Fundamentalism and the Search for God

[TonyBS]

World peace is an earthly notion and carnal. We’re not running for office nor a beauty pageant. Dignity for every human being first. That means tolerating diversity but not at the expense of things of Heaven where Christ is sitting at God’s right hand.

MJ

Is this prayer not worth the paper it is written on?

Matt:7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11Give us this day our daily bread.

12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I will continue to ask for Gods Kingdom on Earth as it is Heaven, if it is carnal then let it be so.

God bless you Martin Regards Tony.

 

[TonyBS]

Love love love all you need is love? Love is all you need?

Imagine there’s no Heaven no religion too.

No thanks.

MJ

Love and unity without religion would be better than war and disunity with religion.

God bless and regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

Love and unity without religion would be better than war and disunity with religion.

God bless and regards Tony

It’s only irony that we say God bless if unity is more important. Unity in expense of God and things of Heaven ? No.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Is this prayer not worth the paper it is written on?

Matt:7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11Give us this day our daily bread.

12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I will continue to ask for Gods Kingdom on Earth as it is Heaven, if it is carnal then let it be so.

God bless you Martin Regards Tony.

It is things of Heaven first. Our Father who art in Heaven. Thy Kingdom come thy Will be done…then earth…AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.

Odd you started with "vain repetitions ". Where are you going with that?

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

It’s only irony that we say God bless if unity is more important. Unity in expense of God and things of Heaven ? No.

MJ

I fail to understand how one Gives up God Love and Unity to accept all men as Brothers and to do unto them as you would have them do unto you.

One just has to use ones belief in Love and Unity and not as a fundamental requirement.

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

If you look closely at Isaiah and Revelation it’s all about ending war, world peace and a new life both spiritual and material for the peoples of the world.

Let’s start then with Isaiah.

Listen, you heavens; earth, attend, for Yahweh is speaking, 'I have reared children and brought them up, but they have rebelled against me.

This is God telling this right? So God first. What then are you looking for?

Fundamentalism concentrates on the opposite, causing division and hatred in the name of religion. True religion unites and is not buried in theology but is more concerned about the revival and betterment of humanity. If religion fails to unite and bring peace to the earth it is of no use to the world.

Fundamentalism focuses on the exaltation and supremacy of one faith over another and only causes hatred, wars, prejudice and disunity.

Fundamentalism is internal looking, seeking to establish its own ascendancy rather than focusing on creating a better world. It is a selfish form of religion and therefore not true religion but just the outward form. It is not what Christ taught.

Fundamentalism seeks world domination not world peace or world unity and is willing to sacrifice lives, friendships, world peace and unity to exalt itself.

Fundamentalism gets lost in theology instead of compassionate humanitarianism which is what religion is all about, to prefer others to ourselves.

Fundamentalism is not any one religion but is an obsession or fixation in a person or groups mind that only their way is the path to salvation and things like world peace are not high on their agenda.

Christ came for love. Today, it’s universal love or annihilation. If religion cannot unite it’s useless. Humanity needs a force to bring it together and fundamentalism is what destroys and separates people not brings them together.

If a person is ill and on their deathbed and a doctor is required the true religionist doesn’t question the doctors beliefs but the fundamentalist, not truly concerned about the patient insists it must be his doctor and would reject the doctor with the medicine and allow the patient to die unless it was his chosen doctor.

This is the state of our world today. Why don’t religions bury their selfish, self centred differences and unite for the sake of humanity? God is love and not competing for world domination as He already owns the world.

If religionists consider themselves true lovers of God and humanity then unite!!! Let’s all come together for the sake of God and humanity!! Let us Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist all become as one family and live together in peace. What has been the result of condemning each other’s beliefs as false? Wars, prejudice, alienation. Where are the fruits? Beliefs that do not unite are fit for the fire. Christ came for love. God is love. We must become love too.

Fundamentalism is the sickness of this age and it must die and give way to a wider loyalty and love for humanity if the endgame is love and not self supremacy.

It’s not about the exaltation of any brand of religion but all about the salvation of a war weary and suffering humanity. We must be unselfish and unitedly go to humanitys rescue.

The search for God is about people rejecting fundamentalism and searching for the God that loves all humanity unconditionally. How many wars have been fought in the name of religion and what was achieved? It’s time to unite. It’s time to love all mankind. It’s time to work together for a better world.

Let’s deal with Isaiah first.

Let’s take a breath.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

I fail to understand how one Gives up God Love and Unity to accept all men as Brothers and to do unto them as you would have them do unto you.

One just has to use ones belief in Love and Unity and not as a fundamental requirement.

Regards Tony

You said Christ came for love right? But didn’t Jesus say he didn’t come to bring Peace but a Sword?

So what are you looking for?

