Fundamentalist's belief that wine drinking was wrong.

[deb1]

stillsmallvoice:

Anyone care to join me in a glass of (kosher, of course) egg-nog? (What do you put in egg-nog? Brandy? Rum?)

Be well & a Merry Christmas to all!

ssv

I don’t normally drink egg nog but I would gladly join you in drink.

 

[Archbishop]

If wine is sinful, then why would God allow it to be used in his holy, ceremonial sacrifices? Why would Paul tell Timothy to use a little wine for his stomach problems? In speaking of the many blessings that God gives to man, why does the Psalmist say of God, “You allow them to produce food from the earth – wine to make them glad” (Psalm 104:14-15). If wine is sinful, why does the Lord Jesus use it as an element in the Eucharist? The argument is often made that the wine of the New Testament was diluted with water. Thus, it was okay for the Lord to use it. Friend, sin is sin. If wine is sinful, it is sinful whether it is mixed with water or not. If alcohol is sinful, then it is sinful even when used in medicine or as medicine.

Wine itself is amoral. The same is true for meat or the keeping of certain days to the Lord. St. Paul addresses this very issue of Christian liberty in Romans 14. There is no sin in wine. Sin is in the heart of man. Man can pervert the best things that God can offer us.

As for Christ not wanting to give a bad impression and therefore not drinking wine, one of the main accusations against Jesus was that he “ate with sinners.” Jesus was accused of being a “winebibber.” Why would this accusation be made unless there was some appearance of such.

The kingdom of God is not concerned with matters of eating and drinking, but rather, with righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whether or not we eat or drink a certain thing such as wine does not determine our status in the kingdom of heaven. Eating or drinking does not make us a sinner. If anyone believes so you have missed the whole point about what makes a person a member of the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ.

However, our actions are to be geared towards promoting unity and edification within the body, not divisions and strife. The work of God is not to be destroyed just so we can eat, drink, wear, or enjoy whatever we want. It is far better to abstain from using an amoral thing than to cause a brother or sister to lapse into sin and fall spiritually.

If there is any doubt as to whether or not it is lawful to do something, DON’T DO IT. This is not situational ethics; it is a matter of having a clear conscience before God. If you are condemned in your heart about a matter, then you cannot fully glorify God and give thanks to him by doing it. If you do not have a clear conscience about drinking wine, DON’T. But if you can have a clear conscience before God and can do so with thanksgiving, then you are free to do it.

We do not need a comprehensive listing of what to do and what not to do set down for us in Holy Scripture. What we need is a deeper understanding of the Scriptures and the inward grace of the Holy Spirit to apply God’s Word to our daily lives. It is much easier I suppose if we have a list of man’s rules to follow. But that is not God’s way under the New Covenant. God’s way is to give us the basic principles in Scripture, the gift of the Holy Spirit and the wisdom of the Church.

Abp +Mark

 

[Malachi4U]

PS. I was Protestant for 26 years and most of that time in Fundementalist Baptist sects spanning 3 states.

About 1/2 the preachers I had did not drink. But they also said the Bible doesn’t prohibit drinking either. They just didn’t drink as a choice and encouraged others not to drink as a choice. A Baptist choice I might add.

For hundreds of years before we had a Bible did Christians drink? Did they teach drinking or not?

Without using the Bible, who in history and what was the date of the first documented source as prhibiting drinking? Do you know the history of how the anti-drinking got started in the 1800’s? Did you know the early Baptists used wine not grape juice?

You my be any kind of Fundy but I use the Baptists just to make a point since I went to their show for years.

I hope you do some research and answer some questions instead of just preaching. Dates, names and sources when you respond - or should I say if you can respond? The truth may surprise you. To study history is to become Catholic.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Samuele Bacchiocchi is hardly an objective scholar.

Each of the anti-drinking proof texts forbid getting drunk. These texts do not forbid drinking wine.

