Fundamentalism and Atheism

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  1. Both insist that their own view is 100% correct, and all else are absolute fools, decreeing themselves to be the final arbiters of truth.
And the Catholic Church doesn’t insist it’s 100% correct? Unless you’re in full communion with the RCC, that is accepting the full teaching of the RCC regardless, you’re not suppose to receive communion. I can go to the catechism if I must. Just send me a private message.

The literal interpretation of the Bible may be literal or figurative, such as the parables, depending on the context.
 
-Except for the pseudo-science of evolution, most if not all of modern day areas of science were started by believers in the Creator of the Universe.
In science, it doesn’t matter what people believe – it matters what the evidence indicates.
Not to believe in the Creator takes far more faith than I can muster up.
By definition, not believing in something requires no faith.
When God was kicked out of schools it was done so by those that espouse the religion of atheism. Make no mistake, you are a religious person.
You have a weird definition of religion.

CWBetts:
[prayer] should not be banned either.
Of course it should. Public school is a government-run, public institution funded by the tax dollars of people of all religions and no religions. There should be no official, mandatory prayers because we have a secular government that is not in the business of supporting religions. If students want to privately pray in their head, they can do it all the live-long day for all that I care, but mandatory prayer cannot be allowed.
 
In science, it doesn’t matter what people believe – it matters what the evidence indicates. Evidence gets interpreted and sometimes it gets lied about, like the global warming silliness.

By definition, not believing in something requires no faith. You really shouldn’t fool yourself; you are a person of faith. Just because you don’t believe in God, you still have faith.

You have a weird definition of religion. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Ever read the Humanist Manifesto 1?
 
And the Catholic Church doesn’t insist it’s 100% correct? Unless you’re in full communion with the RCC, that is accepting the full teaching of the RCC regardless, you’re not suppose to receive communion. I can go to the catechism if I must. Just send me a private message.

The literal interpretation of the Bible may be literal or figurative, such as the parables, depending on the context.
But I do not declare myself to be the final arbiter of truth, as the Fundamentalists do. If your interpretation does not fit with your pastor, then what? You leave until you find someone who matches, rather than form your conscience to the Truth, passed down from the Apostles through the Holy Catholic Church.
 
. There should be no official, mandatory prayers because we have a secular government that is not in the business of supporting religions. If students want to privately pray in their head, they can do it all the live-long day for all that I care, but mandatory prayer cannot be allowed.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and agree with the atheist here. I know who is teaching in public schools. I send my kids to those public schools. I do not, repeat, DO NOT want them LEADING PRAYER for my children! You can bet your bonnet that the “prayer” chosen in most public schools will not be Christian prayer.

My 7 yr old warned me last year that the Native Americans would be coming to her school to pray and burn incense to the totem pole. I asked that she not be present at the native American prayer ceremony. Of the whole school, in a pretty conservative town, she was the only one who sat in the office during the ceremony. And she was OK with that. 👍
 
Hi Jericho!

Can you please explain how the Holy Spirit wrote it?

Do you deny that the Scriptures were written by men?
Hey grace The Holy Spirit inspired fallible men to write infallible scripture. 2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Men wrote what the Holy Spirit inspired them to write. Nothing more or nothing less.
 
Hey grace The Holy Spirit inspired fallible men to write infallible scripture. 2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Men wrote what the Holy Spirit inspired them to write. Nothing more or nothing less.
Who told you which books were inspired?
 
In science, it doesn’t matter what people believe – it matters what the evidence indicates.

By definition, not believing in something requires no faith.

You have a weird definition of religion.

CWBetts: Of course it should. Public school is a government-run, public institution funded by the tax dollars of people of all religions and no religions. There should be no official, mandatory prayers because we have a secular government that is not in the business of supporting religions. If students want to privately pray in their head, they can do it all the live-long day for all that I care, but mandatory prayer cannot be allowed.
If I want to pray ANYWHERE just try and stop me! No student should be prevented from praying if he or she wishes. I see what you really want: a tyranny without religion, in order to remove value from any person. A person will only has value as long as the state deems it so.
 
Hey grace The Holy Spirit inspired fallible men to write infallible scripture. 2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Men wrote what the Holy Spirit inspired them to write. Nothing more or nothing less.
What about the law of causality? The effect (infallible Word of God) cannot be greater than the cause (fallible men inspired by the HS to write Scripture)…
 
I think you should read more into public school policies because some of the issues you’re brining up are really outdated for the most part.
They are outdated because of the efforts of secularists and people who respect the constitution. Even still, there are plenty of people who would like to change some of these things if they had the power. For example, take the relatively recent battles over “intelligent design” and science textbooks in some districts (Texas, in particular).

If these people want to present their beliefs in a public place, they are opening themselves up to having their beliefs scrutinized, and I won’t lose any sleep over pointing out flaws in these beliefs.

CWBetts:
If I want to pray ANYWHERE just try and stop me! No student should be prevented from praying if he or she wishes. I see what you really want: a tyranny without religion, in order to remove value from any person.
Huh? What the heck? Did you miss where I said that I don’t care if a student prays all day long in his or her head?