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

You said Christ came for love right? But didn’t Jesus say he didn’t come to bring Peace but a Sword?

So what are you looking for?

MJ

Christ new the result His Love would Bring. Christ also knew that there would be another revelarion between His and the Promised Day of God that mankind would not accept fully. That is why we have a promise of a future that will no be like that.

As you have said in Isaiah, there will be a time where the Sword will be turned into the plowshare.

Welcome to this time

God bless and regards Tony

 

[worldcitizen]

****Isaiah 2:4

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This speaks of the end of religious fanaticism and fundamentalism and the priority God has for peace and the outlawing of war. If peace is not a priority it wouldn’t be in the Bible.

*Isaiah 65:25

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.*

The competing and contesting sects will get along and become United once fundamentalism has been destroyed. No mention here is made of any supremacy but peace on earth and unity.

Fundamentalists only choose selectively the verses which speak of exaltation and don’t have a balanced view of the Bible but an extremist viewpoint. Like Muslim extremists who only cherry pick the verses that suit them so too Bible fundamentalists try at ‘all costs’ to take focus away from peace and back onto their supremacy ideals.

Except it won’t work in this age because the world is awake to these extremist views and is daily rejecting them more and more preferring a more balanced view of the scriptures accepting of all religions and people.

Again, love and unity is the entire purpose of the creation of the universe and not the supremacy of Jesus or any Prophet or Messiah. They came that we might learn love and unity and learn to be like God Himself Who loves all humanity and all religions unconditionally.

The God of the fundamentalists is a false God. The message of Christ was all about love. Trying to cherry pick verses to establish some supremacy misrepresents the purpose of the scriptures and we should have a balanced, moderate view not an extremist, narrow minded one as the Bible is not all about supremacy just like the Quran is not a military handbook. It’s fundamentalists which have given the Holy Scriptures a bad name and caused wars and bloodshed basically over nothing.

 

[MartinJordan]

Christ new the result His Love would Bring. Christ also knew that there would be another revelarion between His and the Promised Day of God that mankind would not accept fully. That is why we have a promise of a future that will no be like that.

As you have said in Isaiah, there will be a time where the Sword will be turned into the plowshare.

Welcome to this time

God bless and regards Tony

Jesus did not say such things.

What he did say was for example:

31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.

33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.

36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God[d]?

45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

It’s time to listen to Jesus. Easter people we are!

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

This quote was supplied by a friend today, very applicable to this post;

"Far from aiming at the overthrow of the spiritual foundation of the world’s religious systems, its avowed, its unalterable purpose is to widen their basis, to restate their fundamentals, to reconcile their aims, to reinvigorate their life, to demonstrate their oneness, to restore the pristine purity of their teachings, to coordinate their functions and to assist in the realization of their highest aspirations. These divinely-revealed religions, as a close observer has graphically expressed it, ‘are doomed not to die, but to be reborn…’ "

• Shoghi Effendi, The Dispensation of Baha’u’llah

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

This quote was supplied by a friend today, very applicable to this post;

"Far from aiming at the overthrow of the spiritual foundation of the world’s religious systems, its avowed, its unalterable purpose is to widen their basis, to restate their fundamentals, to reconcile their aims, to reinvigorate their life, to demonstrate their oneness, to restore the pristine purity of their teachings, to coordinate their functions and to assist in the realization of their highest aspirations. These divinely-revealed religions, as a close observer has graphically expressed it, ‘are doomed not to die, but to be reborn…’ "

• Shoghi Effendi, The Dispensation of Baha’u’llah

Regards Tony

This is better so that everyone can read, where certain ideas are coming from:
Thus Thornton stressed the Word and its transforming power, a theme typical in his writings. And how did Jesus acquire access to the Word? Was it a result of developing his own potential? No, Thornton replied,

it was the wonder-working power of the Holy Spirit, which dwelt within Him and spoke through Him. It was the invincible might of divine Love, which poured itself forth for man through Him. It was the triumphant force of the example of patient suffering and sacrifice in the path of God for the sake of humanity. Of himself, he could do nothing, and claimed to do nothing; but the F A T H E R, who dwelt in Him, worked and spoke through Him that which all the hosts of earth and heaven could not accomplish otherwise.[14]

This, Thornton said, was what Jesus meant when he said “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58)–that his reality was more than his personality or body, but the indwelling Spirit. This Spirit had returned in Bahá’u’lláh.
But, Thornton added, “the second coming' must bear evident marks of similitude to the first, in manner, character, instruction and in its Spirit, but it must be greater in results, wider in extension and different in effect."[15] He then gave examples. **Jesus said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword" (Matt. 10:34), but Bahá'u'lláh said that "the Most Great Peace must come,’ and He established the laws and provisions for that time of peace.”[16]** The Second Coming will reiterate the truths of the first but would elaborate on them and break the seals on the meanings of the books of the prophets. Instead of reaching just the Mediterranean region, as the revelation of Christ did in the first few centuries, the new revelation immediately reached the whole world:

