J
JustaServant
Guest
I can’t stand liberal Christianity and I’m a Catholic.
- Status
J
JustaServant
Guest
It’s not a question of diagnosing people. But I have found when one does try to show them that they are wrong, one is met with psychological barriars not based on reason or logic. Now, that doesn’t hold true for all types of fundamentalists. But the more radical cultic types.
A
Andre1000
Guest
I could say the same about the Catholic Church, we also do not want any change in doctrine.
The Catholic Church does this ever more, it puts Sacred Tradition(aka never change the teaching) on the same level as the Bible. The big difference is: That the Catholic Church can say this “not changing” helps to keep the teaching of Jesus, because the Church is old enough(Jesus founded it and every change is away from Jesus).
J
johnnyjones
Guest
There is much truth to that statement. I came out of Fundamentalism after being raised Catholic and I’ve reverted to Catholicism. I will say though that once some Catholics see a non-mandated alternate view of scripture, even if it does not conflict with the Magesterium to be a Catholic, red flags and claims of strict Fundamentalism are thrown around.
The word born again which you earlier referrenced has been hi-jacked and used in New Age circles. Many Protestants use it as a tool to show you have “not arrived yet” into our fold. Born again is simply born of the spirit, because obviously you can’t be born of the flesh again as Jesus said. Too many weird connotations with those words, but I adhere to it in it’s traditional sense.
As I said in my earlier post which I think deserves repeating, Fundamentalism comes from rote reading and out of contexts applications. It is also almost a pure denial that tradition plays any role in the church.
J
JustaServant
Guest
As I have said numerous times in the thread, fundamentalism is very non-sectarian. It infects Catholics and Protestants.
Now, you mention rote reading. Do you mean memorization? Because that is the one aspect of fundamentalism that has a plus to it. There are many verses that remain in my memory and often arise during homilies. Catholics would do well to train kids in Bible memorization, IMO.
J
JustaServant
Guest
M
minkymurph
Guest
Is whether or not you can stand liberal Christianity not depended on what one perceives ‘liberal’ Christianity to be? I would argue ‘liberal’ Christianity covers a very broad spectrum.
T
Taestron
Guest
Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a fundamentalist Catholic? If so or not, why, and what constitutes a fundamentalist Catholic? Do some of the hypotheses about fundamentalists (i.e. pride, fearful) still hold true about Catholic fundamentalists albeit redirected into other issues than the ones Protestant fundamentalists hold dear?
J
JustaServant
Guest
I was addressing CyberAngel’s post that seemed to suggest the only options are liberal Christianity or fundamentalism, both extremes.
F
fhansen
Guest
In the 19th century, while modernism was beginning to influence Protestant thought (as it was to do later in Catholicism), many Protestant leaders determined to protect the essentials of Christian doctrine with a sort of creed that set forth a handful of teachings, or “fundamentals”, that could not be compromised. Most of these agree with Catholic teaching today. The purpose of our faith, after all, is to provide answers to questions that are not to be found by the use of reason and experience alone. As a result, there will always be a tension between those “dogmatists” who maintain the importance of these supernatural, unprovable, teachings and the more “enlightened” thinkers who reject them.
Many fundamentalists today have become consumed with maintaining doctrines which aren’t necessarily consistent with the Christian faith, mainly due to a hyper-liiteralist interpretation of scripture while rejecting the supernaturally endowed authority of the Church to know and proclaim the gospel correctly. In one sense, ironically, they share a trait with their adversaries-they end up leaning on their own understanding, referring to Prov 3:5-6, a charge I’m sure they’d reject.
Another irony, IMO, is that a believer who holds to the teachings of the CC can sometimes be labeled fundamentalist/traditionalist by more liberal thinkers within the Church.
J
jericho777
Guest
I whole hardily agree especially as Christians we are called to step outside our comfort zone. That’s what Saint Paul’s credo was to be all things to all people. It is imperative as ambassadors of Christ that we preach the gospel wherever we go. To be the changing force in our societies for the glory of God.Certainly fundamentalism takes many forms. You can be a ‘fundamentalist’ anything. To say that all fundamentalists have a mental defect or are looking for an easy life would a huge generalization.
There is no doubt people feel safe with their own ‘kind’ and a sense of belonging and group acceptance is a powerful societal force, but I would argue that is not necessarily a good thing. It may be sometimes, but not all the time. Yes, it’s good to hang out with like minded people, but not all the time. I also remember someone saying to me when you’re inside the circle you can’t see whats going on, you have to step outside the circle and look in to see what is going on.
