Fundamentalist Mindset

[jericho777]

There is no doubt maintaining one’s own identity in a greater setting is a more difficult task and requires greater skill. However, it is not impossible and reaps greater rewards. In relation to the Irish, what I said only applies to Irish people who are open-minded. It does not apply to those who are not, and being Irish does not mean you will automatically be open minded. One of the reasons the Irish, similarly to the Chinese, acquired the capacity to maintain their own identity and integrate is because China and Ireland were both poor countries and people traveled in search of work, coming home when they could. Have you been anywhere in the world that does not have a Chinese take-a-way and an Irish pub?
As such, they acquired the skill to both maintain their identity and integrate.

I can’t say I agree with you on inter-marriage. As discussed above, inter-marriage is unquestionably more difficult and places a greater demand on the couple. However, there are people who manage it very well. In my part of the world, a ‘mixed’ marriage is a Protestant and a Catholic. ‘Mixed’ marriages are actually quite prevalent, and there are people who manage it very well. Of course there are those who don’t, but they by and large don’t get married to someone whose views differ from theirs.

I have been remiss to point out there is the Holy Spirit who upholds us in our circumstances. That’s where faith comes into the equation.

In mixed marriages there is someone who will have to compromise their beliefs there is no way around it.

 

[Contarini]

It’s not really a case of ‘diagnosing’ people. I would argue understanding the psychology is an essential element of handing on faith and developing faith in others. If you little in the way of understanding why someone thinks the way they do, you are less likely to be successful in reaching them.

Agreed. The problem is that it’s easy to come up with dismissive reasons why we think someone disagrees with us. If they are more liberal, it’s because they fear the limitations imposed by truth. If they’re more conservative, it’s because they fear change and uncertainty. And so on. I think this can be a trap.

Just out of interest, what’s Episcopalian?

It’s the American branch of the Anglican Communion–at least that’s the simplest way to describe it, though the present reality is a bit more complicated.

Edwin

 

[minkymurph]

I have been remiss to point out there is the Holy Spirit who upholds us in our circumstances. That’s where faith comes into the equation.

In mixed marriages there is someone who will have to compromise their beliefs there is no way around it.

Really? On what do you base this assertion?

 

[minkymurph]

Agreed. The problem is that it’s easy to come up with dismissive reasons why we think someone disagrees with us. If they are more liberal, it’s because they fear the limitations imposed by truth. If they’re more conservative, it’s because they fear change and uncertainty. And so on. I think this can be a trap.

True, and why we think someone disagrees with us may not be the reason at all. I had a boss whose golden rule was, ‘never assume anything.’

It’s the American branch of the Anglican Communion–at least that’s the simplest way to describe it, though the present reality is a bit more complicated.

Edwin

Ah, thanks. I wasn’t sure if it was Anglican or Presbyterian.

 

[Church_Militant]

Any belief system that claims “truth” as its basis by its nature has to be sectarian to a point otherwise they will cease to be. How can you really believe something and claim to be bound by it but then deny it by your practice? The cc has pronounced all that leave it to be accursed and going to hell. That’s as sectarian as it gets.

And Fundamentalists don’t? C’mon…they readily condemn anyone who doesn’t agree with them, and especially us Catholics.http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/3.gif

As for the fact that anyone who knows the truth of the Catholic faith and then chooses to reject and/or abandon it does so at the peril of their soul is clearly supported by the Word of God. (See Hebrews 6:4)

That being said we are called to be in the world and not of it. That means not denying your core values.

Can’t think of a single faithful Catholic that does that.

I was never suggesting withdrawing one’s self from living in the world. You neglected to read the last sentence about living in the world and not being part of it. How else can the world be changed if you are not engaging them with the gospel of Christ? Aren’t those who are living separated lives in monastic communities doing what you are accusing fundamentalists of?

Bah! So you would condemn faithful who actually do battle by constant and effective prayer while ministering to the poor and marginalized of society? You clearly don’t know a blessed think about religious orders.
Take a look at this article on my blog and skip down to the part that begins with “I’m adding this next part from a dear Franciscan Brother…” Priestly celibacy is unBiblical. NOT!

Simply put, monastic orders separate out of humility.