Drinking With Calvin and Luther!: A History of Alcohol in the Church (Paperback) by Jim West

In 1529, Michael Sattler and others put forth the Schleitheim Confession. Its main points were:

Baptism was to be administered to believers only. Infant baptism, “the greatest and first abomination of the pope,” is not to be practiced.
The “ban” should be observed by local churches against those who fall into sin, after a first and second private warning.
The bread and wine should only be broken with baptized believers, and no others.
True Christians should be separated from the world system, including its “church attendance”, oaths, the sword, etc.
There should be shepherds among the flock, who will preach, etc., and will be supported by the church. If a pastor is taken from the flock, another should be ordained in his place.
The “sword,” i.e. the magistracy or rulership, is outside of Christ’s perfection and is to be left to the world to exercise. Christians should not exercise self-defense nor become magistrates, nor use the secular sword against spiritual offenses.
Christians should not make an oath, but let their yes be yes and their no be no.

ritchies.net/p4wk4.htm

History of Alcohol Prohibition
druglibrary.org/schaffer/LIBRARY/studies/nc/nc2a.htm
college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/rcah/html/ah_071600_prohibitiona.htm

The Temperance Movement
cyberessays.com/History/166.htm
google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=history+Temperance+movement+baptist

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

So do you eat bread? Baked goods?

“leaven of the Pharisees”

after all over eating is a sin too.

 

[imroc]

stillsmallvoice:

Hi all!

I’ll chime in with my Jewish $0.02 if I may.

I know that some fundamentalist Protestants have a big hang-up about alcohol and that some claim that Jesus never touched a drop of wine. If we allow that Jesus was born a Jew & lived as one (for at least part of his life, I suppose), this is impossible. The consumption of wine was part of Jewish practice then, just like it is now.

I suppose that anyone could make (unfermented) grape juice back then simply by squeezing/stomping grapes. I don’t know about preserving the unfermented) grape juice for any length of time simply because the only ways to preserve foodstuffs way back then was by pickling, salting or drying (which would make the grape juice rather yucky!).

Wine libations were an integral part of the Temple service, in the order of offerings (see Numbers 28 and 29). The Hebrew word for “its drink offering” is nisko & refers to wine, *not *grape juice. The specific reference to wine per se in Numbers 28:14 is held to be illustrative example that holds for all of the various holyday offerings enumerated in Numbers 28-29. Anyone who claims that w-i-n-e was not used in the Temple is saying the scriptural/historical equivalent of 2+2=5.

The blessing “Praised are You, Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has created the fruit of the vine” is said before drinking wine and grape juice (but not over grapes or raisins; apples and apple juice/oranges and orange juice, etc. also take different blessings).

On the Nazirite’s having to abstain from wine (see Numbers 6:1-21), several of our Sages comment on the fact that at the conclusion of his vow, he had to bring (inter alia) a sin-offering. I believe that it is our very great medieval Sage, Nahmanides (ou.org/about/judaism/rabbis/ramban.htm), who says that the Nazirite had to bring a sin-offering because he had taken upon himself a vow (which Judaism frowns upon unless absolutely necessary) that entailed having to deny himself some of the good things which God has permitted us.

I think that my Roman Catholic cyberfriends would agree with us that wine, when properly used, can be a vehicle for holiness. When improperly used, it can be a vehicle for vile unholiness. Wine is, in effect, a kind of tool. It is neither evil nor good; only the use to which it is put and the ends to which it is used can be good or evil. (Even Milton refers to “misused wine.”) The scriptures endorses neither teetotalism nor habitual drunkeness.

I read where the famous Protestant evangelist Billy Sunday, upon hearing that Prohibition had become law, said that, “The rein of tears is over…The slums will soon be only a memory. We will turn our prisons into factories and our jails into storehouses and comcribs” What a fool! The only people happier than him at that moment were all the gangsters & criminals. Organized crime in the USA made it to the big leagues thanks to Prohibition.

Anyone care to join me in a glass of (kosher, of course) egg-nog? (What do you put in egg-nog? Brandy? Rum?)

Be well & a Merry Christmas to all!

ssv

This is precisely my point! Taking it “from the horses mouth” directly is the key. No pun or disrespect intended, stillsmallvoice. And thank you for the very sound hard evidence! Malachi, you take the word of 19th century and newer beliefs as doctrine, even though your fundamentalist friends claim there is to be no authority of the church. You need to look past the neo-Christian views and get at the source and heart of Christianity, which IS catholicism. Who was it that said the water is purer nearest the fountain? Patrick Madrid, I believe…correct me if I’m wrong. You cannot go wrong with comparing Jewish rituals, “sacramentals” (I use the word loosely because of my limited vocabulary), practices, etc. Like I said, Jesus didn’t come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. He didn’t tell the apostles to go out and forget about how they worship and such. If He came to abolish customs, laws and traditions, why would he end his life according to the customs of The Passover? Christianity is MUCH deeper than going around quoting a few loose verses and “soul winning”. It’s roots go much much deeper than Martin Luther’s (speaking of a drunkard ) belief system…

I have to defend Martin Luther on this one. Like the good German he was, Luther drank beer. Most Protestants do not see alcohol drinking as a sin, it is only the extreme fundamentalists that believe it is a against the bible.

