Funeral Mass

[BSK]

I did a Funeral Mass at a local church this past weekend. The family asked for the Panis Angelisus. IT was sung at the wedding of the deceased 50 years ago.

The Liturgical Director and the Priest didn’t want it done because the congregation would not be able to sing along.

I am contracted out all over this area to do funerals. I have never heard of this one.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I did a Funeral Mass at a local church this past weekend. The family asked for the Panis Angelisus. IT was sung at the wedding of the deceased 50 years ago.

The Liturgical Director and the Priest didn’t want it done because the congregation would not be able to sing along.

I am contracted out all over this area to do funerals. I have never heard of this one.

Any thoughts on this?

Understanding that the funeral Mass is NOT a performance, however it’s also not necessarly a “sing-along” either.

 

[Phemie]

I did a Funeral Mass at a local church this past weekend. The family asked for the Panis Angelisus. IT was sung at the wedding of the deceased 50 years ago.

The Liturgical Director and the Priest didn’t want it done because the congregation would not be able to sing along.

I am contracted out all over this area to do funerals. I have never heard of this one.

Any thoughts on this?

While many parishes have that rule that everyone be able to sing the hymn for it to be used there is no such ‘Church’ rule. The GIRM is clear that t’s perfectly acceptable to have the choir only sing the Entrance, the Offertory & the Communion hymn. The only hymn that MUST be sung by the entire congregation per the GIRM is a ‘post-Communion medidation hymn’ if one is sung.

 

[BSK]

I forgot to add that the Panis was placed at the Offertory and all other hymns were announced and congregation was invited to sing with me. The Psalm was sung with the refrain cantored once and repeated.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . . The only hymn that MUST be sung by the entire congregation per the GIRM is a ‘post-Communion meditation hymn’ if one is sung.

That figures; it’s the only one we don’t sing, just applaud.

 

[benedictgal]

I did a Funeral Mass at a local church this past weekend. The family asked for the Panis Angelisus. IT was sung at the wedding of the deceased 50 years ago.

The Liturgical Director and the Priest didn’t want it done because the congregation would not be able to sing along.

I am contracted out all over this area to do funerals. I have never heard of this one.

Any thoughts on this?

I have also been a party to many weddings and funerals, having planned both my mother’s and my paternal grandmother’s. At my mom’s funeral, the Panis Angelicus and the Ave Maria were sung. Ave Maria was the offertory and Panis was the Communion Meditation. At my grandma’s funeral, the music director at my grandma’s Austin parish balked because I wanted the Attende Domine as the entrance and the Salve Regina for the recessional (my grandma had died a week before Holy Week and she had an immense Marian devotion). I won out and luckily, since my PV traveled all the way to Austin for the Mass, he was able to chant both of them.

Now, I would be surprised if any of the folks attending Wedding or Funeral Masses would even sing. I have sung at a few funerals and I can tell you from personal experience that most do not (or will not) sing. Sadly, these are also the same folks whose only exposure to the Church is for these events, as they need to be prompted when to sit, stand and kneel. I am embarassed to say this, but, I include some of my own relatives, including my father’s half-sister, in the bunch. And, if they don’t sing, they are also, unfortunately, more often than not, unable to make the responses.

I might remind the liturgy person (and the priest, for that matter) that Pope Benedict certainly had no qualms about the Panis Angelicus sung at one of his Masses. In fact, with all that he endured at the DC Mass, the Panis Angelicus was a most welcome respite. He practically hugged Placido Domingo for singng it.

 

[baltobetsy]

I sang a funeral a couple of weeks ago where the family requested a whole lot of praise & worship type music. Some of it was unfamiliar to me, but I prepared it. The congregation was huge, so with the combination of all those specific requests and the large group of people, I expected some vigorous singing. WRONG!! One or two of the immediate family sang softly and that was it.

I’ll bet if we had done “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name,” they would have belted it out.

Betsy

 

[BSK]

My bet is that most people at funerals are not going to sing either way. Of course, encourage them to do so but ?
BSK

 

[benedictgal]

My bet is that most people at funerals are not going to sing either way. Of course, encourage them to do so but ?

                       BSK

Unfortunately, some may be too caught up in their grief or may be in their own little world. I have seen this and don’t blame them one bit. I’ll be honest, though, when my mom and grandma died, I was too busy worrying about how things would turn out that I really did not shut down until after everything was over.

For weddings, don’t expect the folks in the pews to sing. It’s a mixed bag as to who is there. We’re lucky if we can get them to at least sing the Gospel Acclamation. One thing about Lenten weddings, though. At the Cathedral, we would tell them that the music must be tempered and that we would not be singing the Alleluia or anything with Alleluia in it.

 

[Phemie]

Unfortunately, some may be too caught up in their grief or may be in their own little world. I have seen this and don’t blame them one bit. I’ll be honest, though, when my mom and grandma died, I was too busy worrying about how things would turn out that I really did not shut down until after everything was over.

