Fundraiser at what expense? Really, a rodeo?

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Since I posted the OP my point was that rodeo seemed inconsistent with Catholic teaching - therefore I can not see how a Catholic Church or school could have this as a fundraiser…

Naturally in the secular world things go on, and pass for entertainment, that are not consistent with our Church teaching

I for one don’t like to watch sports with a high propensity for people to get hurt - but people do make individual choices to participate - that is up to them. Our role in creation give us a responsibility toward animals that calls us to not cause needless pain or death… big difference.
Well I for one see nothing wrong in a rodeo fundraiser fo the Church. We sell alchol at the Church for fund raisers and people do drink too much and might have an accident, and people are more important than animals. I have see some pretty drunk people at Church socials.
 
Well I for one see nothing wrong in a rodeo fundraiser fo the Church. We sell alchol at the Church for fund raisers and people do drink too much and might have an accident, and people are more important than animals. I have see some pretty drunk people at Church socials.
I see nothing wrong with selling beer / wine at Church fundraisers - HOWEVER - if someone drinks too much and no one takes their keys or offers to drive them home -
seriously irresponsible, immoral - and I believe illegal!
 
I see nothing wrong with selling beer / wine at Church fundraisers - HOWEVER - if someone drinks too much and no one takes their keys or offers to drive them home -
seriously irresponsible, immoral - and I believe illegal!
Yes it is all of those things. But I have never seen it happen.:rolleyes: I would rather see a rodeo than a drunk driver and the heartache it can cause. I am not against alchol as a fund raiser either, My point is that people are more important than animals :thumbsup:or fish.
 
Yes it is all of those things. But I have never seen it happen.:rolleyes: I would rather see a rodeo than a drunk driver and the heartache it can cause. I am not against alchol as a fund raiser either, My point is that people are more important than animals :thumbsup:or fish.
Oh yikes - we agree that it is there is no problem with selling beer / wine to raise money for a church event

We agree that it would be irresponsible for said Church to allow drunk drivers to go away behind the wheel

The point is however ----- rodeos cause suffering to animals - therefore how can a Church justify this as a fundraiser?
 
Well I for one see nothing wrong in a rodeo fundraiser fo the Church. We sell alchol at the Church for fund raisers and people do drink too much and might have an accident, and people are more important than animals. I have see some pretty drunk people at Church socials.
I see nothing wrong with selling beer / wine at Church fundraisers - HOWEVER - if someone drinks too much and no one takes their keys or offers to drive them home -
seriously irresponsible, immoral - and I believe illegal!
Yes it is all of those things. But I have never seen it happen.:rolleyes: I would rather see a rodeo than a drunk driver and the heartache it can cause. I am not against alchol as a fund raiser either, My point is that people are more important than animals :thumbsup:or fish.
Oh yikes - we agree that it is there is no problem with selling beer / wine to raise money for a church event

We agree that it would be irresponsible for said Church to allow drunk drivers to go away behind the wheel

The point is however ----- rodeos cause suffering to animals - therefore how can a Church justify this as a fundraiser?
Well I disagree with the both of you!!! I think it is irresponsible to serve alcohol at Church functions. We can support the Church and have a good time WITHOUT alcohol. If so much as ONE person has too much to drink at a Church event then it should not be present. The negativity and harm of alcohol does not belong at Church events. The problems of alcohol abuse and misuse are prevalant in our society and I think that all Church goers can do without, and set a good example for the younger members and the children*** for the short time ***they are at Church events. (They can then go home and tie one on afterward.)

The parish that I belong to ***serves ***alcohol at events where children are present. They do not ***sell ***it, as a liquor license is required to sell it. I am vehemently opposed to the presence of alcohol at Church events, and my children have witnessed adults who have had too much to drink at Church events. As a Catholic community we should take the high road and set good, clean examples for our youth. (How can we expect them NOT to touch the stuff, when they see adults abusing it at CHURCH events.) If alcohol causes just ONE person to stumble then it shouldn’t be present at Church events.