• Deb1

Sorry, I wasn’t implying that Luther banned alcohol. Isn’t there a recorded account of him accidentally spilling some wine during Communion and getting on all fours to lick it up?

 

[rayne89]

malachi_a_serva:

I cut and pasted in response to the question why I do not believe Jesus drank wine. I never said they were my words and I posted his name in my original thread. Please look.

I find your attacks encouraging. I am not lecturing anyone on sin. I posed a question that is all…with a position paper to back it up.

I have been quite puzzled at the sarcasm on various posts, the ridicule. I don’t take any of it as a joke. Jesus Christ came and suffered…and died for the remission of my sins. I find nothing humourous about that nor about being an obeidient Christian. When we stand before our Father in his Holyness, Justness, and righteousness, I ponder if their will be humour and sarcasm when we give an account for every idle word.

I left Catholicism because the Holy Spirit moved me not to pray to Mary, not to have any other GODS before him. That is why I left Catholism. I do not expect to convert you. The Holy Spirt will if it is the Lords Will. If the Father leads you to the son.

Since I signed on here I wondered,…wouldn’t time be better spent in prayer? Or better spread the Good News?

I think so. Nonetheless, perhaps some don’t.

I apologized if I misjudged you but there was nothing in that particular post to indicate author ship other than your own and I don’t read evey thread posted on the forum.

I have had this same discussion over and over on the forum and in my own life so forgive me if I’m not as patient as I should be. I had a similar discussion with a baptist friend who says Jesus didn’t really drink wine like it is today, it was mostly water with a little wine to “disinfect” the water. My husband is a (recovered) alcoholic so if anyone should have an agenda against wine it should be me. The truth is Jewish people drank wine at weddings not grape juice. They drank wine then and they drink wine now. My parents drink wine with dinner, I have a glass every once in a while at a friends house. Jesus said not to be drunkards, he also said not to be gluttons - you can drink too much wine, you can eat too much food, the point is moderation.

As far as praying to Mary, this is another discussion I’ve had over and over so again forgive my lack of patience. I ask Mary to pray for me. We don’t pray to Mary in the same way we pray to God. The term “pray to Mary” is left over from a time period when prayer and worship had more then one meaning. In England they still refer to judges as “your worship” instead of “your honor”. The Hail Mary prayer says “pray fo us sinners”. We ask Mary to pray for us. Clearly if I didn’t realize you are were ignorant of the Catholic teachings I would very insulted that you would assume that us Catholics are too stupid to know the difference between Mary and God. And that we would put Mary at the same level as the almighty God.

How is that the Holy Spirit lead you out of the church, and lead my husband into it? How is that the Holy Spirit has convicted my heart beyond doubt that the Catholic church is the church founded by Jesus Christ and that to leave it would be a slap in the face to God? The Holy Spirit was sent to us to lead us in all truth. There can not be more then one truth, so which is it? How do you know whether it’s your own will or the will of the Holy Spirit?

As far as sarcasm and such. You have to realize all though as christians we should be infinitely patient, as less then perfect human beings unfortunately we’re not. These same discussions have come about over and over in our lives. Many come here stated all kinds of untruths about the church as if they think it’s the first time we’ve heard it. After a while you get a little cynical that so many people take the word of what we believe from someone else outside the church (or a disguntled ex-Catholic)rather then pick up the Catechism and just read it. I have heard “Christian” radio state straight out lies about what Catholics believe, I have had many non-Catholic christians make all kinds of crazy accusations. After a while it just gets old. So while this discussion may be new to you for many of us it’s gotten very old. So again I apologize.

 

[imroc]

imroc:

This is precisely my point! Taking it “from the horses mouth” directly is the key. No pun or disrespect intended, stillsmallvoice. And thank you for the very sound hard evidence! Malachi, you take the word of 19th century and newer beliefs as doctrine, even though your fundamentalist friends claim there is to be no authority of the church. You need to look past the neo-Christian views and get at the source and heart of Christianity, which IS catholicism. Who was it that said the water is purer nearest the fountain? Patrick Madrid, I believe…correct me if I’m wrong. You cannot go wrong with comparing Jewish rituals, “sacramentals” (I use the word loosely because of my limited vocabulary), practices, etc. Like I said, Jesus didn’t come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. He didn’t tell the apostles to go out and forget about how they worship and such. If He came to abolish customs, laws and traditions, why would he end his life according to the customs of The Passover? Christianity is MUCH deeper than going around quoting a few loose verses and “soul winning”. It’s roots go much much deeper than Martin Luther’s (speaking of a drunkard ) belief system…

• Deb1

Sorry, I wasn’t implying that Luther banned alcohol. Isn’t there a recorded account of him accidentally spilling some wine during Communion and getting on all fours to lick it up?