I think people should step outside their comfort zone. If you never step outside your comfort zone, (Not ‘you’ personally) you will find it much more difficult to put yourself in someone else’s shoes, or see things from anyone else’s perspective. Meaning, you’re understanding of the world around will be very limited. It also facilitates the formation of opinions based on little more than assumptions, leading to stereotyping which creates prejudice. People inside the ‘circle,’ whatever that ‘circle’ may be are often unaware of these effects because they are inside the ‘circle.’ Those on the ‘outside’ can see it quite clearly. People inside the ‘circle’ are often less open to new ideas, resistant to change and stay people stuck within a certain mindset.
There are people who can maintain their identity and culture and integrate. I’m not boasting but the Irish are particularly good at that. (Well, they are when they go abroad, they’re not so good at it at home.) The Chinese are another example. The Chinese have been in Ireland for years and have maintained their identity while and the same time integrating exceedingly well. There are other ethnic minorities that just refuse to integrate and consequently, they tend to be unpopular which also leads to stereotyping and prejudice.
For one to maintain ones identity in a greater setting is difficult at best. The balance between identity and assimilation is a fine line. There is the constant threat of losing that identity. Intermarriage is a primary danger to identity loss. I don’t know if you are privy or not to the struggles your Chinese community faces to maintain identity but I can only imagine it is not easy.
Separation occurs across the spectrum without regard to religious stripe. There are two catholic churches in town one is the Irish church and the other the French church. Growing up they didn’t go to each other’s churches and I always wondered why we always went to the one and not the other. There was disassociation between them even though they were both catholic. No church is immune to this and must take precautions against this type of behavior. I was at the end of that era so it wasn’t a factor for me. I can see the issues now for what they are.
C
CyberAngel
Guest
Ohhh…then…after all…I can’t be a true fundamentalistI never said God does not forgive sins.
I said fundamentalists do not have that assurance despite thier claims.
But I’m very strict with the scriptures, always defending them
Maybe I just have fundamentalist tendency
C
CyberAngel
Guest
*Pro 3:6 In all thy ways think on him, and he will direct thy steps. *
Without the Holy Spirit to guide as and without the gift of teaching
how could one understand the scriptures?
I had to change my doctrines or at least refine them many times during the past two decades.
*Mat 22:29 And Jesus answering, said to them: You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. *
F
fhansen
Guest
Yes, so did I, until I found them, to my own surprise, agreeing with the CC.
M
minkymurph
Guest
There is no doubt there are extremes at both ends of the spectrum. What I was driving at is some would define ‘liberal’ Christianity as anything that is not fundamentalist. (I am not saying that’s what you think.) As such, a misconception is created in that if you are not a fundamentalist you are a ‘liberal,’ as there is no specific term to define those whose views cannot be placed at either extreme end of the spectrum, but fall somewhere in between. Some fall more towards the fundamentalist end of the spectrum, and some fall more towards the extreme liberal end, and many are somewhere in-between.
Personally, I think there is a bit of a liberal, a conservative, a rebel and a traditionalist in all of us in varying quantities. Many of us hold views that can be classified as liberal, while at the same time holding views that can be classified as conservative. Some of us are a bit of a mixture and don’t fit neatly into a box.
J
JustaServant
Guest
What has this have to do with the subject?
Are you implying Catholics do not have the Holy Spirit?
Do you beleive the Holy Spirit leads many people to the CC?
J
JustaServant
Guest
Exactly.
Humans are far more complicated than fundamentalists wish us to be.
M
minkymurph
Guest
There is no doubt maintaining one’s own identity in a greater setting is a more difficult task and requires greater skill. However, it is not impossible and reaps greater rewards. In relation to the Irish, what I said only applies to Irish people who are open-minded. It does not apply to those who are not, and being Irish does not mean you will automatically be open minded. One of the reasons the Irish, similarly to the Chinese, acquired the capacity to maintain their own identity and integrate is because China and Ireland were both poor countries and people traveled in search of work, coming home when they could. Have you been anywhere in the world that does not have a Chinese take-a-way and an Irish pub?
As such, they acquired the skill to both maintain their identity and integrate.
I can’t say I agree with you on inter-marriage. As discussed above, inter-marriage is unquestionably more difficult and places a greater demand on the couple. However, there are people who manage it very well. In my part of the world, a ‘mixed’ marriage is a Protestant and a Catholic. ‘Mixed’ marriages are actually quite prevalent, and there are people who manage it very well. Of course there are those who don’t, but they by and large don’t get married to someone whose views differ from theirs.
M
minkymurph
Guest
That is my problem with fundamentalism. If you don’t fit neatly into the box, there is just no place for you. Christianity is universal. We should not all have to fit neatly into a box.
J
jericho777
Guest
I did read it and I have not spent any time with monastic’s nor do I know the finer points of the various orders but I don’t have to, to know that someone who TOTALLY separates themselves from the world for whatever reason is denying the Lords command to be salt and light.
Sorry to hear you all were such a bunch of sad sacks with a bad case of myopithy! I have never met such folks myself. If you were a pastor and should have known better why didn’t you follow the biblical mandate on humility?
- Status