Sorry for going off on a tangent…alcohol abuse bugs me…and doing it in front of children really bugs me…and doing it on Church property with children present really, really bugs me…
 
Well I disagree with the both of you!!! I think it is irresponsible to serve alcohol at Church functions. We can support the Church and have a good time WITHOUT alcohol. If so much as ONE person has too much to drink at a Church event then it should not be present. The negativity and harm of alcohol does not belong at Church events. The problems of alcohol abuse and misuse are prevalant in our society and I think that all Church goers can do without, and set a good example for the younger members and the children*** for the short time ***they are at Church events. (They can then go home and tie one on afterward.)

The parish that I belong to ***serves ***alcohol at events where children are present. They do not ***sell ***it, as a liquor license is required to sell it. I am vehemently opposed to the presence of alcohol at Church events, and my children have witnessed adults who have had too much to drink at Church events. As a Catholic community we should take the high road and set good, clean examples for our youth. (How can we expect them NOT to touch the stuff, when they see adults abusing it at CHURCH events.) If alcohol causes just ONE person to stumble then it shouldn’t be present at Church events.

Sorry for going off on a tangent…alcohol abuse bugs me…and doing it in front of children really bugs me…and doing it on Church property with children present really, really bugs me…
Remeber Jesus’s first mericle was turning water into wine.
 
Well I disagree with the both of you!!! I think it is irresponsible to serve alcohol at Church functions. We can support the Church and have a good time WITHOUT alcohol. If so much as ONE person has too much to drink at a Church event then it should not be present. The negativity and harm of alcohol does not belong at Church events. The problems of alcohol abuse and misuse are prevalant in our society and I think that all Church goers can do without, and set a good example for the younger members and the children*** for the short time ***they are at Church events. (They can then go home and tie one on afterward.)

The parish that I belong to ***serves ***alcohol at events where children are present. They do not ***sell ***it, as a liquor license is required to sell it. I am vehemently opposed to the presence of alcohol at Church events, and my children have witnessed adults who have had too much to drink at Church events. As a Catholic community we should take the high road and set good, clean examples for our youth. (How can we expect them NOT to touch the stuff, when they see adults abusing it at CHURCH events.) If alcohol causes just ONE person to stumble then it shouldn’t be present at Church events.

Sorry for going off on a tangent…alcohol abuse bugs me…and doing it in front of children really bugs me…and doing it on Church property with children present really, really bugs me…
Thanks for diagreeing. We are all free to our oponions. Our Church sell alchol at functions and I do like a drink my self. But I for one would rather see a rodeo.
 
I think a rodeo is a great fundraising idea! The Houston Rodeo is one of the largest fundraisers in the state for college scholarships. Why not turn that interest and participation to fundraising for the Church? Excellent idea. 👍👍
 
Christ sanctioned alcohol at a wedding.
Therefore there is nothing wrong with alcohol at a church function.

Unless you wish to argue the error in Christ’s actions??
I guess I missed the part where Christ had one too many and slurred his speech and had trouble keeping his balance while the little children witnessed his behavior. I also missed the part where he then drove off, intoxicated, in his little red sportscar and had a head on collision with another vehicle.

Alcohol abuse/misuse is a serious societal problem today that causes a lot of harm. There is everything wrong with having it at a Church function, if its presence hurts just ONE person. I don’t want my children to witness drunkeness at a Church function. If I wanted them to see this, I can take them to a bar. I have no problem if a parish wants to have alcohol at an ADULT ONLY function–but I do not want it around my children. Is it a parish or is it a bar??? How many times in the Bible was Christ drunk anyway???

I know of a man who went to a Church function and had a few beers. He thought he was fine to drive. He got in an accident and killed his wife who was in the passenger seat next to him. So there is nothing wrong with alcohol at a Church function??? That’s Christ’s plan??? Drink, be merry, get in the car, and kill your wife???

Christ sanctioned alcohol at a wedding??? I recall the word used was wine–and are you aware that in the original language in which the Bible was written there are two words for wine–one being an alcoholic wine and the other being a non-alcoholic wine?? I believe that there is debate among scholars over which wine is which in several Biblical passages.

And just how many people at that wedding drove vehicles home that night???
 
