Fundamentalism and Atheism

[teadough]

Many Atheists seem to obsess about religion. Its almost like they have a pathological desire to say God cannot exist. I myself wonder why they got so obsessive about it. It really confuses me as to why they even care.

I know. Many strong atheist have book shelves full of authors who stake claims against any form of God. I too find it odd that one would spend so much time on subjects that ‘isn’t really there’.

It would be like me going out of my way to disprove the existence of The Tooth fairy. I could write books about it, start a Group, and make clever bumper stickers. How many people do you know with a catalogue of books trying to refute that there is NO Tooth Fairy? I don’t know any, but I do know many people who spend a lot of time trying to sort out that there is no God? I don’t get it? If an atheist lacks the belief in a God, then why bother?

 

[graceandglory]

Many Atheists seem to obsess about religion. Its almost like they have a pathological desire to say God cannot exist. I myself wonder why they got so obsessive about it. It really confuses me as to why they even care.

I would say a fundamentalist desire to say God cannot exist.
It’s way easier to be an agnostic.

 

[ralphinal]

Perhaps it’s a reflection of my living in a society with quite a few atheists (and an enormous number of ‘really don’t give a damn’) where talking about religion at all is regarded as something of a ‘faux pas’?

Correct me if I am wrong, but European atheism tends to be much less militant than American atheism.

 

[Mrs_Mac]

Do you believe the Catholic Church is 100% correct? If so, then why are you any different?

PS- playing devils advocate here

Big difference. As a Catholic, I believe that my Church is 100% correct. However, as a Catholic I respect what is good and true in other religions. I also believe that even some atheists, to the extent they live good and moral lives, may play some role in God’s plan for salvation.

Thank you for playing devil’s advocate and making me think about this.

 

[mjs1987]

Having spent time in Europe, there is a big difference between American atheism and European atheism. I would attribute this to the history of religious awakenings that have happened in America and started in England. This is why some of the prominent militant atheists like Dawkins and Hitchens come from England. The history of religious awakenings in the United States has created a society where everyone takes whatever religious stance seriously and tries to spread it in a Puritan-like manner. This is why people are so preachy and pushy of their beliefs in this country. If you study the history of religious awakenings in this country and the fact they did not happen on the European continent outside of Britain. The British awakenings ended in the 20th century and the influence of them not as great as they once were however there still are American awakenings to this day. The attitudes the OP talks about are very consistent with the American religious attitudes in periods of awakenings and with the Puritan religious character.

 

[4Squarebaby]

I know. Many strong atheist have book shelves full of authors who stake claims against any form of God. I too find it odd that one would spend so much time on subjects that ‘isn’t really there’.

It would be like me going out of my way to disprove the existence of The Tooth fairy. I could write books about it, start a Group, and make clever bumper stickers. How many people do you know with a catalogue of books trying to refute that there is NO Tooth Fairy? I don’t know any, but I do know many people who spend a lot of time trying to sort out that there is no God? I don’t get it? If an atheist lacks the belief in a God, then why bother?

Why bother? Perhaps today it is political. “The End of History” turned out not to be the end when a global war fought mainly because of religion broke out. It is only the religious holding the line against same sex marriage and abortion on demand.

 

[jericho777]

As a christian I only hold God and the bible infallible and inerrant. My church and I are both fallible we are human. To think any thing else would be extremely arrogant and short sighted. If a church was infallible how could they ever make a mistake, modify or change its doctrine. In fact there would be no need to.

If you had the power to be infallible why would not invoke it and use it all the time in all your statements and actions, God does.

 

[CWBetts]

As a christian I only hold God and the bible infallible and inerrant. My church and I are both fallible we are human. To think any thing else would be extremely arrogant and short sighted. If a church was infallible how could they ever make a mistake, modify or change its doctrine. In fact there would be no need to.

If you had the power to be infallible why would not invoke it and use it all the time in all your statements and actions, God does.

Your statement is self-contradictory. You cannot have an infallible canon of Scripture without an infallible Church. Think about where the Bible came from: a series of Church councils in the late 4th century. The Bible promises an infallible Church.

 

[Kaninchen]

Correct me if I am wrong, but European atheism tends to be much less militant than American atheism.

I think that’s true - of course believers and atheists are both operating in a sea of people who really just don’t care. Perhaps the caring one way or another seems preferable.

 

[jericho777]

Your statement is self-contradictory. You cannot have an infallible canon of Scripture without an infallible Church. Think about where the Bible came from: a series of Church councils in the late 4th century. The Bible promises an infallible Church.

Men under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit wrote scripture. “2 Tim 3: 16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice,” Scripture is God breathed not man breathed. The authorship makes it infallible not mans proclamation.

Scripture was scripture long before any council said it was so. In what chapter and verse does scripture the church is infallible.