…and obedience

Some would say humility is a false premiss or selfish excuse. I don’t think fundamentalists think they are superior by any stretch. You can call it whatever you like and the reasons don’t matter because in the end either group is not engaging the culture for Christ.

(Note: CAF’s Forum Rules do not allow us to use the short nickname that you did.)

So St. John the Baptist was “not engaging the culture for Christ” by his separation? Don’t tell him that…

I don’t know about everyone else here (just a few really), but all the faithful Catholics that I know are both separated *and *engaged with our godawful culture for Christ.

I don’t know about superiority, but most of the fundamentalist types I have known seemed more into their own comfort zone than anything else. They have generally badmouthed my Catholic faith and sought to proselytize me away from it with polemics and rhetoric that showed a lack of accurate knowledge of Catholicism and a disrespect for me as a person. One guy had the nerve to tell me I was “too smart to believe all this”, which merited him a surprised look and a burst of laughter from me. :yup:

Or how about *fear *in place of superiority?

That is kinda my own thinking.

I can’t join any Assembly which

c) has some other teaching/doctrine that I can’t stand
AND
taking Bible mostly literally (You know what I mean)
Creation, Young Earth, miracles, Virgin birth, resurrection
Anything against Liberal Christianity
Can’t even stand the new translations which seem to change the text

Is this being a Fundamentalist?

What doctrines would those be?
Why would you have problems with Christians who believe in “miracles, Virgin birth, resurrection”. They are all found in the Bible and in Sacred Tradition.

What new translations? Granted I have my favorites in the RSV-2CE and the Douay-Rheims Bible, and some I don’t really care for, but I can make almost any of them work.

 

[JustaServant]

And Fundamentalists don’t? C’mon…they readily condemn anyone who doesn’t agree with them, and especially us Catholics.http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/3.gif

As for the fact that anyone who knows the truth of the Catholic faith and then chooses to reject and/or abandon it does so at the peril of their soul is clearly supported by the Word of God. (See Hebrews 6:4)Can’t think of a single faithful Catholic that does that.Bah! So you would condemn faithful who actually do battle by constant and effective prayer while ministering to the poor and marginalized of society? You clearly don’t know a blessed think about religious orders.
Take a look at this article on my blog and skip down to the part that begins with “I’m adding this next part from a dear Franciscan Brother…” Priestly celibacy is unBiblical. NOT!
…and obedience(Note: CAF’s Forum Rules do not allow us to use the short nickname that you did.)

So St. John the Baptist was “not engaging the culture for Christ” by his separation? Don’t tell him that…

I don’t know about everyone else here (just a few really), but all the faithful Catholics that I know are both separated *and *engaged with our godawful culture for Christ.

I don’t know about superiority, but most of the fundamentalist types I have known seemed more into their own comfort zone than anything else. They have generally badmouthed my Catholic faith and sought to proselytize me away from it with polemics and rhetoric that showed a lack of accurate knowledge of Catholicism and a disrespect for me as a person. One guy had the nerve to tell me I was “too smart to believe all this”, which merited him a surprised look and a burst of laughter from me. :yup:That is kinda my own thinking. What doctrines would those be?
Why would you have problems with Christians who believe in “miracles, Virgin birth, resurrection”. They are all found in the Bible and in Sacred Tradition.

What new translations? Granted I have my favorites in the RSV-2CE and the Douay-Rheims Bible, and some I don’t really care for, but I can make almost any of them work.

As always CM, you hit the nail on the head.

 

[JustaServant]

Separation occurs across the spectrum without regard to religious stripe. There are two catholic churches in town one is the Irish church and the other the French church. Growing up they didn’t go to each other’s churches and I always wondered why we always went to the one and not the other. There was disassociation between them even though they were both catholic. No church is immune to this and must take precautions against this type of behavior. I was at the end of that era so it wasn’t a factor for me. I can see the issues now for what they are.