Ahhh…

Here is a reference to it in another discussion

camassia.notfrisco2.com/archives/003523.html

You’ve done a fine job parsing the AC. It was presented before the Holy Roman Emperor with the hope a avoiding schism, but the response of the Roman church, designated the Confutation, all but ended that. Melanchthon responded with the Apology for the Confession which elaborates on the AC and answers the points made by the Confutation.
I’m a Lutheran who has come to recognize the dangers of sola scriptura. Faced with papal authority, I can understand why the Lutherans would want to claim the Bible as irrefutable evidence that God was on their side even though the pope condemned them. They could not have seen the dangers of “scripture alone” combined with “inerrancy” would bring.
My understanding, and it comes from a Lutheran perspective, is that the cup is not given to laity because of the danger of spillage. At base, it is because of the reverence held for the very blood of Christ that I confess as a Lutheran. Luther’s response was that neither the body nor the blood of Christ in communion were there to be adored but to be eaten and drunk as Christ commanded. We do our human best to prevent accidents, but fear of them should not prevent us receiving them as Christ intended. There is, of course, the story about the cup being dropped once either by Luther or just in his presence. Legend has it that he got down on hands and knees and licked up every drop from the stone floor. I haven’t seen the Luther movie yet so I don’t know if that story makes it in.
Posted by: Allen Brill on October 27, 2003 01:01 PM

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

is this the closed one?

 

[imroc]

guess not!

 

[Melanie01]

At one place the serious response was orange juice was used. I was strongly tempted to be facetious about a brand name here but I restrained myself

 

[Alfie]

deb1:

Simply because wine makes us relax does not mean that it is a sin. Why would this be wrong.

While sitting in the doctor’s office waiting for my hubby, I read an interesting article. A few years back red wine was heralded as being good for the heart. People claimed that grape juice could give you the same benifits so the researchers began to study the effects of alcohol drinking. Guess what they found? Any moderate alcohol drinking-two drinks a day for a grown man-produces health benifits. They discovered that Germans drinking beer, Japenese drinking saki and French drinking wine all have the same health benifits!!

Oh, by the way. Welcome. I am glad that you chose to post.

Give me ten good reasons why alcohol should be legal? What good is alcohol? It is a drug and it alters a persons mind. Any chemical that alters the mind will allow a person to be more open towards sin. What good does alcohol do for society? If there was no alcohol the rates for child and wife abuse, divorce, crime, suicide, murder, rape, etc. would go down considerably.There are too many passages that condemn drunkenness. When you have that many passages about a certain act then it is safe to say that God would not approve of a mind-altering drug called alcohol. Drinking alcohol is a carnal act. I find that praying is a great way to relax myself. Better yet, when I praise God I become even more peaceful.

They say that some people are alcoholics because it is a disease ( I personally believe that is an excuse). Well if that is so, why would Jesus drink wine when so many people are susceptible to alcoholism?

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi Alfie, NO ONE IS ENDORSING DRUNKENESS, so stop the nonsense. As I understand the thread.

Did Jesus drink wine? Yes, all Jewish people of that time did.

Did the disciples drink wine at passover? Passover is six months after the fall grape harvest, and the four cups of passover are wine. These are historical facts.

Did Jesus make wine? Yes, John 2 is clear that he did.

Is is permissivible for christians to drink wine? Rom 14 for the strong in faith it is no problem, for the weak they need to advoid it.

When did the prohibition on “booze” occur? I gave historical proof that wine was used during the Lord’s Table in baptist circles around 1500 from a creed above, and gave links to “prohibition” and temperance movements in the US above to show where the change in baptist churches occurred.

My caps above are not shouting, they are emphesis.

Concerning the four cups, I posted above or in other thread too about that.

Four Cups of Wine at the Passover Seder

Question

At what historical point can it be identified that the four cups of wine were a part of the Passover meal?

Answer

The four cups are from Mishna Pesachim 10:1. It is a rabbinical decree , based on the four expressions of redemption in Exodus 6:6-7 - (source: Talmud Yerushalmi 10:1).

