Fundamentalism and the Search for God

[Servant19]

So please clarify what you are looking for.

Peace be with you

MJ

I am looking for a willingness for Christians to delve deeply and with sincerity into the lives of other Prophets and to see what was the LIGHT that they brought. Focusing only on the light that they passed on from themselves to the hearts of men that followed Them. LOOKING deeply and sincerely for anything that is light.

For Jesus was the Light, totally agreed.

In Exodus 34:29 we see also that Moses was the source of all radiance and Light. This Light is bestowed upon His Messengers by the Father.

Muhammad was also the Light.
"It is related that Jābir ibn ‘Abd Allāh said to the Prophet, “O Messenger of Allāh, may my father and mother be sacrificed for you, tell me of the first thing Allāh created before all things.” He said: O Jābir, the first thing Allāh created was the light of your Prophet from His light, and that light remained in the midst of His Power for as long as He wished, and there was not, at that time, a Tablet or a Pen or a Paradise or a Fire or an angel or a heaven or an earth.

There are so many references from Baha’u’llah and the Bab being the Light of creation that it will fill the post too much to quote any of them.

So it seems evident that it is the WORD that is the Light, not the physical flesh of a Messenger that appears before us with a name. The Light returns again and again from Age to Age.

And that was my question. Is there a reference in the Bible that says that this Light cannot return again after the Ascension of Jesus?

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[MartinJordan]

What does it mean, Martin, that you become the “Light of the World”? What will I see in a person who is the “Light of the World”?

I know that in Matt 5 you mention that it talks about showing forth good deeds that can be shown before men to be like a “light”, but is it only the followers of Jesus that can show forth deeds such as this?

The beatitudes (sermon on the mount) answer this. Jesus own words so we his flock listen to him. If one wants to follow Jesus this is compulsory.

He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

So it comes directly from Jesus. So By following him we become Light of the World and thus Glorify God through his Son.

In the Baha’i Writings, the Truth of other Prophets as “lights” is recognized:

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Interesting.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

I am looking for a willingness for Christians to delve deeply and with sincerity into the lives of other Prophets and to see what was the LIGHT that they brought.

The Light of Christ is Glorifying God. So we follow his command and through Jesus name we try to follow the Father’s Will. We falter that’s for sure but Christ is our focus and his Mercy will always bring us back to him by our repentance. This is a peace the world cannot give.

Focusing only on the light that they passed on from themselves to the hearts of men that followed Them. LOOKING deeply and sincerely for anything that is light.

Perhaps you don’t understand the Light Jesus is talking about and continues guide from the right hand of the Father.

Praying for peace for you.

To be.contd. Family time

MJ

 

[Servant19]

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Thankyou brother

I think I’ve explained to you the meaning of light on a larger scale than the narrower Christian vision of “Jesus is the only Light”

Is there another verse you wish to discuss further from John?

Peace be with you dear friend.

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[MartinJordan]

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Thankyou brother

I think I’ve explained to you the meaning of light on a larger scale than the narrower Christian vision of “Jesus is the only Light”

Is there another verse you wish to discuss further from John?

Peace be with you dear friend.

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I’m not sure how what I’ve shown from the Gospel make you say light in the larger scale. Very puzzling. John 1 as I’ve shown you what the Light is. had this. But worth repeating.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.4 In him was life, and that life was the lightt all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyonewas coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believedin his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory,the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God,but the one and only Son, who is himself God and** is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known

Let me then give you more insight about the Light from the Gospel,

Always remember we focus on Christ the Light of the world as he came to save us from our sins even with we were still in Sin.

An excerpt here I shall give from Acts 13 may be useful for you here:

Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39** Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses ** 40 Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you:

I pray the Peace of Christ come make a home in you.

To be contd

MJ**

 

[MartinJordan]

Acts 13

“After this, God gave them judges until the time of Samuel the prophet. 21 Then the people asked for a king, and he gave them Saul son of Kish, of the tribe of Benjamin,who ruled forty years. 22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’
23 “From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised. 24 Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel. 25 As John was completing his work, he said: ‘Who do you suppose I am? I am not the one you are looking for. But there is one coming after me whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.’

26 “**Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. 27 **

We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors 33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus.

As it is written in the second Psalm:
“‘You are my son;
today I have become your father.

34 God raised him from the dead so that he will never be subject to decay. As God has said,
“‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’
35 So it is also stated elsewhere:

“‘You will not let your holy one see decay.