You obviously know very little about the ethnic makeup in American cities.
History lesson.
American cities had a vast influx of immigrants from various countries at the end of the 19th and turn of the 20th century. Immigrants tended to associate with people of their own ethnic or national origin, not because of any racial or ethnic prejudice, but because it comforted people who were in a new country that had people who didn’t always accept them. My own great grandfather attended a parish in Pittsburgh that was design specifically for Irish immigrants. On my mothers side, my grandfather attended a Slovak parish.
They were both Catholic, part of the universal Church. Since the Latin was spoken in the churches, it really made no difference as to the Mass itself.
This was not just a Catholic thing. I knew an immigrant Ukrainian who attended an Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the south side of Pittsburgh, a building that still stands today with magnificent golden domes.
Churches that catered to ethnicities had NOTHING to do with “separation”.:doh2:

 

[jericho777]

And Fundamentalists don’t? C’mon…they readily condemn anyone who doesn’t agree with them, and especially us Catholics.http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/3.gif

As for the fact that anyone who knows the truth of the Catholic faith and then chooses to reject and/or abandon it does so at the peril of their soul is clearly supported by the Word of God. (See Hebrews 6:4)Can’t think of a single faithful Catholic that does that.Bah! So you would condemn faithful who actually do battle by constant and effective prayer while ministering to the poor and marginalized of society? You clearly don’t know a blessed think about religious orders.
Take a look at this article on my blog and skip down to the part that begins with “I’m adding this next part from a dear Franciscan Brother…” Priestly celibacy is unBiblical. NOT!
…and obedience(Note: CAF’s Forum Rules do not allow us to use the short nickname that you did.)

So St. John the Baptist was “not engaging the culture for Christ” by his separation? Don’t tell him that…

I don’t know about everyone else here (just a few really), but all the faithful Catholics that I know are both separated *and *engaged with our godawful culture for Christ.

I don’t know about superiority, but most of the fundamentalist types I have known seemed more into their own comfort zone than anything else. They have generally badmouthed my Catholic faith and sought to proselytize me away from it with polemics and rhetoric that showed a lack of accurate knowledge of Catholicism and a disrespect for me as a person. One guy had the nerve to tell me I was “too smart to believe all this”, which merited him a surprised look and a burst of laughter from me. :yup:That is kinda my own thinking. What doctrines would those be?
Why would you have problems with Christians who believe in “miracles, Virgin birth, resurrection”. They are all found in the Bible and in Sacred Tradition.

What new translations? Granted I have my favorites in the RSV-2CE and the Douay-Rheims Bible, and some I don’t really care for, but I can make almost any of them work.

1 You mistake my statements as directed toward Catholics they were not. They were a generalization for all and that includes fundamentalists too!

2 Again you misunderstand my point it is any who TOTALLY withdraw from society. How can we engage the culture for Christ if we totally disengage ourselves from it? This discussion is not about priestly celibacy.

3 I was not the first to use the term in this discussion it was not meant to be a disparaging remark. It is a lot easier to type than the full version with limited typing skills.

4 I am not a fundamentalist as you define. I do however believe their initial intent in trying to define orthodoxy with its five tenants. There have been a lot of disparaging remarks made about fundamentalists in this thread and yet there are no fundamentalists here.

 

[Contarini]

You obviously know very little about the ethnic makeup in American cities.
History lesson.
American cities had a vast influx of immigrants from various countries at the end of the 19th and turn of the 20th century. Immigrants tended to associate with people of their own ethnic or national origin, not because of any racial or ethnic prejudice, but because it comforted people who were in a new country that had people who didn’t always accept them.

I don’t think that’s true–there was indeed racial and ethnic prejudice among Catholic immigrant groups.

Catholics are quick to denounce the Orthodox for being “divided” by ethnicity.

If people of different ethnicities can’t worship together, there’s a serious flaw in the Catholicity and unity of the Church.

Edwin

 

[jericho777]

You obviously know very little about the ethnic makeup in American cities.
History lesson.
American cities had a vast influx of immigrants from various countries at the end of the 19th and turn of the 20th century. Immigrants tended to associate with people of their own ethnic or national origin, not because of any racial or ethnic prejudice, but because it comforted people who were in a new country that had people who didn’t always accept them. My own great grandfather attended a parish in Pittsburgh that was design specifically for Irish immigrants. On my mothers side, my grandfather attended a Slovak parish.
They were both Catholic, part of the universal Church. Since the Latin was spoken in the churches, it really made no difference as to the Mass itself.
This was not just a Catholic thing. I knew an immigrant Ukrainian who attended an Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the south side of Pittsburgh, a building that still stands today with magnificent golden domes.
Churches that catered to ethnicities had NOTHING to do with “separation”.:doh2:

Does the reason matter? Is it biblical? No it is people looking inward the same things you accuse fundamentalists of. It even happens in Christian churches and needs to stop.

