Future of the Catholic Church In Light of the Sex Abuse Scandals

[Seeker]

With the current global sex abuse scandals, is this end of what we know of the Catholic Church? If No, then what is the future of the Church!, I don’t condone what some (priests/nuns and other Church officials) have done in the Church, and i believe they should be put on trial for their crime and be given the appropriate punishment, but why is the news media sensationalizing just what the Catholic Church has done, what about other Religions, are they not guilty of such crimes?

Thanks

Seeker

 

[Canto]

The Myth of Pedophile Priests
Fr. Longenecker

gkupsidedown.blogspot.com/2010/03/pedophile-priests.html

A fascinating read.

 

[SunnaB16]

Itd be wrong to conclude that a person whos suffering from cancer must be evil.
The Church is a Divinely instituted organism, with the Holy Spirit as its soul.
The sins of individual Catholics, no matter how depraved, dont mean that the Church itself is evil. To a greater or lesser extent, were all sinners; and the Church is under ferocious demonic attack. The clergy (including the bishops) are copping the worst of it.

For the past 2000 years, the enemies of the Church have predicted its destruction…
It`s taken mainstream Protestantism 500 years to collapse; if the Church were not protected by the Holy Spirit, it would have gone the same way long before AD1000, let alone AD2000.
A house built on Rock vs houses built on sand.

 

[Hesychios]

With the current global sex abuse scandals, is this end of what we know of the Catholic Church?

This too shall pass.

If No, then what is the future of the Church!, I don’t condone what some (priests/nuns and other Church officials) have done in the Church, and i believe they should be put on trial for their crime and be given the appropriate punishment,

It is a systemic problem.

The way the church is structured, this kind of thing will happen. The church is very insular, the college of bishops are virtually a self-selected group. This is at odds with the way bishops were chosen early in the church, which was by election through the local synod. Bishops were chosen by the people who knew them, and a reputation for holiness and wisdom was very important.

This saying is trustworthy: whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil’s punishment.

He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil’s trap.

Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain, holding fast to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. Moreover, they should be tested first; then, if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
1 Timothy 3:1 - 10

The early bishops you know of (and treasure the memory of) were chosen by the local church as a synod: Irenaeus, Ambrose of Milan, Augustine of Hippo, Vincent of Lerins …

Now we have something of an institution in place. In some ways, the institution will need to protect itself from attacks ‘for the greater good’. Information is power, so the control of information can be a powerful tool. One sees this with police departments: if the general public loses faith in it’s own police force, they might take the law into their own hands, and that could be worse! So instead, we have this code of silence. Protect the institution at all costs … loose lips sink ships.

… but why is the news media sensationalizing just what the Catholic Church has done, what about other Religions, are they not guilty of such crimes?

This might surprise you, but here in China there has not been one news item, it makes absolutely no mention at all that I can tell.

The only way I was able to know anything about it was to read comments here on CAF.

Perhaps it is because no one here gives a damn, I don’t know. But if that were true, then perhaps the opposite is also true: it makes news where people care about the church.

 

[dancer_one]

With the current global sex abuse scandals, is this end of what we know of the Catholic Church? If No, then what is the future of the Church!, I don’t condone what some (priests/nuns and other Church officials) have done in the Church, and i believe they should be put on trial for their crime and be given the appropriate punishment, but why is the news media sensationalizing just what the Catholic Church has done, what about other Religions, are they not guilty of such crimes?

Thanks

Seeker

Seeker, they always pick on the Catholic Church, always, not much is said about vicars I personally think they are jealous of our faith.

 

[Think_About_It]

Hello Seeker,

Your prophecies will be fulfilled. Just as history has seen the demise of thousands of other religions, this will be no exception. An institution so at ends with our values and with social justice (esspecially in the actions of its clergy) cannot/should not last.

 

[jonpd]

Hello Seeker,

Your prophecies will be fulfilled. Just as history has seen the demise of thousands of other religions, this will be no exception. An institution so at ends with our values and with social justice (especially in the actions of its clergy) cannot/should not last.

Social justice? The Church is one of the leading institutions fighting for the poor (Catholic Relief services, St. Vincent De Paul, etc.). It almost stands alone in protecting the rights of the unborn.