36 “Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestorsand his body decayed. 37 But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.

38 “Therefore, my friends, I want you to know that **through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. **

It is there Servant. The Mercy of God is with us . Through Christ our Lord our Light.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

The Mercy of God is with us . Through Christ our Lord our Light. Peace be with you. MJ

This is what every Baha’i accepts with all their heart and soul, that Christ is the Light. It is further clarified in the Bahai Writings;

“In very age of great spiritual darkness, a light is kindled in the East. So once again the light of the teachings of God has come unto you…so does the spiritual fire travel from East to West. I hope that the people of the West may be illumined by the light of God; that the Kingdom may come to them, that they may find eternal Life, that the Spirit of God may spread like a fire among them, that they may be baptized with the Water of Life and may find a new birth”. (Abdu’l-Baha : Abdu’l-Baha in London)

Is the Divine Manifestation, God?

Yes, and yet not in Essence. A Divine Manifestation is as a mirror reflecting the light of the Sun. The light is the same and yet the mirror is not the Sun. All the Manifestations of God bring the same Light; they only differ in degree, not in reality. The Truth is one. The light is the same though the lamps may be different; we must look at the Light not at the Lamp. If we accept the Light in one, we must accept the Light in all; all agree, because all are the same. The teaching is ever the same, it is only the outward forms that change.
The Manifestations of God are as the heavenly bodies. All have their appointed place and time of ascension, but the Light they give is the same. if one wishes to look for the sun rising, one does not look always at the same point because that point changes with the seasons. When one sees the sun rise further in the north one recognizes it, though it has risen at a different point. (Abdu’l-Baha : Abdu’l-Baha in London)

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

I’m not sure how what I’ve shown from the Gospel make you say light in the larger scale. Very puzzling. John 1 as I’ve shown you what the Light is. had this. But worth repeating.

The larger scale is familiarising and availing yourself to what God has revealed through other Prophets.
Your eyes are only set on Jesus, which is great, but not so great at the same time…

You are effectively saying that you are only interested in chocolate from Cadbury’s. I ask you to try the chocolate from Lindt, but you say no, “there is only one chocolate and that is Cadbury’s”



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[MartinJordan]

This is what every Baha’i accepts with all their heart and soul, that Christ is the Light. It is further clarified in the Bahai Writings;

“In very age of great spiritual darkness, a light is kindled in the East. So once again the light of the teachings of God has come unto you…so does the spiritual fire travel from East to West. I hope that the people of the West may be illumined by the light of God; that the Kingdom may come to them, that they may find eternal Life, that the Spirit of God may spread like a fire among them, that they may be baptized with the Water of Life and may find a new birth”. (Abdu’l-Baha : Abdu’l-Baha in London)

Is the Divine Manifestation, God?

Yes, and yet not in Essence. A Divine Manifestation is as a mirror reflecting the light of the Sun. The light is the same and yet the mirror is not the Sun. All the Manifestations of God bring the same Light; they only differ in degree, not in reality. The Truth is one. The light is the same though the lamps may be different; we must look at the Light not at the Lamp. If we accept the Light in one, we must accept the Light in all; all agree, because all are the same. The teaching is ever the same, it is only the outward forms that change.
The Manifestations of God are as the heavenly bodies. All have their appointed place and time of ascension, but the Light they give is the same. if one wishes to look for the sun rising, one does not look always at the same point because that point changes with the seasons. When one sees the sun rise further in the north one recognizes it, though it has risen at a different point. (Abdu’l-Baha : Abdu’l-Baha in London)

Regards Tony

I don’t see Jesus saying anything of the kind above. He is our Light. And we are assured the peace we get from Christ as he promised. Perhaps you’re still searching.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

The larger scale is familiarising and availing yourself to what God has revealed through other Prophets.
Your eyes are only set on Jesus, which is great, but not so great at the same time…

You are effectively saying that you are only interested in chocolate from Cadbury’s. I ask you to try the chocolate from Lindt, but you say no, “there is only one chocolate and that is Cadbury’s”



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Just go through again what I’ve posted from the Holy Gospel. There’s more actually but be assured even as we speak Heaven rejoices where the Saints and the Angels along with the flock of Christ (the Church Militant here on earth ) acclaim:

Holy Holy Holy Lord. God of power and might Heaven and Earth are full of your Glory. Hosanna in the Highest. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the Highest! :harp:

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

The larger scale is familiarising and availing yourself to what God has revealed through other Prophets.
Your eyes are only set on Jesus, which is great, but not so great at the same time…

It doesn’t make sense what you are getting at Servant. You’ve already seen what Jesus said about Moses. So from Moses you’ve understood differently, but not understood Jesus words about himself.