  Already, were you going to Persia, Egypt, Russia, India, China, Japan, France, England, Italy, Australia, or the islands of the Sea, to Mohammedans, Buddhists, Brahmans, Zoroastrians, Confucians, Jews or Christians, I could give you introductions, or even one Word [Alláh-u-Abhá], which would cause you to be greeted with the utmost warmth, kindness and service, by those who, a little while ago, were of such varying faiths. We, here in Chicago, are constantly receiving the most beautiful, spiritual, sincere and loving letters from these scattered peoples, and they are written by men (and women) who are evidently not lacking in either ethical culture or spiritual knowledge. A net-work of love, friendship and loyalty to the One Cause and the One God and to His Holy Manifestations, past and present, a net of spiritual brotherhood and faith, tied with binding knots of sincerity, without regard to nationality, country or previous faith, is being woven around the world. It is the harbinger of that "Most Great Peace."[17]

The international spread of the Bahá’í Faith, so much greater today, was already impressive in the early years of the twentieth century. Even today, most Christians do not experience Christianity as an international religion as strongly as early twentieth-century Bahá’ís experienced the international dimension of the Bahá’í Faith. The Bahá’ís often saw the international spread of their Faith as a proof of its truth.

bahai-library.com/books/t.chase/ch.chapt15.html

Really? This is self absorbed and rejects Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

This is better so that everyone can read, where certain ideas are coming from:

Thus Thornton stressed the Word and its transforming power, a theme typical in his writings. And how did Jesus acquire access to the Word? Was it a result of developing his own potential? No, Thornton replied,

it was the wonder-working power of the Holy Spirit, which dwelt within Him and spoke through Him. It was the invincible might of divine Love, which poured itself forth for man through Him. It was the triumphant force of the example of patient suffering and sacrifice in the path of God for the sake of humanity. Of himself, he could do nothing, and claimed to do nothing; but the F A T H E R, who dwelt in Him, worked and spoke through Him that which all the hosts of earth and heaven could not accomplish otherwise.[14]

This, Thornton said, was what Jesus meant when he said “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58)–that his reality was more than his personality or body, but the indwelling Spirit. This Spirit had returned in Bahá’u’lláh.
But, Thornton added, “the second coming' must bear evident marks of similitude to the first, in manner, character, instruction and in its Spirit, but it must be greater in results, wider in extension and different in effect."[15] He then gave examples. **Jesus said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword" (Matt. 10:34), but Bahá'u'lláh said that "the Most Great Peace must come,’ and He established the laws and provisions for that time of peace.”[16]** The Second Coming will reiterate the truths of the first but would elaborate on them and break the seals on the meanings of the books of the prophets. Instead of reaching just the Mediterranean region, as the revelation of Christ did in the first few centuries, the new revelation immediately reached the whole world:

  Already, were you going to Persia, Egypt, Russia, India, China, Japan, France, England, Italy, Australia, or the islands of the Sea, to Mohammedans, Buddhists, Brahmans, Zoroastrians, Confucians, Jews or Christians, I could give you introductions, or even one Word [Alláh-u-Abhá], which would cause you to be greeted with the utmost warmth, kindness and service, by those who, a little while ago, were of such varying faiths. We, here in Chicago, are constantly receiving the most beautiful, spiritual, sincere and loving letters from these scattered peoples, and they are written by men (and women) who are evidently not lacking in either ethical culture or spiritual knowledge. A net-work of love, friendship and loyalty to the One Cause and the One God and to His Holy Manifestations, past and present, a net of spiritual brotherhood and faith, tied with binding knots of sincerity, without regard to nationality, country or previous faith, is being woven around the world. It is the harbinger of that "Most Great Peace."[17]

The international spread of the Bahá’í Faith, so much greater today, was already impressive in the early years of the twentieth century. Even today, most Christians do not experience Christianity as an international religion as strongly as early twentieth-century Bahá’ís experienced the international dimension of the Bahá’í Faith. The Bahá’ís often saw the international spread of their Faith as a proof of its truth.

bahai-library.com/books/t.chase/ch.chapt15.html

Really? This is self absorbed and rejects Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God.

MJ

I see a man on Fire with His Faith, putting His Faith into His Words spoken deep from His Heart.

I do not disagree with anything he said, it is also a viable and sound Biblical explanation, it has been said in much the same way on this Forum may times as well.

You have been hanging to post that for a while, thank you it was a great read

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

I see a man on Fire with His Faith, putting His Faith into His Words spoken deep from His Heart.