Sexual immorality in the world has reached a crisis outside of the church and some elements in the church have succumbed to it. The Church needs to return to the values it has always promoted, fidelity in marriage, opposition to abortion and contraception, etc. Although the Holy Fathers have promoted these policies in Humanae Vitae, Theology of the Body, etc. the bishops and rank and file Catholics have paid lip service or ignored them. We should not be surprised then when these kinds of scandals emerge.

 

[Think_About_It]

We should not be surprised then when these kinds of scandals emerge.

I agree. It’s just the sort of thing we expect from a man-made religion. But when the system colapses, those who want to do good will do so of their own accord, and those who wish to do ill won’t necessarily have the benefit of someone covering for them.

Admittedly, your idea of social justice and mine are different. I believe it’s socially unjust to let a nation wipe itself out because some high-feeling man in a castle thinks condoms are evil. I think it’s socially unjust to lobby against the right of homosexuals to be wed to one another. I think it’s socially unjust to put men and women on unequal terms in God’s alleged holy house.

Apperenty, enough is not yet enough, but it will be one day. The number of non-believers has doubled in the last 10 or so years, making them one of the fastest growing groups in North America. I don’t expect these figures to level off is all - it is by faith alone that you think these figures will.

I think what will happen is the same thing that has happened with a lot of other superstition: it will get pushed to the fringes of mythology with all the other once-believed-in gods of our human history.

 

[lemonbeam]

Look at this article about Rabbis: Sexual Abuse by Rabbis - Where is the Public Outcry?

**Last year, 40 minors in this small Jewish community said they were abused. Last year, there were 10 such allegations in the entire Catholic Church in all 50 states. Catholics are fed up with the duplicity. It’s not just Roman Polanski who can rape and run with impunity these days. The politics of child rape is sickening.
**

opposingviews.com/i/sexual-abuse-by-rabbis-where-is-the-public-outcry

In one borough of a city, Brooklyn, in the year of 2008, 40 minors said they where abused in the Jewish community. In the same year there where 10 allegations in the entire Catholic Church in all 50 states. And the fact that the number of allegations is known shows you how there are better child protection systems in place now. Any person getting abused by a person in a position of trust is horrible, but put this in perspective.

And yet the media and the Anti-Catholics make it seem like child abuse is a Catholic problem, when it goes on in other denominations and other religions far more than it does in the Catholic faith.

psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

The number of Catholic clergy who abused minors is no higher than clergy of other denominations, and no higher than the general adult male population estimation.

---

Other denominations and other religions are guilty of having sex abuse scandals.Yet the media makes it seem as if it only happens in the Catholic Church.

 

[Cojuanco]

My theory? The popular consciousness and the elites who foster them (whom I may add are majority non-Catholic) are projecting their own desires and depravities on Catholic priests, perhaps because Catholics are the minority religion, and thus, it is somewhat more acceptable to cast aspersions on them rather on representatives of the Protestant majority, at least in America. In other words, they attack us because they think we can’t fight back. It’s the societal version of a schoolyard bully.

Also, the Church tends to keep better personnel records than most Protestant denominations. It’s the same reason why the media attacks multi-national corporations more than small businesses, even when they are guilty of the same crimes.

Furthermore, I think it may have to do with the nature of American culture - as a friend of mine once said, American culture has traditionally been “Whiggish to the core.” For good reason, the Church is not a democratic structure, and has nevertheless done relatively well in winning souls. This goes against the common belief that democracy is a panacea. Therefore there must be something uniquely wrong with the Church to have carried out historically its mission so well.

 

[PA650]

I agree. It’s just the sort of thing we expect from a man-made religion. But when the system colapses, those who want to do good will do so of their own accord, and those who wish to do ill won’t necessarily have the benefit of someone covering for them.

Admittedly, your idea of social justice and mine are different. I believe it’s socially unjust to let a nation wipe itself out because some high-feeling man in a castle thinks condoms are evil. I think it’s socially unjust to lobby against the right of homosexuals to be wed to one another. I think it’s socially unjust to put men and women on unequal terms in God’s alleged holy house.

Apperenty, enough is not yet enough, but it will be one day. The number of non-believers has doubled in the last 10 or so years, making them one of the fastest growing groups in North America. I don’t expect these figures to level off is all - it is by faith alone that you think these figures will.

I think what will happen is the same thing that has happened with a lot of other superstition: it will get pushed to the fringes of mythology with all the other once-believed-in gods of our human history.

An interesting analysis. By any chance, are you a Fabian? Although not a North American organization, your diatribe is one I have heard from individuals belonging to that British Society.