Apparently, it was instituted in the time of the Great Assembly (“Anshei Knesset HaGedolah”), whose period extended from Ezra to the beginning of the Tannaic era.

With blessings from Jerusalem,

Rabbi Shraga Simmons

judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_passover_4cups.htm

google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=four+cups+passover

 

[IanS]

Alfie:

Give me ten good reasons why alcohol should be legal? What good is alcohol? It is a drug and it alters a persons mind. Any chemical that alters the mind will allow a person to be more open towards sin. What good does alcohol do for society? If there was no alcohol the rates for child and wife abuse, divorce, crime, suicide, murder, rape, etc. would go down considerably.There are too many passages that condemn drunkenness. When you have that many passages about a certain act then it is safe to say that God would not approve of a mind-altering drug called alcohol. Drinking alcohol is a carnal act. I find that praying is a great way to relax myself. Better yet, when I praise God I become even more peaceful.

They say that some people are alcoholics because it is a disease ( I personally believe that is an excuse). Well if that is so, why would Jesus drink wine when so many people are susceptible to alcoholism?

Give me ten good reasons why the whole world should be put in chains for the problems of the few! Alcoholics are alcoholics not because they have a problem with alcohol, it’s because they have a problem with everyone and everything around them. That’s why it’s called a disease. It’s a personality disorder and the excess drinking is a symptom. Jesus came to save the alcoholics because they are truly sick and in need healing, and not just because they allowed the fruit of the vine to pass their lips.

Let me ask you this, did child and wife abuse, divorce, crime, suicide, murder, rape, etc. come to a total halt during prohibition? No. In fact, many crime rates rose because of all the bootlegging.

Based on your mentality:

Why not make buying a lottery ticket a sin because a small few spend too much on it?

Why not make owning any kind of weapon to defend yourself a sin because a small few use them unjustly?

Why not make all fast food a sin because there are a few overweight people who eat a McDonald’s?

Why not make all dancing a sin because a few use it to arouse each other?

Why not make all humor and laughing a sin because a few use it in a distasteful way?

Alfie, if you have made a personal decision to not let alcohol pass your lips as a sacrifice for the sake of the kingdom, great! Even if it is an expected discipline of your faith for the sake of the kingdom, so be it. But please don’t point your finger at me and scream, “sinner!” because I have a beer with my pizza. And please don’t try to convince me it’s biblical when it is so clearly not. See post #10

You speak of ridding the world of alcohol. Well my friend, as long as there is some kind fruit or grain in this world, there will be alcohol, even naturally.

Isn’t there enough sin in the world already without having to invent new ones?

 

[Ignatius]

deb1:

Hello,

On another thread a person posted a very long post on why alcohol is wrong and why Jesus didn’t drink it. I am hoping that he/she will continue the discussion here. His/her post was three of these boxes that we write in long so I am paraphrasing one of his/her reasons that alcohol drinking is wrong.

He/she states that creating wine requires human intervention. I contend that this is wrong because fruit fallen from a tree can, by itself, produce alcohol.

Making Kosher wine, Jesus and the Apostles would have only drank Kosher wine, is made the same today as it was in Jesus’ time. The method is well know. And, yes, Kosher wine requires human intervention, but so what. It is made according to the methods God gave in Deuteronomy, how can it be wrong.

 

[manualman]

The arguments presented here against ANY drinking of alcohol are kind of amusing when you draw them out to their conclusion. Sadly, many in history HAVE drawn this argument out to it conclusion. Give me a second.

You can find a LOT more passages in scripture that warn against the dangers of lust, fornication, adultery and other perversions of sex. To conclude that similar passages about alcohol are intended to tell us that alcohol is inherently evil is similar to concluding that sex is, of itself dirty and bad. Thankfully, that’s not the catholic position. I doubt it is the position of any (long lived) protestant group either!

Nearly everything that God gave us that is good can be abused, used inappropriately or to excess.

Thank you God that you didn’t leave us here alone to figure all this out all by ourselves!

 

[George_Waters]

manualman:

The arguments presented here against ANY drinking of alcohol are kind of amusing when you draw them out to their conclusion. Sadly, many in history HAVE drawn this argument out to it conclusion. Give me a second.

You can find a LOT more passages in scripture that warn against the dangers of lust, fornication, adultery and other perversions of sex. To conclude that similar passages about alcohol are intended to tell us that alcohol is inherently evil is similar to concluding that sex is, of itself dirty and bad. Thankfully, that’s not the catholic position. I doubt it is the position of any (long lived) protestant group either!