Why then did they not even want to associate with each other? They were both catholic.

 

[jericho777]

Really? On what do you base this assertion?

Let’s say a catholic and protestant get married and have children. What faith will they be raised in? One or the other has to be dominant unless you make up a combined religion that encompasses both.

 

[minkymurph]

Does the reason matter? Is it biblical? No it is people looking inward the same things you accuse fundamentalists of. It even happens in Christian churches and needs to stop.

Why then did they not even want to associate with each other? They were both catholic.

OK, I’m getting a bit confused. :hypno:

Are you arguing for separation, against it, or neither?

 

[jericho777]

OK, I’m getting a bit confused. :hypno:

Are you arguing for separation, against it, or neither?

I am against seperation from the world. We must be in the world not of it. We must engage the culture for the gospels sake. Is this cleaer now?

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Stay on the topic of the thread.

 

[JustaServant]

There have been a lot of disparaging remarks made about fundamentalists in this thread and yet there are no fundamentalists here.

Couple of reasons for that.

1. The doctrine of “separation” demands they not intermix with “unbelievers”.
   Thats gotta be us.
2. I’ve been on this forum for five years, and every fundamentalist who does come here has an agenda: evangelize us poor dumb Catholics with the “true gospel”. Others don’t appear to possess the ability to read the forum rules before posting. The “mission” is important for that!!

As for making disparaging remarks about fundamentalists, that is because this is something Protestants and Catholics can agree on.
In a way, its rather ecumenical.

 

[jericho777]

Couple of reasons for that.

1. The doctrine of “separation” demands they not intermix with “unbelievers”.
   Thats gotta be us.
2. I’ve been on this forum for five years, and every fundamentalist who does come here has an agenda: evangelize us poor dumb Catholics with the “true gospel”. Others don’t appear to possess the ability to read the forum rules before posting. The “mission” is important for that!!

As for making disparaging remarks about fundamentalists, that is because this is something Protestants and Catholics can agree on.
In a way, its rather ecumenical.

How then do you plan on evangelizing them with desparaging remarks?

 

[JustaServant]

How then do you plan on evangelizing them with desparaging remarks?

Who said anything about evangelizing?
The purpose of the thread is mine opinions on WHY people are attracted to fundamentalism.
Now, if you want to play devil’s advocate go ahead.
But stay on the topic as per the mods request.

 

[JustaServant]

Inflexible personality
Fear of failure/hell/living
Low self-esteem
Judgmental thinking
Inexperience
social difficulties

Could you expand on those last two?

 

[CyberAngel]

As for the fact that anyone who knows the truth of the Catholic faith and then chooses to reject and/or abandon it does so at the peril of their soul is clearly supported by the Word of God. (See Hebrews 6:4)
What doctrines would those be?
Why would you have problems with Christians who believe in “miracles, Virgin birth, resurrection”. They are all found in the Bible and in Sacred Tradition.

What new translations? Granted I have my favorites in the RSV-2CE and the Douay-Rheims Bible, and some I don’t really care for, but I can make almost any of them work.

NIV, generally anything with demonic…err…dynamic translation principle

doctrines like…my church is the best and anyone else goes to Hell
I believe that anyone truly believing in Christ as a personal Savior (etc)
will be Saved. This should naturally reflect in behavior.
Think how the Church is divided even today
Maybe everyone is a fundamentalist
People tend to keep the teachings from their own Assembly

 

[CyberAngel]

I was addressing CyberAngel’s post that seemed to suggest the only options are liberal Christianity or fundamentalism, both extremes.

Liberal: a fundamentalist is one who doesn’t accept my new interpretation
Fundamentalist: a liberal is anyone not agreeing to my PERFECT preaching
Conservative: I’m not belonging to either group above