We’re talking about teachers leading official, organized prayer in their classes – which clearly should not be allowed. You wouldn’t want a Hindu teacher leading your child’s class in Hindu prayers, and you wouldn’t want a Muslim teacher leading your child’s class in a Muslim prayer. The vast majority of atheists (and other non-Christians) don’t want Christian teachers leading classes in Christian prayers. It isn’t a hard concept to grasp.

The only way to make sure that government stays out of religion (and vice versa) is for government to stay out of religion entirely. Far from “tyranny,” this is the only way to ensure freedom for everyone.

graceandglory:
I’m gonna go out on a limb and agree with the atheist here.
Good. If you agree with me all the time, you’re going to be right much more often than not.
 
I’m gonna go out on a limb and agree with the atheist here. I know who is teaching in public schools. I send my kids to those public schools. I do not, repeat, DO NOT want them LEADING PRAYER for my children! You can bet your bonnet that the “prayer” chosen in most public schools will not be Christian prayer.
For the record I agree with this.

My big issue would be that I want the public schools to be perfectly free with student initiated prayer. If students want to come together for the purpose of prayer at a public school they should be able to do so. I do think they have this right today.

And as George Will said ‘as long as there are math tests there will be prayer in school’.
 
They are outdated because of the efforts of secularists and people who respect the constitution. Even still, there are plenty of people who would like to change some of these things if they had the power. For example, take the relatively recent battles over “intelligent design” and science textbooks in some districts (Texas, in particular).

If these people want to present their beliefs in a public place, they are opening themselves up to having their beliefs scrutinized, and I won’t lose any sleep over pointing out flaws in these beliefs.

CWBetts: Huh? What the heck? Did you miss where I said that I don’t care if a student prays all day long in his or her head?

We’re talking about teachers leading official, organized prayer in their classes – which clearly should not be allowed. You wouldn’t want a Hindu teacher leading your child’s class in Hindu prayers, and you wouldn’t want a Muslim teacher leading your child’s class in a Muslim prayer. The vast majority of atheists (and other non-Christians) don’t want Christian teachers leading classes in Christian prayers. It isn’t a hard concept to grasp.

The only way to make sure that government stays out of religion (and vice versa) is for government to stay out of religion entirely. Far from “tyranny,” this is the only way to ensure freedom for everyone.

graceandglory: Good. If you agree with me all the time, you’re going to be right much more often than not.
A student should be able to pray OUT LOUD, mahe a Sign of the Cross or whatever. Or do you also wish to strip Christians of freedom of speech as well as the free exercise clause,
 
But I do not declare myself to be the final arbiter of truth, as the Fundamentalists do. If your interpretation does not fit with your pastor, then what? .
Fundamentalists do not declare themselves to be the “final arbiter of truth.” No, that would be the Bible. Unfortunately differences have led to fractures within the churches. We’d all hope that the differences could be settled biblically.
You leave until you find someone who matches, rather than form your conscience to the Truth, passed down from the Apostles through the Holy Catholic Church.
This last point has been argued to many times.

In the end God to judge us.
 
Hey grace The Holy Spirit inspired fallible men to write infallible scripture. 2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Men wrote what the Holy Spirit inspired them to write. Nothing more or nothing less.
When Paul wrote to Timothy, the New Testament books hadn’t been compiled. Do you think Paul knew that the letter he was writing would become a part of the Christian Scriptures? Or was Paul telling Timothy not to throw out the Jewish Scriptures, that they were still God-breathed, useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness?

What do you say Jericho?
 
When Paul wrote to Timothy, the New Testament books hadn’t been compiled. Do you think Paul knew that the letter he was writing would become a part of the Christian Scriptures? Or was Paul telling Timothy not to throw out the Jewish Scriptures, that they were still God-breathed, useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness?

What do you say Jericho?
I thought the bible was the word of God and not the personal property of any one else. I don’t know what Paul knew but he knew God had made him an apostle and servent. His work or word could not contradict the already revealed word of God.
 
I thought the bible was the word of God and not the personal property of any one else. I don’t know what Paul knew but he knew God had made him an apostle and servent. His work or word could not contradict the already revealed word of God.
So was Paul still writing Scripture when he told Timothy that the Church was the pillar and bulwark of truth? Did Jesus really mean it when he gave to the Apostles the ability to absolve sin? Was Jesus just kidding around when he changed Simon’s name to Peter, and gave him PERSONALLY the power to bind and loose? Here we are seeing a problem with Fundametalism. They only accept the Scriptures they LIKE, and convenioently ignore the rest.
 
A student should be able to pray OUT LOUD, mahe a Sign of the Cross or whatever. Or do you also wish to strip Christians of freedom of speech as well as the free exercise clause,
THANK YOU!!! :clapping:

Don’t fool yourselves (Christians and other believers). That’s EXACTLY what the atheists want! I’m predicting a time when churches will be mandated to be nondescript, warehouse type buildings, with no external crosses or anything that leads one to believe the Worship of God might be taking place inside, lest some atheist drive by and become “offended” :mad: In fact, come to think of it, there may come a day when no churches will be allowed to be built, because that will require getting permits and paying fees and such, and that would be “government involvement” in religion :rolleyes:

In Christ,

Ellen
 
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