Nearly everything that God gave us that is good can be abused, used inappropriately or to excess.

Thank you God that you didn’t leave us here alone to figure all this out all by ourselves!

Good point manuelman! God gave us free will and some exercise that will to reject God. Does that make free will a sin?

It seems many people get so focused on what they precieve may be a sin that they forget that what God really wants us to do most is to love Him and to love one another.

Peace & Merry Christmas,

George

 

[jim1130]

imroc:

You attempt to sum up a the WHOLE book of Acts of the Apostles in one snippet and fall very short. I don’t want to get into a match of who can spit out the most verses, but for the sake to prove that the context is what matters and not the one single line of scripture that your fundamentalist friends have told you to reference. Since you’re in Acts:

Acts 2:37-38 - A little more than believing here…
Acts 15:11 - Saved by GRACE…
Acts 22:16 - You’ll need a little baptism here…

Who are you going to confess to? See:

John 20:23 - you’ll see the authority given to the apostles (Church)
2 Cor 5:17 and through - Reconcilliation is something you don’t get to see much in your fundamentalist church
James 5:13 - presbyters forgiving sins?
Matthew 18:18 - Wow! Look at what Jesus has done for his Church.

But! St. Paul and St. Luke (Thanks for giving them their honorable titles of St!) didn’t just write one-liners for Romans to go out and evangelize with!

I will for sure. Your “lack of the eucharist” is alot more deadlier than you think, brother. I encourage you to research the word, “Eucharist” and come back and tell me if you consider your lacking a non-issue. It’s a very serious statement you have made.

Like I said, research the word, “Eucharist” than put the whole “Lord’s Supper” together and tell me if I still trust outside of the sacrifice of our Lord. You have much to learn on the Eucharist, I can see that already. I’ll give you a little reference to the Jewish Passover so you’ll better understand the whole event and the sacrifice made. (Hint: it’s all one in the same).

jewfaq.org/holidaya.htm

Now look at your NT scripture and read about the events during the passover and look how Jesus covers each custom/law. You’ll also note that Jews do NOT drink grape juice invented by Mr. Welch. Take deep notice in the Lamb of sacrifice and the Cups of wine. How many? When? How? It’s really quite exhilirating!

Remember, as you quoted earlier, Jesus did not come to change the law. But also remember, in the same statments, He came to fulfill the LAW!

Enjoy and good reading to you!

---

Thank you for what you wrote!

 

[rayne89]

IanS:

Give me ten good reasons why the whole world should be put in chains for the problems of the few! Alcoholics are alcoholics not because they have a problem with alcohol, it’s because they have a problem with everyone and everything around them. That’s why it’s called a disease. It’s a personality disorder and the excess drinking is a symptom. Jesus came to save the alcoholics because they are truly sick and in need healing, and not just because they allowed the fruit of the vine to pass their lips.

A personality disorder? They have a problem with everyone and everything around them? Excuse me? My husband is a recovered alcoholic and there’s nothing wrong with his personality now or at any other time in our relationship whether he was drinking or not. He did not have a problem with everyone and everything around him, he had a problem with alcohol. I’ve been with my husband for close to 17 years since our highschool days. He has been sober for about 7 years so I’ve seen both sides. I’m sorry this is not going to be charitable but your comment is the biggest load of bs I have ever read about alcoholism.

I drink wine on occasion and see no reason to make an across the board prohibition because it causes addiction in some people. But I take extreme exception to insulting comment about those who suffer from alcoholism. I’m going to stop now before I say something that really gets me in trouble.

 

[IanS]

rayne89:

A personality disorder? They have a problem with everyone and everything around them? Excuse me? My husband is a recovered alcoholic and there’s nothing wrong with his personality now or at any other time in our relationship whether he was drinking or not. He did not have a problem with everyone and everything around him, he had a problem with alcohol. I’ve been with my husband for close to 17 years since our highschool days. He has been sober for about 7 years so I’ve seen both sides. I’m sorry this is not going to be charitable but your comment is the biggest load of bs I have ever read about alcoholism.

I drink wine on occasion and see no reason to make an across the board prohibition because it causes addiction in some people. But I take extreme exception to insulting comment about those who suffer from alcoholism. I’m going to stop now before I say something that really gets me in trouble.

I apologize if what I said was offensive to you. That was not at all my intent. However, I also have several alcoholics close to me and my wife as a young girl witnessed seven divorces between her parents and step parents due to alcohol. What I have witnessed is what I said above.