It’s true for Catholic funerals, yet at Protestant funerals I’ve experienced quite the opposite. Maybe it’s because the Protestants sing more at the best of times.

Of course in my hometown parish they don’t encourage singing at all. It’s all choir and if by some fluke you happen to know what they are singing and you dare open your mouth the locals glare at you. Of course the choir encourages that by never singing the same piece two Sundays in a row so it’s alway a new song and there are neither hymnals nor worship aids of any kind. Believe me in that parish it’s all about performance and not about worship. At Dad’s funeral the DM consented to have someone sing “Ave Maria” because it’s a show-stopper but she informed me that there would be no other Latin because “well, the Church doesn’t use Latin anymore, it’s all French. Don’t worry, we’ll pick something nice.” There wasn’t a single other thing sung that was at all familiar - including the responses and acclamations.

For weddings, don’t expect the folks in the pews to sing. It’s a mixed bag as to who is there. We’re lucky if we can get them to at least sing the Gospel Acclamation. One thing about Lenten weddings, though. At the Cathedral, we would tell them that the music must be tempered and that we would not be singing the Alleluia or anything with Alleluia in it.

 

[Sarabande]

Unfortunately, some may be too caught up in their grief or may be in their own little world. I have seen this and don’t blame them one bit. I’ll be honest, though, when my mom and grandma died, I was too busy worrying about how things would turn out that I really did not shut down until after everything was over.

I would say this is true for most Catholic funerals I’ve been a musician for. Once in a while, you will get that rare funeral where people will sing (usually I’ll find out that many of the people there are musicians or just people who really love music), but overall, and I’ve done a lot of them all over the area, the majority do not sing. I do think many of the people are grieving as well, because most of the time the families do choose the decease’s favorite hymns or their own favorite hymns to help them grieve. I have sung the “Panis Angelicus” and “Ave Maria” numerous times at funerals at the request of the family. I’ve even sung the Mozart “Ave Verum Corpus” as a request. At most churches, there is no problem, but there was one time where the music director at this particular church felt that we shouldn’t do the “Panis Angelicus” because “no one would sing it” even though it was a specific request by the family.

 

[johnnykins]

Gack, Gack, Gack Gack Gack…

The last funeral I went to - for a practicing Catholic, with a practicing Catholic widower in attendance, with practicing Catholic children - had a priest who invited everyone to Communion, changed the words to the Canon as well as other texts, used the “Protestant” version of the Our Father and told everyone to sit during the Canon. He thereby confused all Catholics in the congregation in order to be “welcoming” to non-Catholics who didn’t know any better anyways! My experience is non-Catholics expect a Catholic service in a Catholic Church, and the only people embarrassed by Catholicism are the Catholic priests, nuns and liturgists above a certain age.

Now a music director refuses to use a traditional, orthodox hymn for the specious reason that the congregation won’t sing? Has he not noticed that nobody sings the dreck that is routinely foisted upon us: usually syncopated, in a key few can sing, no 4 part music, with dubious if not clearly heretical lyrics. It’s almost a joke that Catholics don’t sing!! Who does he think is to blame? Here’s a clue - IT’S Music Directors, liturgists and priests who have no taste or talent or appreciation for the Mass, it’s meaning, history and traditions!

Contrary to popular belief, full active participation in the Mass does NOT mean that all frogs must croak out the notes to the musical garbage selected by the tasteless crew in charge of far too many liturgies.

It really is time to ban ALL music from the Mass for a generation to kill off the plague of OCP and such ilk that has become Catholic hymnody in the last 40 years. Then, maybe, we can reclaim the music of our heritage that was so cavalierly and tastelessly tossed out by the Kumbaya crowd.

 

[puppypatrol]

I did a Funeral Mass at a local church this past weekend. The family asked for the Panis Angelisus. IT was sung at the wedding of the deceased 50 years ago.

The Liturgical Director and the Priest didn’t want it done because the congregation would not be able to sing along.

I am contracted out all over this area to do funerals. I have never heard of this one.

Any thoughts on this?

There are certain parts of the Mass that, liturgically speaking, HAVE to be people participation. The Presentation of the Gift or Offertory is one of those places. The piece could have been used during Communion, after Communion or before or after the Mass. The people have to be able to participate in the liturgy since the word liturgy means “work of the people”

Also, you would be suprised how many people find comfort in singing at a funeral. Just because you don’t hear them, doesn’t mean they aren’t singing. Other than the parts of the Mass, (i.e Holy, Holy, Holy, etc…) the procession, the offertory, and the dismissal, the rest of the music do not necessarily have to be what everyone can sing. There were many other options other than not using the piece at all.

 

[BSK]

Seems that all people have a different interpetation of where a one piece solo (in Latin or not) should be placed at a Funeral Mass. Offertory, Communion, Meditation,etc. I guess this is why there are so many confused people out there.

