Fundamentalist Pastor fired in Scandal

[Eric_Hilbert]

Here is a good overview of the history of this “Bible College”.

stufffundieslike.com/2012/08/isolated-incidents-completely-unrelated-to-all-the-others-just-like-it/comment-page-1

We need to keep Schaap’s family in prayer, most of all for the teen girl who is the latest victim of HAC.

 

[JustaServant]

Here is a good overview of the history of abuse in this “Bible College”.

stufffundieslike.com/

We need to keep Schaap’s family in prayer, most of all for the teen girl who is the latest victim of HAC.

 

[CopticChristian]

Read more at global.christianpost.com/news/jack-schaap-fired-from-first-baptist-hammond-church-reportedly-for-adultery-79270/#x43osqW62Pj6wBqH.99

Just,

I previously posted, saw the thread disappear and now my post disappeared.

It kind of frightened me because I thought that for sure there was a thread like this. Gone…like a xxxx in the wind…but then I thought maybe the whole thing was just not a good thread…then I see it is pruned…and now I see it again. I do save my posts before posting and I could put it up again…but based on the past experience…I will leave it archived.

So, I guess I have nothing to add. A miserable thing it is.

 

[JustaServant]

Just,

I previously posted, saw the thread disappear and now my post disappeared.

It kind of frightened me because I thought that for sure there was a thread like this. Gone…like a xxxx in the wind…but then I thought maybe the whole thing was just not a good thread…then I see it is pruned…and now I see it again. I do save my posts before posting and I could put it up again…but based on the past experience…I will leave it archived.

So, I guess I have nothing to add. A miserable thing it is.

And how long have experiencing these episodes?

 

[CopticChristian]

And how long have experiencing these episodes?

Just,

Glad you asked. It started July 26, 2011. I wasn’t putting much thought into at the time and of course I had little experience.

I have noticed over time that threads come and go, some get banned, some get graduated and of course the usual reprimand.

I believe that it is part of this reality and as such I have come to learn to accept it.

 

[JustaServant]

Coptic,
In all seriousness the purpose of exposing people to these kinds of tragedies is not for gossip. There exists in our nation a sickness that runs deep into our dark souls. We have no respect for life and have even less regard for those who cannot fight back. Its in Catholic churches, Protestant churches, everywhere. And the pattern is always the same: Blame the victim.
Already the “leaders” of this cult IFB church are calling it an “affair” and “16 is of legal age”. They will go to any lengths to whitewash the man-made god they have created. It happened with Jack Hyles, Joe Combs (who spent time in this part of WV, that story will make you cry). It happened with AV Ballenger, and those are just the nationally known IFB preachers. I knew several myself years ago when I was in fundamentalism years ago that never made the headlines.
The pattern is always the same.
The victims are thrown to the curb and forgotten. Forced to pick up the pieces of their lives. If they speak up about what happened they are shouted down and even threatened.
I knew (by reputation) of a pastor not too far from here (he has since moved away) who defended a certain “hero-preacher” by attacking the victim of child molestation and calling her a prostitute. He is still preaching today.
Are their good Baptist churches? Sure, I know a few within driving distance and they are filled with wonderful people. But there are a few things people should beware of.
When any human being is put in the place that only belongs to God alone, that person is ripe for the most depraved behavior. People in these types of churches should RUN, not walk. away.
Unfortunately it takes these types of tragedies to bring this dysfunctional system into the light.
Pray for the Schaap family. Most of all pray for that victim.
She will need it.

 

[CopticChristian]

Coptic,
In all seriousness the purpose of exposing people to these kinds of tragedies is not for gossip. There exists in our nation a sickness that runs deep into our dark souls. We have no respect for life and have even less regard for those who cannot fight back. Its in Catholic churches, Protestant churches, everywhere. And the pattern is always the same: Blame the victim.
Already the “leaders” of this cult IFB church are calling it an “affair” and “16 is of legal age”. They will go to any lengths to whitewash the man-made god they have created. It happened with Jack Hyles, Joe Combs (who spent time in this part of WV, that story will make you cry). It happened with AV Ballenger, and those are just the nationally known IFB preachers. I knew several myself years ago when I was in fundamentalism years ago that never made the headlines.
The pattern is always the same.
The victims are thrown to the curb and forgotten. Forced to pick up the pieces of their lives. If they speak up about what happened they are shouted down and even threatened.
I knew (by reputation) of a pastor not too far from here (he has since moved away) who defended a certain “hero-preacher” by attacking the victim of child molestation and calling her a prostitute. He is still preaching today.
Are their good Baptist churches? Sure, I know a few within driving distance and they are filled with wonderful people. But there are a few things people should beware of.
When any human being is put in the place that only belongs to God alone, that person is ripe for the most depraved behavior. People in these types of churches should RUN, not walk. away.
Unfortunately it takes these types of tragedies to bring this dysfunctional system into the light.
Pray for the Schaap family. Most of all pray for that victim.
She will need it.