With the current global sex abuse scandals, is this end of what we know of the Catholic Church?

Well, I wholeheartedly believe the following:

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

Thus, the Church should still be around.

 

[pinkjerry2010]

With the current global sex abuse scandals, is this end of what we know of the Catholic Church? If No, then what is the future of the Church!, I don’t condone what some (priests/nuns and other Church officials) have done in the Church, and i believe they should be put on trial for their crime and be given the appropriate punishment, but why is the news media sensationalizing just what the Catholic Church has done, what about other Religions, are they not guilty of such crimes?

Thanks

Seeker

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---

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[Think_About_It]

An interesting analysis. By any chance, are you a Fabian?

I am not. Can’t say I’ve ever heard of 'em.

Well, I wholeheartedly believe the following:

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

Thus, the Church should still be around.

That’s a pretty vague prophecy though. As long as there are still a trickle of believers, they can quote that scripture and say “SEE?”. Besides which, if religion is being pushed to the fringes of mythology, which I think slowly but surely it is, then such scripture is meaningless. I could say Ra, who brings light and warmth, will never die; the sun’s still shining isn’t it? (“Yes, but that doesn’t mean there’s a god responsible for it,” one protests, and I would say the same thing about the Catholic Church still being around).

 

[Cojuanco]

The Church has weathered scandals (even sex scandals) worse than the one we have now, as the saints have written. Obviously, if they didn’t fold then, where, from a secular standpoint, they should have, they’re not likely to fold now.

 

[PA650]

I am not. Can’t say I’ve ever heard of 'em.

That’s a pretty vague prophecy though. As long as there are still a trickle of believers, they can quote that scripture and say “SEE?”. Besides which, if religion is being pushed to the fringes of mythology, which I think slowly but surely it is, then such scripture is meaningless. I could say Ra, who brings light and warmth, will never die; the sun’s still shining isn’t it? (“Yes, but that doesn’t mean there’s a god responsible for it,” one protests, and I would say the same thing about the Catholic Church still being around).

Nothing you have stated, think about it, is new. The thoughts you have on religion have gained prominence in the past and then withered away over time. Robespierre was thoroughly convinced of his Cult of Reason surpassing the outmoded superstitious religion known as Catholicism, albeit things turned out differently.

 

[Think_About_It]

Nothing you have stated, think about it, is new. The thoughts you have on religion have gained prominence in the past and then withered away over time. Robespierre was thoroughly convinced of his Cult of Reason surpassing the outmoded superstitious religion known as Catholicism, albeit things turned out differently.

I didn’t say the idea was new. I’ve simply talked about how the age of reason is gaining momentum (the number of non-believers in North America having doubled in the last 10 years, making it the fastest growing group). Superstitions die at an exponential rate and we’re only now starting to hit the curve, gain speed. I don’t know how you determine that the ideas have withered away over time. They’ve been gaining momentum, pushing religion out of the public, out of schools, out of policy, increasingly since we first saw the age of reason. But in any event, people who were as sure of their creed as you, have had their religion totally annihilated in a short amount of time. Religion is a demand and supply thing. People may always have needs for spirituality, but not as the Catholic church offers it - telling people they’ve been born into a dispicable nature and will never live up to an impossible standard. People don’t need that, and they’re slowly realizing it.

Cojuanco

Globalization makes it impossible to hide scandal in the way that it might have been before. A Church isn’t going to fold under the weight of what people don’t know. The Church is the people, and there’s no reason to believe that Yahweh won’t be added to the list of gods (lofty list that it is) that people no longer worship because He’s become out-moded.

 

[jonpd]

I’ve simply talked about how the age of reason is gaining momentum (the number of non-believers in North America having doubled in the last 10 years, making it the fastest growing group). Superstitions die at an exponential rate and we’re only now starting to hit the curve, gain speed.

Do you have any facts to back up that statement? Seems to me “the age of Reason” has been around a while now - we have seen the results of it - Communism, Stalin, , Fascism, The Cultural Revolution in China, the piles of bodies have mounted, and maybe people are starting to have second thoughts.

People may always have needs for spirituality, but not as the Catholic church offers it - telling people they’ve been born into a despicable nature and will never live up to an impossible standard. People don’t need that, and they’re slowly realizing it.

Telling people that they are their own gods hasn’t exactly worked out so well either (see above list). That is a very distorted view of what the Church says - maybe you might try finding out what it really says instead of using some caricature. For one thing God values us very highly after all he made us. We were born with a nature to sin (if you don’t believe that read the daily paper) but with God’s help we can overcome that.