Why oh why, can’t the Catholic Church just give us one set of rules without giving us loops, holes and maybes that confuse the issue.
BSK

 

[Phemie]

Seems that all people have a different interpetation of where a one piece solo (in Latin or not) should be placed at a Funeral Mass. Offertory, Communion, Meditation,etc. I guess this is why there are so many confused people out there.

Why oh why, can’t the Catholic Church just give us one set of rules without giving us loops, holes and maybes that confuse the issue.
BSK

It has, in the GIRM which is quite clear.

GIRM 74. The procession bringing the gifts is accompanied by the Offertory chant (cf. above, no. 37b), which continues at least until the gifts have been placed on the altar. The norms on the manner of singing are the same as for the Entrance chant (cf. no. 48). Singing may always accompany the rite at the offertory, even when there is no procession with the gifts.

1. (Entrance chant) The singing at this time is done either alternately by the choir and the people or in a similar way by the cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone. In the dioceses of the United States of America there are four options for the Entrance Chant: (1) the antiphon from the Roman Missal or the Psalm from the Roman Gradual as set to music there or in another musical setting; (2) the seasonal antiphon and Psalm of the Simple Gradual; (3) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (4) a suitable liturgical song similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop.55
2. In the dioceses of the United States of America there are four options for the Communion chant: (1) the antiphon from the Roman Missal or the Psalm from the Roman Gradual as set to music there or in another musical setting; (2) the seasonal antiphon and Psalm of the Simple Gradual; (3) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (4) a suitable liturgical song chosen in accordance with no. 86 above. This is sung either by the choir alone or by the choir or cantor with the people.
3. When the distribution of Communion is finished, as circumstances suggest, the priest and faithful spend some time praying privately. If desired, a psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the entire congregation.**
   **

 

[Phemie]

There are certain parts of the Mass that, liturgically speaking, HAVE to be people participation. The Presentation of the Gift or Offertory is one of those places.

Not according to the GIRM.

The piece could have been used during Communion,

Yes

after Communion

Not according to the GIRM. The post-Communion song (hymn, psalm or canticle) must be sung by the congregation.

or before or after the Mass. The people have to be able to participate in the liturgy since the word liturgy means “work of the people”

Participation may be by active listening.

 

[BSK]

The either/or is the catch. That puts it in the hands of the individuals that are in charge at the individual churches to interprete.
I was just told by the Liturgical Director that only for a Communion Meditation at the Funerals can a solo be done. However, I thought that the Meditation after Communion should be done my the congregation.

 

[puppypatrol]

Ultimately, it is the pastor that makes the final decision. The Liturgical Director is only to make recommendations.

Below are from the 2003 (most recent) GIRM for the United States

1. The procession bringing the gifts is accompanied by the Offertory chant (cf. above, no. 37b), which continues at least until the gifts have been placed on the altar. The norms on the manner of singing are the same as for the Entrance chant (cf. above, no. 48). Singing may always accompany the rite at the offertory, even when there is no procession with the gifts.

*(The Entrance

1. After the people have gathered, the Entrance chant begins as the priest enters with the deacon and ministers.** The purpose of this chant is to open the celebration, foster the unity of those who have been gathered, introduce their thoughts to the mystery of the liturgical season or festivity, and accompany the procession of the priest and ministers**.
2. The singing at this time is done either alternately by the choir and the people or in a similar way by the cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone. In the dioceses of the United States of America there are four options for the Entrance Chant: (1) the antiphon from the Roman Missal or the Psalm from the Roman Gradual as set to music there or in another musical setting; (2) the seasonal antiphon and Psalm of the Simple Gradual; (3) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (4) a suitable liturgical song similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop.55)

Communion

1. While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun. Its purpose is to express the communicants’ union in spirit by means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.74 If, however, there is to be a hymn after Communion, the Communion chant should be ended in a timely manner.
2. In the dioceses of the United States of America there are four options for the Communion chant: (1) the antiphon from the Roman Missal or the Psalm from the Roman Gradual as set to music there or in another musical setting; (2) the seasonal antiphon and Psalm of the Simple Gradual; (3) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop, including psalms arranged in responsorial or metrical forms; (4) a suitable liturgical song chosen in accordance with no. 86 above.** This is sung either by the choir alone or by the choir or cantor with the people.**

Another thing to keep in mind is what the Bishop prefers and his understanding of what is liturgical. Family requests are taken into consideration but they also have to be flexible as to appropriate placement of the requests in the Mass.

 

[peary]

I did a Funeral Mass at a local church this past weekend. The family asked for the Panis Angelisus. IT was sung at the wedding of the deceased 50 years ago.

The Liturgical Director and the Priest didn’t want it done because the congregation would not be able to sing along.

I am contracted out all over this area to do funerals. I have never heard of this one.

Any thoughts on this?

You can’t fix stupid.

 

[Victorious]

The Liturgical Director and the Priest didn’t want it done because the congregation would not be able to sing along.

Sheesh. I learned “Panis Angelicus” when I was a kid! I wish people would quit trying to protect me from “hard” things at Mass.