Don’t be holier than Christ?!
Are you saying that Christ was a drunk??? An alcoholic??? Got mean when he drank???

Alcohol served at Church functions is often consumed by at least one alcoholic in attendance (often of the closet variety). It is often over-consumed. This is often done as children look on. It sets a bad example to youth who often experiement (illegally) with alcohol in high school–why not??? even their parents drink it at Church functions. Alcohol consumed at a Church function can be a significant factor in an automobile acccident.

I am not saying to ban alcohol from all of society, but considering the huge negative impact that it has, our parishes should be more responsible about allowing it at parish functions, especially those where children are present.
 
The point is however ----- ***rodeos cause suffering to animals ***- therefore how can a Church justify this as a fundraiser?
This is the topic. Sorry 4elise for taking your thread off topic.
 
Are you saying that Christ was a drunk??? An alcoholic??? Got mean when he drank???

Alcohol served at Church functions is often consumed by at least one alcoholic in attendance (often of the closet variety). It is often over-consumed. This is often done as children look on. It sets a bad example to youth who often experiement (illegally) with alcohol in high school–why not??? even their parents drink it at Church functions. Alcohol consumed at a Church function can be a significant factor in an automobile acccident.

I am not saying to ban alcohol from all of society, but considering the huge negative impact that it has, our parishes should be more responsible about allowing it at parish functions, especially those where children are present.
So everybody that tales a drink is going to get drunk? You sond more like someone who is Christian Reformed then Catholic to me.
 
So everybody that tales a drink is going to get drunk?
No, but people do have too much to drink. It happens, it happens a lot. (It only takes ONE.) We have huge societal problems with alcohol abuse and misuse, driving under the influence etc. Drinking an alcoholic beverage is not like drinking water or juice. If it is to be present at a parish function, that particular parish should make the decision to have it present with considerations to the problematic nature of the substance. I don’t have a problem with it at ADULT ONLY functions–provided no one is allowed to get behind the wheel if they have had too much (but then how can you gauge that?) I think that it can easily be eliminated from functions where children are present. Adults can have a good time without alcohol and should be able to model this example for the parish’s young people.

If you can drink it in a bar, if you can drink it at a party, if you can drink it at home, why can’t you be without it for a few short hours when you are at a parish function??? If it harms just one person, one family (and often you will never know about this–the closet alcoholic in your parish who decides to have just one beer to be social–then goes home and continues to bing, etc.), should we not just eliminate the temptation?

And then there’s the guy that I know that had just a couple beers at a parish function. He thought he was OK to drive–no one saw that he wasn’t–not even his wife. He got in an accident on the way home and now his wife is dead.

There’s a lot of bad baggage that comes with alcohol. It’s consumption can be harmful (in many ways), and it can be a destructive force. If a person can drink responsibly that’s great, but as a community we need to consider those who have problems and issues with it, even if they do not have a stamp on their forehead that says “Alcoholic,” or “Closet Alcoholic,” or “Bing Drinker,” or “Has Been Known to Occassionally Drink a Little Too Much,” etc., etc.

AGAIN, SORRY FOR GOING OFF TOPIC. Maybe someone needs to start a THREAD on ALCOHOL at CHURCH functions.
You sond more like someone who is Christian Reformed then Catholic to me.
So it is un-Catholic to have concerns about the dangers of alcohol??? It is un-Catholic to be concened about people drinking alcohol (and showing some obvious affects of that) in front of your children???
 
And then there’s the guy that I know that had just a couple beers at a parish function. He thought he was OK to drive–no one saw that he wasn’t–not even his wife. He got in an accident on the way home and now his wife is dead.
Well with this story shared it is easy to see why you feel so strongly about this… I’m very sorry to hear about this… we had a young family - mother and father returning from the parish in two different cars - mom with their two young kids, returning from preparing meals for the homeless - husband got home and wife never made it there so he returned on the road and found that they had been hit by a drunk driver, their son killed, mom hand crushed and brain damage — this was the drivers third offense. Drunk drivers impossible to reconcile the pain

I’ll join you on a thread on the dangers of drinking - perhaps we can brainstorm ways to help educate people more about these dangers.

