Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

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why_me said:
The state is grasping at straws. I am sure that they will find one child that has been abused as is the case throughout society. But the state has lost its claim and is now most likely trying to head off massive lawsuits. But the lawsuits will eventually come unless the flds just decided to keep silent and go back to their normal lives.
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i am totally confused about all this…

Was it or was it not proven that young girls were allowed to “marry” (fornicate with) older men? Because if the state doesn’t think that is abuse… :confused: THAT is the most shokcing thing about this case…
 
twopekinguys said:
Even if they do allow themselves to be, I sincerely doubt any jury would side with the FLDS.
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I would LOVE to be on that jury… because, for one hting,

then i would hear the whole story…

I have yet to fully understand what did and did not happen on the compound… (I guess it would help to watch the news once in awhile… 😃 ) but even so… i haven’t learned much here… except that some say this and some say that…

Was there ever actually an underage girl who was “married” to an older man? Statutory rape… and was anyone convicted? Jeffs??
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
There is absolutely nothing worse than the foster care system. That is where most children end up being abused. Many people who are foster care parents do it only for the money. To pull these little children away from their mothers and place them into foster care homes was (in my mind) criminal.
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much as i dislike the philosophy of the FLDS… I do agree with this… and i know from experience how true this is…

I have known of children abused in foster care… worse than the alleged (key word) abuse of the parents… Many parents accused are NOT guilty… but the stigma of child abuse is so … emotionally-charged… that people just assume parents who have their children removed from the home are abusive… (guilty before found innocnet)
 
twopekinguys said:
)

CPS went into the compound with a warrant. Warrants are not issued willy nilly.
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In some states they ARE… don’t know about TX…
They have to go before a judge, explain why they believe they need the warrant, and then the warrant is either issued or denied. So, the “supposition” argument is now moot.
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i don’t think so… in light of the first comment i made…
 
majick275 said:
you’re british how would you know? CPS is an agency of the state. you can’t come after them for monetary damages.
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I have my doubts about that. So the CPS can go around murdering people, and nobody can do anything about it?

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
I have my doubts about that. So the CPS can go around murdering people, and nobody can do anything about it?

zerinus
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yeah, pretty hard to believe, huh? In this so-called free country… but this country is not as free as “it” would like to think… I am not sure i want to elaborate… don’t have time anyway… but the Constitution is violated all the time…

Don’t trust it…
 
Distracted,

Here is a link to the Affidavit, and the search and arrest warrant(s).

Please note the judges signature on pages 4,6,11,13,17 and 20.

So, again, CPS and law enforcement went in front of a judge, with what the judge thought was enough evidence to issue the warrant.

courts.state.tx.us/yfzranch/pdf/Afft4SearchArrestWarrant.pdf

Also pay close attention to the last 3 paragraphs of page 9, and those that follow.

Those pages where young people interviewed provided information indicating underage pregnancies. It also shows a certain amount of “control” over the women/children of this compound when one has to look at a leader, and be told how old she is.
 
zerinus said:
I have my doubts about that. So the CPS can go around murdering people, and nobody can do anything about it?

zerinus
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of course not don’t be absurd. people can’t sue CPS for monetary damages unless Texas allows it. individuals within CPS who violate teh law can still be prosecuted for crimes. they had a valid warrant so don’t even try to go there in this case.
 
distracted said:
yeah, pretty hard to believe, huh? In this so-called free country… but this country is not as free as “it” would like to think… I am not sure i want to elaborate… don’t have time anyway… but the Constitution is violated all the time…

Don’t trust it…
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i’ll agree with you here. the IRS is a prime example.
 
zerinus said:
I have my doubts about that. So the CPS can go around murdering people, and nobody can do anything about it?

zerinus
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Those who work for CPS, or any gov’t agency, are only protected from lawsuits so long as they are acting within the scope of their official duties. Any employee who murdered someone under color of authority would not be immune to either prosecution or civil suit because they acted outside the scope of their authority. We see this with police officers prosecuted for shooting or beating someone without just cause.

In this case, it would be very difficult if not impossible to prove that the agents acted outside the scope of their jobs. But that’s what any attempted suit would need to prove.

Paul
 
PaulDupre said:
Those who work for CPS, or any gov’t agency, are only protected from lawsuits so long as they are acting within the scope of their official duties. Any employee who murdered someone under color of authority would not be immune to either prosecution or civil suit because they acted outside the scope of their authority.
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There are possible legal grounds for believing that the CPS acted outside of their legal mandate when they took hundreds of kids from their families without adequate justification. Take a look at my previous post here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3848448&postcount=496

zerinus
 
majick275 said:
even that doesn’t make them subject to civil suits. at best that would result in disciplinary action against the individuals who authorized it.
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There is a collective responsibility here, not just of individuals. The CPS itself becomes culpable.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
There is a collective responsibility here, not just of individuals. The CPS itself becomes culpable.

zerinus
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it doesn’t matter. as an agency of the state they are protected from civil suits b y sovereign immunity. all the FLDS could do is get their kids back. they can’t get money from them in a lawsuit.
 
twopekinguys said:
So, again, CPS and law enforcement went in front of a judge, with what the judge thought was enough evidence to issue the warrant.

.
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thanks for the info… but judges are human, CPS are human and cops… well… I won’t say it… 😃

Also… i don’t have a clue whether any given state is corrupt in its CPS or judges or whatever… but I HAVE heard that Texas is one that IS corrupt… along with Oregon, California, Alabama… and NY…

I doubt that list is exhaustive…
 
majick275 said:
it doesn’t matter. as an agency of the state they are protected from civil suits b y sovereign immunity. all the FLDS could do is get their kids back. they can’t get money from them in a lawsuit.
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so even if the children were abused while in CPS custody, the parents can’t sue for damages?? that’s not right.
 
distracted said:
so even if the children were abused while in CPS custody, the parents can’t sue for damages?? that’s not right.
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they could sue the abusive/neglectful foster parents or they could sue the individual CPS member that committed the abuse but no they can’t get money out of it.
 
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