Just,

I understand. It is the spin. Reframe it so you can sell it. I understand. What you describe is an imbalance of power in a relationship that happens universally and not just in Churches…it is part of the dilema of humanity when someone in power uses that power disadvantageously. People suffer.

The dysfunction is not just the system it is people. Dysfunctional people exist everywhere and when people understand dysfunction they will hold their hands up and say no.

 

[Elizium23]

I had to look it up too - a homosexual attraction to adolescent males

It can be defined that way, but the meaning is typically broader.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia

 

[cmforte]

Unless it is the Catholics involved with pedophilia it goes largely ignored by the media in general.

There was a youth minister at the huge “church of Christ” in a nearby city, he and a 13 year old girl ran away to Los Vegas. They were caught and returned to home, the minister was fired and that was the end of it.

But what would have happened if it had been a priest instead of a Campbellite preacher. I it would have been front page news everywhere.

The point is the pastor was fired. How many priests were “fired” as compared to the ones who were simply transferred and allowed to continue to act as a priest because it leaves an “indelible mark on the soul,”?? lol. (I guess in some, it really doesn’t!!)

It wasn’t that some priests had sinned that got the attention of the press and public, it was how the Church hierarchy handled it that did. BIG DIFFERENCE.

-Chris

 

[JustaServant]

Just,

I understand. It is the spin. Reframe it so you can sell it. I understand. What you describe is an imbalance of power in a relationship that happens universally and not just in Churches…it is part of the dilema of humanity when someone in power uses that power disadvantageously. People suffer.

The dysfunction is not just the system it is people. Dysfunctional people exist everywhere and when people understand dysfunction they will hold their hands up and say no.

The problem is the whole structure of what these fundamentalist churches are based on.
The centerpiece of worship is a pulpit for a man.
And if that man is immature emotionally, its inevitable that these things occur. They are almost set up for a fall because of the man-worship.
Does the Catholic Church have scandals in this sex-soaked society? Yes.
But the priest is not the center of worship in the Catholic Church. When the priest approaches the altar, the Tabernacle is there with the Eucharist.** Jesus is the center of worship, The priest is an instrument**. If he falls into sin it does not negate the Eucahistic Sacrifice.
But in fundamentalism, the pulpit is in the center of the church. Oh yes, they will say 'its God we worship and is taught from the Bible. But that teaching is being filtered through the private interpretation of a MAN. To even suggest that Communion is the center of worship turns fundamentalists into a tailspin.
Yet it is the ONE worship COMMAND Jesus gave to His Church, not preaching. A good homily or sermon is important, but that is not the centerpiece of worship.
When a pulpit is the center, for a man who gives his ‘interpretation’ of the Bible, its inevitable he is puffed up with pride. He is a little messiah with followers, and he begins to believe he is invincible. Once that pulpit is worshipped, a preacher naturally can reason his way into anything.
We can look at these fallen fundamentalist preachers, whose vanity, imbecility, or perverted sexual appetites have destroyed the innocent in only one way: As a clear witness to never. NEVER put a man into a place that belongs to Christ alone.

 

[pnewton]

That is because of the recent history of the offender not being fired but being transferred into another job.

The point is the pastor was fired. How many priests were “fired” as compared to the ones who were simply transferred and allowed to continue to act as a priest because it leaves an “indelible mark on the soul,”?? lol.

The difference is that the Catholic Church is one. There is nothing to prevent another Church from hiring this same man. That is the way protestant pastors operator. There is no common database, or any reason to check if there was, so there is nothing to prevent this man from being hired elsewhere, or working to build an independent church, for that matter.

 

[JustaServant]

The point is the pastor was fired. How many priests were “fired” as compared to the ones who were simply transferred and allowed to continue to act as a priest because it leaves an “indelible mark on the soul,”?? lol. (I guess in some, it really doesn’t!!)

It wasn’t that some priests had sinned that got the attention of the press and public, it was how the Church hierarchy handled it that did. BIG DIFFERENCE.