Our parish - when we do a fiesta - they always have a beer booth - run by the KoC - I know that they would never sell to anyone under age, and I’m sure that they keep an eye to ensure that they aren’t selling too much to any one individual - of course that isn’t allowing for someone showing up having already had a beer or two - so I do see you point - and think it is something that we should be very aware of… 😉
 
Maybe to pull this a bit back on topic (although the discussion of the responsibilities of serving alcohol at church functions is a good discussion to have), I thought I’d give my impressions on animal treatment at rodeos.

I spent many years as a participant in rodeo, and attended many more as a spectator. Rodeo animals fit into two categories, ones owned and brought to the event by the competitors and ones owned and brought to the event by a stock contractor. The first group would consist of the horses used by the barrel racers, steer wrestlers and ropers. These animals are typically well cared for, and abuses, while not unheard of, are pretty rare. I know of only one case where a team roper was abusive of his horse, causing serious injury.

The stock contractor is responsible for providing the bucking bulls, bucking horses, steers for the steer wrestling and team roping and calves for the calf roping. They usually arrive with one or more large trailers, the kind you typically see cattle hauled in.

First, the bulls. People seem to focus their outrage at rodeos on how the bulls are treated, although I think that’s a bit misplaced. One thing about bulls, they are really amazing athletes.Most bulls need little or no motivation to buck off a rider. The strap that people see on a bull is tied at about the equivalent place of where some younger guys wear their pants…kind of low, right at the hip/leg crease. If you’ve ever seen a guy with his boxers up and his pants super low, and wondered why that feeling of wearing his pants there didn’t just drive him nuts, you can understand why the strap works. It’s annoying and ticklish and the bull is basically bucking to kick it off, like you might try to shake a pair of low pants off. Sometimes a ‘hot shot’ is used to get the bull out, but it’s not usually necessary. The riders also wear spurs to help their grip, but the bulls hide is very tough. Now, of course, the bull would probably rather just be hanging out in pasture, but I’ve only seen one bull that was ever injured (tail got caught in a gate), and most appear healthy and well fed. If the stock contractor goes to the big pro rodeos, he or she has probably spent a fortune on the bulls, and they are pretty well cared for.

With the bucking horses, it varies quite a bit. The top stock contractors are spending a lot on horses specially bred for rodeo and care for them well. Other contractors buy either failed racehorses or whatever they can get at the auction, try them out in rodeo and if they don’t buck, they go back to auction where they typically go to slaughter. One of the problems is that horses just aren’t as durable as bulls. Outside of the draft crosses that are bred for rodeo, most horses legs just don’t seem to do well with that level of pounding. Jumpers and eventing horses that have comparable stress are usually wearing protective leg gear and have their feet cared for by farriers, but rodeo bucking horses don’t get these protections. In my years of rodeo, I’ve seen more bucking horses seriously injured than their riders.

It’s the treatment of the calves that always caused me the biggest problem. Even back when I was participating, I found the calf roping event was hard to watch. The calf is roped around the neck by a rider on horseback, then the horse stops and the calf is jerked down. The rider dismounts and picks the calf up and throws it back to the ground (the calf has to struggle back to it’s feet before the rider gets there so it can be thrown down again). Then the calf’s legs are tied and the rider waits for a number of seconds to make sure it can’t get loose. The calf then is released and is allowed to stagger off. Perhaps it’s because of the fact that they are so young (it’s kind of like watching kittens get kicked) or perhaps because you know that, unlike the bulls, they aren’t valuable to the stock contractor and will likely be gone pretty soon, but to me it was the event that first made me question rodeo. Calf roping is an event where the animal suffering is very real and in your face, and it is hard to find the entertainment value in it for me.
 
Maybe to pull this a bit back on topic (although the discussion of the responsibilities of serving alcohol at church functions is a good discussion to have), I thought I’d give my impressions on animal treatment at rodeos.

I spent many years as a participant in rodeo, and attended many more as a spectator. Rodeo animals fit into two categories, ones owned and brought to the event by the competitors and ones owned and brought to the event by a stock contractor. The first group would consist of the horses used by the barrel racers, steer wrestlers and ropers. These animals are typically well cared for, and abuses, while not unheard of, are pretty rare. I know of only one case where a team roper was abusive of his horse, causing serious injury.