 

[Dokimas]

It has occurred to me that Fundamentalist Protestants and Atheists seem to be opposite sides of the same coin. This is exhibited by the sharing of two qualities:

1. When interpreting Scriptures, both factions insist on a literalist translation, ignoring genre, original audience, and idiom.
2. Both insist that their own view is 100% correct Don’t you think the CC and people like you feel the same way about your understandings?, and all else are absolute fools, decreeing themselves to be the final arbiters of truth.

Really, the biggest difference between the two is that Atheists will not believe the Bible under any circumstances, and Fundamentalists will not discard their misguided faith under any circumstances **Any circumstance would cause you to stop being a cahtolic or to stop believing any of your dearly help beliefs (perpetual virginity of Mary; transubstanciation, etc)?. **Any thoughts?

 

[Dokimas]

The major difference is that I do not take it upon myself to decree that I myself am right.

You take it upon yourself to remain a catholic, don’t you. You’re not forced to remain a catholic are you? You choose to believe the teachings of the CC, don’t you?​

If you consent to the teachings of a church and embrace them, it’s your belief.

 

[CWBetts]

You take it upon yourself to remain a catholic, don’t you. You’re not forced to remain a catholic are you? You choose to believe the teachings of the CC, don’t you?​

If you consent to the teachings of a church and embrace them, it’s your belief.

Mr Dokimas, let me put it this way: Fundamentalists and Atheists pretend all evidence to the contrary simply does not exist. My journey to the True Church from the Fundamentalist heresies involved confronting said evidence.

 

[Dokimas]

Mr Dokimas, let me put it this way: Fundamentalists and Atheists pretend all evidence to the contrary simply does not exist. My journey to the True Church from the Fundamentalist heresies involved confronting said evidence.

I’m sure you’ve convinced yourself that anything brought to you that is contrary to your beliefs have been dealt with with evidence.

 

[CWBetts]

Men under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit wrote scripture. “2 Tim 3: 16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice,” Scripture is God breathed not man breathed. The authorship makes it infallible not mans proclamation.

Scripture was scripture long before any council said it was so. In what chapter and verse does scripture the church is infallible.

Who decided what was inspired and what was not? The Church.

As for the infallibility of the Church (that is, the Church founded by Jesus Christ, and not the man made assemblies of Fundamentalism), we need look no further than John 16:13:
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Pretty clear. Jesus is going to send the Spirit of Truth to His Church (that would be the Catholic Church).

 

[CWBetts]

I’m sure you’ve convinced yourself that anything brought to you that is contrary to your beliefs have been dealt with with evidence.

I actually paid attention to the Scriptures and the 2000 year history of Christianity. To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant. (Don’t blame me for that one! That is St. John Newman)

 

[jericho777]

Who decided what was inspired and what was not? The Church.

As for the infallibility of the Church (that is, the Church founded by Jesus Christ, and not the man made assemblies of Fundamentalism), we need look no further than John 16:13:
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Pretty clear. Jesus is going to send the Spirit of Truth to His Church (that would be the Catholic Church).

Like I said scripture was considered scripture long before any council said it was so. In what chapter and verse does scripture the church is infallible. Acts 17:11

John 16:3 says the Holy Spirit will teach all believers. This verse says nothing about a Church.

 

[CWBetts]

Like I said scripture was considered scripture long before any council said it was so. In what chapter and verse does scripture the church is infallible. Acts 17:11

John 16:3 says the Holy Spirit will teach all believers. This verse says nothing about a Church.

In context. Take it in context. I don’t just mean the immediate context, but as part of the Canon of Scriptures. It was the CHURCH that named the Scriptures as scriptures. You have to have an infallible authority. Otherwise fallible men put together a fallible list of infallible books. It makes no sense. I gave you John 16:13. There is also Matthew 16:18-19 and 1 Timothy 3:15-16. In John 16 who was he addressing? Large crowds? No. He was talking privately with the Apostles, the first Bishops. The Holy Spirit would guide the Church leadership to all truth. There is no other way around it.

 

[jericho777]

In context. Take it in context. I don’t just mean the immediate context, but as part of the Canon of Scriptures. It was the CHURCH that named the Scriptures as scriptures. You have to have an infallible authority. Otherwise fallible men put together a fallible list of infallible books. It makes no sense. I gave you John 16:13. There is also Matthew 16:18-19 and 1 Timothy 3:15-16. In John 16 who was he addressing? Large crowds? No. He was talking privately with the Apostles, the first Bishops. The Holy Spirit would guide the Church leadership to all truth. There is no other way around it.

Scripture called itself scripture long before it was canonized by the Church. It’s nice to know you agree with the Holy Spirit that it is scripture.

The Jews recognized the OT long before there was Church and they did not claim infalibility while doing it. The Holy Spirit inspired fallible men to write infallible scripture.

The Holy Spirit is sent to individual believers to teach them not an organization.

 

[Yerusalyim]

the point I was making is that Catholics think they’re right in what they/we believe. At one time I really used to think about those same ideas that the OP posted. Especially since I came from a non-catholic background.

If you don’t believe the Church you’re in is the right church…you’re wasting everyone’s time.