Future of the Catholic Church In Light of the Sex Abuse Scandals

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hey Think About It: I would recommend you try reading some G. K. Chesterton. He’s very good and you might find him interesting. I would start with his book “Orthodoxy” and go from there. If you are truly a “free thinker” you shouldn’t have a problem hearing his take on these things. Very worth while. 👍
 
Look at this article about Rabbis: Sexual Abuse by Rabbis - Where is the Public Outcry?

**Last year, 40 minors in this small Jewish community said they were abused. Last year, there were 10 such allegations in the entire Catholic Church in all 50 states. Catholics are fed up with the duplicity. It’s not just Roman Polanski who can rape and run with impunity these days. The politics of child rape is sickening.
**

opposingviews.com/i/sexual-abuse-by-rabbis-where-is-the-public-outcry

In one borough of a city, Brooklyn, in the year of 2008, 40 minors said they where abused in the Jewish community. In the same year there where 10 allegations in the entire Catholic Church in all 50 states. And the fact that the number of allegations is known shows you how there are better child protection systems in place now. Any person getting abused by a person in a position of trust is horrible, but put this in perspective.

And yet the media and the Anti-Catholics make it seem like child abuse is a Catholic problem, when it goes on in other denominations and other religions far more than it does in the Catholic faith.

psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html

The number of Catholic clergy who abused minors is no higher than clergy of other denominations, and no higher than the general adult male population estimation.

Other denominations and other religions are guilty of having sex abuse scandals.Yet the media makes it seem as if it only happens in the Catholic Church.
Why are these cases not publicized in the news??, it is really unfair that the news media points a finger at just the Catholic Church…it really bothers me!
 
Why are these cases not publicized in the news??, it is really unfair that the news media points a finger at just the Catholic Church…it really bothers me!
They are reported; however, the focus is not brought to bear as strongly as it is against the Church. Some of it is front page news, and may have some follow up; some of it does not make the front page.

It is easy to overlook such reports, read them but not pay much attention to them as you go by, or glance and not register since it is just one more crime reported, and you don’t like reading gory reports.

However, there is no question the Catholic Church has garnered far more press over the abuse cases than say, the local school district, or a small congregation or some other organization.

The biggest target gets the most shots…
 
They are reported; however, the focus is not brought to bear as strongly as it is against the Church. Some of it is front page news, and may have some follow up; some of it does not make the front page.

It is easy to overlook such reports, read them but not pay much attention to them as you go by, or glance and not register since it is just one more crime reported, and you don’t like reading gory reports.

However, there is no question the Catholic Church has garnered far more press over the abuse cases than say, the local school district, or a small congregation or some other organization.

The biggest target gets the most shots…
Why should this surprise anyone considering what the Roman Catholic Church is and what its’ members are supposed to be?

The corruption of the best is the worst.
 
With the current global sex abuse scandals, is this end of what we know of the Catholic Church? If No, then what is the future of the Church!, I don’t condone what some (priests/nuns and other Church officials) have done in the Church, and i believe they should be put on trial for their crime and be given the appropriate punishment, but why is the news media sensationalizing just what the Catholic Church has done, what about other Religions, are they not guilty of such crimes?

Thanks

Seeker
Malleus: Perhaps Catholics need to revisit St Peter Damian. This problem has surfaced in the Church before. The difference this time? The response by those in positions to do something about it. Yes - the hierarchy deserves criticism for their poor handling of the numerous situations. And perhaps - they should revist what the Church’s response was by St Peter Damian.
 
The latest pervert to be exposed was on the front page of the New York Times today. 200 deaf boys. May he burn in hell for eternity.
 
The latest pervert to be exposed was on the front page of the New York Times today. 200 deaf boys. May he burn in hell for eternity.
Seems to me the reading this last Sunday was the woman caught in adultery. And Christ’s response was that he did not condemn her with the admonishment of “go and sin no more”.

If Christ did not send her to hell, and if we profess to follow Christ, then perhaps our wish should be something different.

I would have no problem saying that he should spend his days in an 8 by 12 and never come out until his trip to the mortuary. But hell? Hmm, doesn’t seem to mirror the Gospel message.
 
With the current global sex abuse scandals, is this end of what we know of the Catholic Church? If No, then what is the future of the Church!, I don’t condone what some (priests/nuns and other Church officials) have done in the Church, and i believe they should be put on trial for their crime and be given the appropriate punishment, but why is the news media sensationalizing just what the Catholic Church has done, what about other Religions, are they not guilty of such crimes?

Thanks

Seeker
Matthew 16:18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Do the math…
 
I’m thinking that what really needs to die and probably will is the idea (centuries old) that any sin (like abuse) must be kept hidden as it would cause scandal and hurt the church. Look what has happened with the “abuse” problem, it has escaped into the light of day and has “really” caused scandal. In fact it has destroyed the trust/faith of many, causing them to leave the church…whether one considers leaving the church the wrong thing to do in this circumstance is besides the point. Destroy trust and faith can die too…that’s not what the Chuirch should be about!