The stock contractor is responsible for providing the bucking bulls, bucking horses, steers for the steer wrestling and team roping and calves for the calf roping. They usually arrive with one or more large trailers, the kind you typically see cattle hauled in.

First, the bulls. People seem to focus their outrage at rodeos on how the bulls are treated, although I think that’s a bit misplaced. One thing about bulls, they are really amazing athletes.Most bulls need little or no motivation to buck off a rider. The strap that people see on a bull is tied at about the equivalent place of where some younger guys wear their pants…kind of low, right at the hip/leg crease. If you’ve ever seen a guy with his boxers up and his pants super low, and wondered why that feeling of wearing his pants there didn’t just drive him nuts, you can understand why the strap works. It’s annoying and ticklish and the bull is basically bucking to kick it off, like you might try to shake a pair of low pants off. Sometimes a ‘hot shot’ is used to get the bull out, but it’s not usually necessary. The riders also wear spurs to help their grip, but the bulls hide is very tough. Now, of course, the bull would probably rather just be hanging out in pasture, but I’ve only seen one bull that was ever injured (tail got caught in a gate), and most appear healthy and well fed. If the stock contractor goes to the big pro rodeos, he or she has probably spent a fortune on the bulls, and they are pretty well cared for.

With the bucking horses, it varies quite a bit. The top stock contractors are spending a lot on horses specially bred for rodeo and care for them well. Other contractors buy either failed racehorses or whatever they can get at the auction, try them out in rodeo and if they don’t buck, they go back to auction where they typically go to slaughter. One of the problems is that horses just aren’t as durable as bulls. Outside of the draft crosses that are bred for rodeo, most horses legs just don’t seem to do well with that level of pounding. Jumpers and eventing horses that have comparable stress are usually wearing protective leg gear and have their feet cared for by farriers, but rodeo bucking horses don’t get these protections. In my years of rodeo, I’ve seen more bucking horses seriously injured than their riders.

It’s the treatment of the calves that always caused me the biggest problem. Even back when I was participating, I found the calf roping event was hard to watch. The calf is roped around the neck by a rider on horseback, then the horse stops and the calf is jerked down. The rider dismounts and picks the calf up and throws it back to the ground (the calf has to struggle back to it’s feet before the rider gets there so it can be thrown down again). Then the calf’s legs are tied and the rider waits for a number of seconds to make sure it can’t get loose. The calf then is released and is allowed to stagger off. Perhaps it’s because of the fact that they are so young (it’s kind of like watching kittens get kicked) or perhaps because you know that, unlike the bulls, they aren’t valuable to the stock contractor and will likely be gone pretty soon, but to me it was the event that first made me question rodeo. Calf roping is an event where the animal suffering is very real and in your face, and it is hard to find the entertainment value in it for me.
Thanks for adding this first hand information - I know as a kid it was the calf roping that would make me cover my eyes - and given the teaching of our Church just doesn’t make sense for a Church to use as a fundraiser.
 
Well I disagree with the both of you!!! I think it is irresponsible to serve alcohol at Church functions. We can support the Church and have a good time WITHOUT alcohol. If so much as ONE person has too much to drink at a Church event then it should not be present. The negativity and harm of alcohol does not belong at Church events.
Remeber Jesus’s first mericle was turning water into wine.
Christ sanctioned alcohol at a wedding.
Therefore there is nothing wrong with alcohol at a church function.

Unless you wish to argue the error in Christ’s actions??
I guess I missed the part where Christ had one too many and slurred his speech and had trouble keeping his balance while the little children witnessed his behavior. I also missed the part where he then drove off, intoxicated, in his little red sportscar and had a head on collision with another vehicle.
How about we stick to an argument instead of moving the target around.

You first claim alcohol itself is wrong, then when pinned down you casually slide into public drunkeness as though it was what you meant all along.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to attribute your arguments to any type of noble cause when you take on such deceptive tactics.

You need to be specific with your arguments.
Your broad strokes approach is both wrong and damaging to your case.
 
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