I do not disagree with anything he said, it is also a viable and sound Biblical explanation, it has been said in much the same way on this Forum may times as well.

You have been hanging to post that for a while, thank you it was a great read

Regards Tony

How is it Biblically sound? He doesn’t know what Jesus meant when he said “Not Peace but a Sword”.

I look forward to know how it is. Begin please…I’m very interested!

I’m also very keen to see others’ (name removed by moderator)ut especially this:

**but Bahá’u’lláh said **that “`the Most Great Peace must come,’ and He established the laws and provisions for that time of peace.”

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

How is it Biblically sound? He doesn’t know what Jesus meant when he said “Not Peace but a Sword”.

I look forward to know how it is. Begin please…

MJ

Thorton Chase was well aware of what Jesus Word Meant, much more than I and it must be considered there is also more than one meaning to every verse;

Mathew10:34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

Christ was saying that Peace would not be in this Age, that His message would Divide the true believer from the false, that Families would divide because of their belief.

The Sword of the Word of Christ would be divisive.

This is also carried through to the Revelation of Muhammad and the Bab and the Laws of Baha’u’llah have been formulated that these types of Family Conflicts should lessen as time unfolds and man reaches the ability to follow the guidance.

This but one little reflection on that passage

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

Thorton Chase was well aware of what Jesus Word Meant, much more than I and it must be considered there is also more than one meaning to every verse;

Mathew10:34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

Christ was saying that Peace would not be in this Age, that His message would Divide the true believer from the false, that Families would divide because of their belief.

The Sword of the Word of Christ would be divisive.

This is also carried through to the Revelation of Muhammad and the Bab and the Laws of Baha’u’llah have been formulated that these types of Family Conflicts should lessen as time unfolds and man reaches the ability to follow the guidance.

Regards Tony

What happened to:

“Anyone who loves their father or mother** more than me is not worthy of me**; **anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. **38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it. – Jesus (Matthew 10:34-38)

I also want to add notice how Thornton Chase says “Mohammedans” . Where was Islam all this while? Did Muslims now all rush to become Bahai?

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

No. Jesus was talking about something else (but I will digress in revealing this pearl) . It’s all over the Gospels and the NT. Look for it. It’s there. It’s also in our hearts too.

I also want to add notice how Thornton Chase says “Mohammedans” . Where was Islam all this while? Did Muslims now all rush to become Bahai? MJ

Please give me your Gem, Here is mine in return for it

“Hearken, and I will show you the meaning thereof: Although Christ came from Nazareth, which was a known place, He came also from heaven. His body was born of Mary, but His Spirit came from heaven. The sword He carried was the sword of His tongue, with which He divided the good from the evil, the true from the false, the faithful from the unfaithful, and the light from the darkness. His Word was indeed a sharp sword! The throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns forever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He reinterpreted and completed the Laws of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His Word conquered the East and the West. His kingdom is everlasting. He exalted those Jews who recognized Him. They were men and women of humble birth, but contact with Him made them great and gave them everlasting dignity. The animals who were to live with one another signified the different sects and races, who, once having been at war, were now to dwell in love and charity, drinking together the Water of Life from Christ the Eternal Spring”. bahai-library.com/books/new.era/13.html

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

Please give me your Gem, Here is mine in return for it

“Hearken, and I will show you the meaning thereof: Although Christ came from Nazareth, which was a known place, He came also from heaven. His body was born of Mary, but His Spirit came from heaven. The sword He carried was the sword of His tongue, with which He divided the good from the evil, the true from the false, the faithful from the unfaithful, and the light from the darkness. His Word was indeed a sharp sword! The throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns forever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He reinterpreted and completed the Laws of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His Word conquered the East and the West. His kingdom is everlasting. He exalted those Jews who recognized Him. They were men and women of humble birth, but contact with Him made them great and gave them everlasting dignity. The animals who were to live with one another signified the different sects and races, who, once having been at war, were now to dwell in love and charity, drinking together the Water of Life from Christ the Eternal Spring”. bahai-library.com/books/new.era/13.html

Regards Tony

It’s backward. He came down from Heaven. Not from Nazareth. Christ came from Heaven.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

It’s backward. He came down from Heaven. Not from Nazareth. Christ came from Heaven.

MJ

:juggle::juggle:

That will do Martin…Over the years we have said enough - God Bless always and Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

:juggle::juggle:

That will do Martin…Over the years we have said enough - God Bless always and Regards Tony

So you don’t want to complete Jesus’ discourse. Verse 37 onwards?

Plus the only time the word Humble comes up with the words you gave is, for the Jewish people. But Jesus humbled himself even though he was from Heaven.

There is so much but it may be too much for you.

MJ