You are effectively saying that you are only interested in chocolate from Cadbury’s. I ask you to try the chocolate from Lindt, but you say no, “there is only one chocolate and that is Cadbury’s”

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Cadbury and Lindt are earthly things. So not really.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

I don’t see Jesus saying anything of the kind above. He is our Light. And we are assured the peace we get from Christ as he promised. Perhaps you’re still searching.

Peace be with you.

MJ

Yes seek and ye shall find does not end.

The ocean of Gods Word can not be exhausted.

Regards Tony

 

[worldcitizen]

The larger scale is familiarising and availing yourself to what God has revealed through other Prophets.
Your eyes are only set on Jesus, which is great, but not so great at the same time…

You are effectively saying that you are only interested in chocolate from Cadbury’s. I ask you to try the chocolate from Lindt, but you say no, “there is only one chocolate and that is Cadbury’s”



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How can you say such a thing Servant? Cadbury’s is the ONLY chocolate and all else is false chocolate!!

 

[MartinJordan]

Yes seek and ye shall find does not end.

The ocean of Gods Word can not be exhausted.

Regards Tony

As i said, you seem to still searching.

However:

**Now may the God of peace, **who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, 21 equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, **to whom be glory for ever and ever. **Amen. Hebrews 13:20

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

How can you say such a thing Servant? Cadbury’s is the ONLY chocolate and all else is false chocolate!!

Here is a quote from a Buddhist member of CAF:

"The Buddha said, “Love others as you love yourself.” - Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra 91.

Do you think that the Catholic Church rejects that? Do you think that it is not true and holy?

Where other religions get things right, then the Catholic Church accepts them. Where other religions get things wrong, then the Catholic Church rejects them. Wisely, it does not throw out the baby with the bathwater."

So, no one is saying everything is false.

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

Here is a quote from a Buddhist member of CAF:

"The Buddha said, “Love others as you love yourself.” - Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra 91.

Do you think that the Catholic Church rejects that? Do you think that it is not true and holy?

Where other religions get things right, then the Catholic Church accepts them. Where other religions get things wrong, then the Catholic Church rejects them. Wisely, it does not throw out the baby with the bathwater."

So, no one is saying everything is false.

MJ

That’s very reasonable.

 

[Servant19]

It doesn’t make sense what you are getting at Servant. You’ve already seen what Jesus said about Moses. So from Moses you’ve understood differently, but not understood Jesus words about himself.

Cadbury and Lindt are earthly things. So not really.

Peace be with you.

MJ

Jesus revealed only what you could swallow, Martin.

The fact that St.Paul said what he did about Moses does not deny the reality that Moses still radiated Light, Divine Light.

How do you reconcile these realities?

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[Servant19]

How can you say such a thing Servant? Cadbury’s is the ONLY chocolate and all else is false chocolate!!

Actually, I have news. Lindt is the ONLY real chocolate.

Keep it to yourself

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[Servant19]

Here is a quote from a Buddhist member of CAF:

"The Buddha said, “Love others as you love yourself.” - Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra 91.

Do you think that the Catholic Church rejects that? Do you think that it is not true and holy?

Where other religions get things right, then the Catholic Church accepts them. Where other religions get things wrong, then the Catholic Church rejects them. Wisely, it does not throw out the baby with the bathwater."

So, no one is saying everything is false.

MJ

But some say the Speaker of Words such as this are not from God?

When Words such as this return to God with a transformed and divinised human heart attached to them, I am often reminded of Isaiah 55:11

…so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

These Words that create a new race of men with transformed hearts, sacrificing their all for the one God, come from God, and the Messenger delivering that Word is also from God, the Word made flesh.

Look at the fruits Martin.

Seek the fruits and within each you will see the seed down by God Himself, through His Word made flesh, whether that’s Moses, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab or Baha’u’llah

God bless you.

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[MartinJordan]

Jesus revealed only what you could swallow, Martin.

So what are you saying?

The fact that St.Paul said what he did about Moses does not deny the reality that Moses still radiated Light, Divine Light.

How do you reconcile these realities?

.

You are making no sense. What did Paul say?

Peace be with you.

MJ