Keeping things like this secret…has to die! And I believe THIS is the hard lesson that the leadership of the Church is dealing with now and will continue to deal with for the immediate future.
 
The way the church is structured, this kind of thing will happen. The church is very insular, the college of bishops are virtually a self-selected group. This is at odds with the way bishops were chosen early in the church, which was by election through the local synod. Bishops were chosen by the people who knew them, and a reputation for holiness and wisdom was very important.

This might surprise you, but here in China there has not been one news item, it makes absolutely no mention at all that I can tell.
  1. Except, of course, the very earliest of examples. The replacement of Judas Iscariot was chosen by the apostles, as I recall, not a democratic vote… Popular acclaim has its own set of inherent structural risks. In the end, both models depend on the Holy Spirit to overcome human failings in preserving the deposit of the Faith.
  2. Journalism doesn’t exactly work the same in China as it does here. Here it is a for-profit business with the goal of selling papers and getting good TV ratings so commercial time sells. There, journalism is to support the Communist regime(which has chosen a different method of attempting to dominate and control catholicism). Neither type of journalist is very reliable as a sole source, IMO.
 
I’m thinking that what really needs to die and probably will is the idea (centuries old) that any sin (like abuse) must be kept hidden as it would cause scandal and hurt the church. Look what has happened with the “abuse” problem, it has escaped into the light of day and has “really” caused scandal. In fact it has destroyed the trust/faith of many, causing them to leave the church…whether one considers leaving the church the wrong thing to do in this circumstance is besides the point. Destroy trust and faith can die too…that’s not what the Chuirch should be about!

Keeping things like this secret…has to die! And I believe THIS is the hard lesson that the leadership of the Church is dealing with now and will continue to deal with for the immediate future.
I strongly agree that things should not be kept a secret. Then again in some cases the authorities and the medical community advised the Church to act as She did so they need to accept responsibility as well.

Further, those who have left need to re-think their moves. Someone was saying at my church last week that “the Catholic Church will never fail because it is made of people!” I just had to shake my head. He’s the exact sort that will one day leave because he doesn’t have a clue.
 
I strongly agree that things should not be kept a secret. Then again in some cases the authorities and the medical community advised the Church to act as She did so they need to accept responsibility as well.
How about the police and newspapers that ignored the complaints for the same reasons? They are never called to task because it detracts from the narrative being put forth to denigrate the Church.

Some things, however, should be kept secret. The identities of minor children who were abused, for example, should not be made public.

There are also other matters of confidentiality that created huge problems: attorney-client privilege, doctor-patient confidentiality, and the Seal of Confession. Without making new policy with exceptions for persons deemed to be an eminent danger to themselves and others these sorts of rules created classic no-win scenarios.
  • Marty Lund
 
Things to remember:
  1. Bishops relied on the best professional advice at the time. They were told these people could be rehabilitated.
  2. Unfortunately, they didn’t apply canon law; a trial, then the offender being unfrocked. I’ve read this is because post-Vat. II this was seen as ‘not the done thing’.
I get the impression that those whipping up this controversy wouldn’t be happy even if our Pope flogged himself publicly in St. Peter’s square.
 
This too shall pass.
It is a systemic problem.

The way the church is structured, this kind of thing will happen. The church is very insular, the college of bishops are virtually a self-selected group. This is at odds with the way bishops were chosen early in the church, which was by election through the local synod. Bishops were chosen by the people who knew them, and a reputation for holiness and wisdom was very important.

The early bishops you know of (and treasure the memory of) were chosen by the local church as a synod: Irenaeus, Ambrose of Milan, Augustine of Hippo, Vincent of Lerins …

Now we have something of an institution in place. In some ways, the institution will need to protect itself from attacks ‘for the greater good’. Information is power, so the control of information can be a powerful tool. One sees this with police departments: if the general public loses faith in it’s own police force, they might take the law into their own hands, and that could be worse! So instead, we have this code of silence. Protect the institution at all costs … loose lips sink ships.
This might surprise you, but here in China there has not been one news item, it makes absolutely no mention at all that I can tell.

The only way I was able to know anything about it was to read comments here on CAF.

Perhaps it is because no one here gives a damn, I don’t know. But if that were true, then perhaps the opposite is also true: it makes news where people care about the church.
Very good insight. I also believe it is our sex crazed Western culture which inevitably affects many Catholics along with some priests.
 
With the current global sex abuse scandals, is this end of what we know of the Catholic Church? If No, then what is the future of the Church!, I don’t condone what some (priests/nuns and other Church officials) have done in the Church, and i believe they should be put on trial for their crime and be given the appropriate punishment, but why is the news media sensationalizing just what the Catholic Church has done, what about other Religions, are they not guilty of such crimes?

Thanks

Seeker
Because the greater issue is not the fact that there were bad priests, but because the hierarchy reportedly adopted policies to conceal that the abuse was going on and abusive priests were in some cases transferred from parish to parish when accusations arose. Obviously the abusers themselves have significant mental problems. But what’s the excuse of their supervising bishops and cardinals? In other words, the most salient issue being raised by victims and the media is the handling of these abusive priests rather than the fact that there were abusive priests.
 