 

[mlund]

I didn’t say the idea was new. I’ve simply talked about how the age of reason is gaining momentum (the number of non-believers in North America having doubled in the last 10 years, making it the fastest growing group).

The “Age of Reason” is a concept older than you or I, certainly.

Critical, rational examination of proponents of active disbelief such as Richard Dawkins reveal that their arguments do not stem from esteem for the faculty of reason, but rather a combination of bias and an ignorance of the fundamentals of rational philosophy. The presumption that the typical Atheist or the aggressive Agnostic honors the faculty of reason in higher regard than the likes of St. Augustine or St. Thomas Moore is ill-supported.

The increasing rate of philosophical, economic, and scriptural illiteracy among non-believers could actually suggest the opposite - more people are gravitating towards non-belief because they are ignorant, not because they are more enlightened or rational than others. Most people I come across advocating such positions are driven by a resentment of the Natural Law’s implication that their paths to gratification and pleasure could be objectively wrong.

Globalization makes it impossible to hide scandal in the way that it might have been before. A Church isn’t going to fold under the weight of what people don’t know. The Church is the people, and there’s no reason to believe that Yahweh won’t be added to the list of gods (lofty list that it is) that people no longer worship because He’s become out-moded.

Yet the bigoted media establishment seems to be doing a grand job hiding the greater scandal of rampant sexual abuse of public school students by their teachers and administrators. This is, again, propelled by ignorance or even maleficence, but not enlightenment.

• Marty Lund

 

[Seagirt]

Hello Seeker,

Your prophecies will be fulfilled. Just as history has seen the demise of thousands of other religions, this will be no exception. An institution so at ends with our values and with social justice (esspecially in the actions of its clergy) cannot/should not last.

WILL THE CHURCH CHANGE AS A RESULT OF THE ABUSE CHARGES ??

Perhaps Karl Rahner was a prophet ahead of his time. He saw a future Church quite different than some Traditional Catholics would see it.

• here is a quote from his book review…

–The kind of Church that might correspond to Rahner’s vision of man and faith is sketched out in his collection of essays, Concern for the Church, which is the twentieth and final volume of his Theological Investigations. The essays embody the last reflections of a wise old man who looks into the future as well as at the present of his Church with equal measures of criticism and hope. He is outspoken in his denunciation of the official “blunders” and the “narrow-minded procedures” that often typify the Vatican’s response to liberal theologians. He is just as critical about the poor quality of Catholic sermons and popular catechesis, but seems resigned to its inevitability. (“We cannot have a fatherland unless we are prepared to live with its philistines and slackers. It is the same with the Church.”)

When it comes to birth control and the ordination of women, he is quite emphatic: “I do not see either in the arguments used or in the formal teaching authority of the Church…a convincing or conclusive reason for assenting to the controversial teaching in Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae [encyclical against birth control] or to the Declaration of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith which seems to exclude the ordination of women in principle and for all time.”

 

[otjm]

With the current global sex abuse scandals, is this end of what we know of the Catholic Church? If No, then what is the future of the Church!,

Of course not, it is not the end of the Church. The Church has had scandals throughout its history, which simply shows that the Church may be indefectible (without sin) but the human beings ailve on earth who are its members (but not its only members) are still sinners. The future of the Church is the same today as it was 100 years ago, 1000 years ago, and the day after the Ascension: to preach the Gospel, to lead all men to Christ, and to be the means of our working out our eternal salvation.

I don’t condone what some (priests/nuns and other Church officials) have done in the Church, and i believe they should be put on trial for their crime and be given the appropriate punishment, but why is the news media sensationalizing just what the Catholic Church has done, what about other Religions, are they not guilty of such crimes?

No other group (except perhaps the LDS members) makes the claims that the Catholic Church makes. And there are always those who hate its goals, or hate some of its members, or have some bone to pick. Secularism is much more an issue today than it was, say, 300 years ago (when most of the picking seemed to come from Protestant denominations) and it may (or may not) be more vicious than what occured then. But the results are the same: the members of the Church are held to a higher standard because they preach a higher standard, and we are made the scapegoat as if that proved that our message was false. The message is not false; but the practice of it is not perfect by a long shot. The message in Greek is metanoia - a turning around, if you will; turning from sin and to Christ. Repent and believe.