-Chris

I got news for you. HAC has covered up abuse for years. As for the “firing”, they didn’t have much of a choice. I don’t buy the “we found the cellphone on the pulpit” story. They were already planning to give him a “medical leave” before this.
A few years ago an IFB church in Texas attempted to spirit thier “hero preacher” out of the country to do “missionary work”. but were intercepted by the police before he could.
No one is justifying how certain Catholic clergy handle things, but don’t think they are the only ones who try to cover what the sun don’t shine.

 

[cmforte]

The difference is that the Catholic Church is one. There is nothing to prevent another Church from hiring this same man. That is the way protestant pastors operator. There is no common database, or any reason to check if there was, so there is nothing to prevent this man from being hired elsewhere, or working to build an independent church, for that matter.

And where was the Catholic “common database” when pedophile priests were being transferrred? Why didn’t a Bishop in a dioces that the priest was being transferred to refuse him?

-Chris

 

[JustaServant]

The difference is that the Catholic Church is one. There is nothing to prevent another Church from hiring this same man. That is the way protestant pastors operator. There is no common database, or any reason to check if there was, so there is nothing to prevent this man from being hired elsewhere, or working to build an independent church, for that matter.

You’re right.
If Schaap manages not to go to jail, I can guarentee in a few years he will be in another pulpit preaching. That’s the nature of these 'independent" churches. In mainline Protestant churches they would have more difficulty because the structure is different.

 

[cmforte]

I got news for you. HAC has covered up abuse for years. As for the “firing”, they didn’t have much of a choice. I don’t buy the “we found the cellphone on the pulpit” story. They were already planning to give him a “medical leave” before this.
A few years ago an IFB church in Texas attempted to spirit thier “hero preacher” out of the country to do “missionary work”. but were intercepted by the police before he could.
No one is justifying how certain Catholic clergy handle things, but don’t think they are the only ones who try to cover what the sun don’t shine.

This is true. Even our Orthodox brethren had their share of clergy sex scandals (largely unreported by the American press). I know it is not unique to Catholicism, but as a Catholic, I am more concerned about how my church handles such things.

-Chris

 

[JillianRose]

Unless it is the Catholics involved with pedophilia it goes largely ignored by the media in general.

There was a youth minister at the huge “church of Christ” in a nearby city, he and a 13 year old girl ran away to Los Vegas. They were caught and returned to home, the minister was fired and that was the end of it.

But what would have happened if it had been a priest instead of a Campbellite preacher. I it would have been front page news everywhere.

Its all over everyday in the northwest Indiana paper.

 

[pnewton]

And where was the Catholic “common database” when pedophile priests were being transferrred? Why didn’t a Bishop in a dioces that the priest was being transferred to refuse him?

-Chris

Is this rhetoric? Are you aware of how recent of an innovation computer networking is, or you unaware that this practice has not been allowable for years? Whether we use the past tense or present tense matters in an issue that the Catholic Church has addressed so thoroughly.

 

[cmforte]

You’re right.
If Schaap manages not to go to jail, I can guarentee in a few years he will be in another pulpit preaching. That’s the nature of these 'independent" churches. In mainline Protestant churches they would have more difficulty because the structure is different.

In Catholicism, a priest is forced upon the laity by a Bishop with little or no (name removed by moderator)ut from them. Say the parishioners at St. so-and-so Archdiocese knew that an incoming priest was a convicted pedophile and so they told the Bishop they didn’t want him? The Bishop doesn’t have to listen to them, and, historically, doesn’t.

In “independent” churches, when that happens, the “parishioners” usually just up and go to another church, with no feeling of losing salvation, guilt or disenfranchisement. You can’t in Catholicism.

-Chris

 

[cmforte]

Is this rhetoric? Are you aware of how recent of an innovation computer networking is, or you unaware that this practice has not been allowable for years? Whether we use the past tense or present tense matters in an issue that the Catholic Church has addressed so thoroughly.

This sounds like rhetoric. There are many other ways to alert another parish or dioces that a possible incoming priest was involved in a sex scandal than just through “computer networking”. We had ways to communicate before computers!! Was there no life before the internet? lol

-Chris

 

[Newsy]

In Catholicism, a priest is forced upon the laity by a Bishop with little or no (name removed by moderator)ut from them. Say the parishioners at St. so-and-so Archdiocese knew that an incoming priest was a convicted pedophile and so they told the Bishop they didn’t want him? The Bishop doesn’t have to listen to them, and, historically, doesn’t.

In “independent” churches, when that happens, the “parishioners” usually just up and go to another church, with no feeling of losing salvation, guilt or disenfranchisement. You can’t in Catholicism.

-Chris

You can go to another parish, without losing your salvation or the Eucharist. I’m just saying…