evolution, there are plenty of crackpots out there twisting the evidence to prove otherwise. They are not however very forthcoming on explaining why they want to take this position, against the great weight of the evidence.

I am ready willing and able to explain why I have taken the position I have. ‘Crackpots’ aside, there is a great deal of compelling evidence to disbelieve the entire theory.

I have no desire to debate the issue. It is beyond debate.

And that is one of the reasons I sit where I do.
Any time a side stands alone declaring their position to be uncontestable, there is something wrong.

Scientists now claim that we will have to try fairly risky solutions, since we have waited so long to address this problem. We no longer have the luxury of small incremental solutions. It is deeply troubling that so many people are refusing to budge and leaving hteir children a world that will be increasingly hostile to live in.

The few that advocate these risky solutions do not know the eventual outcomes of the actions they propose.
What if they discover this ‘global warming’ is just a natural cycle and our own efforts to prevent it throw the entirety of the cycle out of balance?
But then, what makes these scientists believe we can control the weather?

In fact, this argument among the ultra right that there is no such thing as global warming, happy news to the business world that caters to their votes, is much the same as the issue of population.

Issue with population?
Again a topic best suited to its own thread. Incendiary again.
Thread hijack…etc. gone through that before.

Everyone agrees that we must slow population, and we have known this for years, yet the fundamentalists argue that it is a lie, because “God said, go forth and multiply” and they take that so literally that they refuse to accept the facts. Pretending that things aren’t true, seldom solves a problem but for the short term.

‘Everyone???’
Obviously not. But since you brought it up, I see no need in reducing the population. The real problem is the distribution of resources, not the population.

So moving back to this ‘undebateble’ theory called ‘global warming.’
How is it that a theory that is so solid has so many holes in it?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I don’t think the issue is just climate change. It is whether it is a natural cycle or whether it is man made. That’s the question. We could do all we want as a nation. But with countries like China, India and others just now coming into an expansive growth period, what we would do as a nation is like swatting at a hurricane. If it is cyclical and controlled by the sun, there is nothing we can do. I for one am not so sure it is man made.

 

[vz71]

I don’t think the issue is just climate change. It is whether it is a natural cycle or whether it is man made. That’s the question.

Or for that matter if there really is a trend toward the climate changing at all.

What I would posit is that we simply do not have enough data gathered to know with any certainty. 100 years worth of data would be great in a system that has only been around a few centuries.
But this planet is much older then that. A century of data is not enough to predict anything. And I believe we actually have less then that.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

It is a valid theory/It taint’ a valid theory… is it is, is it aint’ ZZZZZZ:yawn:
The world’s indiscriminate use of resources is the bigger problem due to the sin factor. It is in relation to the individual’s indiscriminate use of their own resources, money, food, etc, only bigger.

This is what the media in general and the History Channel in particular cannot fathom due to the fact they don’t know Him, He who is not of the world but is in the world, but not known by the world.

We should know better and some do. We who identify the world’s problem and apply the fix to our own lives thus witness to others. I don’t think we will be judged that the Cuyahoga river was so polluted it caught FIRE in 1969, but that our soul was on fire with sin in 2009.