Thou art Rock, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.
 
Obviously the abusers themselves have significant mental problems. But what’s the excuse of their supervising bishops and cardinals? In other words, the most salient issue being raised by victims and the media is the handling of these abusive priests rather than the fact that there were abusive priests.
It is always easy to “Monday morning quarterback”. What is not so easy is to have perfect judgement in the middle of a crisis.

There are a number of issues to keep in mind.

It is of very recent history that psychology has amounted to a science widely recognized, and a not too brief survey would show that since its recognition as a science, there have been untold theories about the human person, some of which are best left in the dustbin. In other words, theories have abounded, to be dropped, discarded, forgotten, or set aside in favor of a new theory. It has often taken the appearance of “flavor of the month”.

And it was not until very recent that it was even understood how damaging sexual abuse could be.

Coupled with that, there is no particular reason to presume that male homosexuals started entering the priesthhood at or not long after Vatican 2. The priesthood, particularly because it has had celibacy as a rule, has been a perfect hiding place for a male homosexual, continent or otherwise. No on questioned why this young man was not married; he had the arts, music, a theatrical position, tremendous adulation, set on a pedistal, an intellectual persuit, lace, androgenous dress code; the list goes on and on.

Homosexual activity seems to have increased since the sexual revolution, or perhaps it has simply become more visibile. Prior to the onset of AIDS, it was at least somewhat safer in that most sexual diseases were generally treatable.

However, whether a male homosexual was active or not, the priesthood provided an almost perfect “hiding place in plain view”.

And there is no reason to presume that the bishops we had prior to V 2 were all straight.

And added to that fact is the attitude that most Catholics had towards their priest; he was considered wholely beyond criticism in general (with the exceptions of the ones who were known to be alcoholic,) and one simply did not presume that one so consecrated could be sexually involved with children.

In general, there was no idea how damaging sexual abuse could be. People simply had not studied the issue in any rigorous an controlled fashion; and so if a bishop foundout that a priest was having sex with boys, he might be called on the carpet, but it was presumed to be a sin and nothing more (that is, not something that caused significant and possibly life-long damage to the victim).

On top of all of this was the issue of scandal to the community, particularly the Catholic community. Everyone could continue on to not acknowledge that Father so and so was gay if it was just kept under wraps. Women loved them (why wouldn’t they, as they were no sexual threat), men respected them because that was how they were brought up, and maybe the guy was a bit effeminate, but then, so what (there was a bit of naivety on the part of many who just didn’t ask questions). So if Father so and so was caught messing with a kid, well, he went to confession, and he might get moved to another postion, but all was taken care of.

And later, as some of the ramifications became known, bishops relied on psychologists who said that the priest could be cured of the problem; so Father so and so was sent off to a sabatical retreat, to get “shrunk”, and then after going to confession, he was reassigned. After all, the experts said they could cure him, and he promised he was cured.

And on top of all of this, vicitms just didn’t come forward. The first case I know of in our archdiocese was in the 1980’s, when one priest was convicted. A long time later, people were coming forward indicating they, too had been assaulted by him.

So the net of it was that the bishop might hear of one incident; he had no knowledge of how many people the preist had abused as it appeared to be an isolated incident, the bishop was trying to protect the laity from scandal, he had no idea what damage was being wrought, experts said they could cure the guy, and it just was not that significant.

We know now it was extremely significant. But that is now, not 50 years ago or more. The priest I know of was abusing kids in the early 1960’s and what did we know? All I knew was he made me really uncomfortable and I avoided him like the plague. As a 15 year old, I had no clue what he was doing. And I doubt the bishop did either.

Again, a priest was sent to be “cured”; everyone says he is “good to go”, and nothing else seems to be coming up; problem addressed and fixed, and so he was sent back to a parish; and it might be 3, 5, 10 years or more before a report makes its way to the bishop.

If one has taken the time to read the stories of some of the victims, one hears a repeated theme; boy gets abused; boy reports to parent(s); parents come unglued that son would make such an accusation, and the matter was dropped, never to be spoken of again. It wasn’t just the bishops who did not deal well with the issue; it was all too often the parents who did not raise the alarm.

I personally know at least two of the attorneys who have sued the archdiocese, and the stories they have told me are enough to make one vomit. Victims have been treated like dirt, accused of sexually enticing the priest, threatened with excommunication; the list goes on and on.
 
Matthew 16:18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Do the math…
Well said indeed!
These crimes have been committed by people in respected positions of authority in The Church and it is right and proper that these crimes come into the light totally and wholly and be dealt with and hopefully with transparency and with justice for the victims - although these victims will probably bear lifelong scars and how repair that!
For those who have committed these crimes may they find heartfelt sorrow and repentance and may God be merciful to them.
As for The Church as an institution She will prevail absolutely and hopefully the stronger in quality if perhaps not in quantity after this truly horrific time is a matter of our recorded history and we are hopefully moving into our future having isolated the why’s and wherefore’s all this has happened with corrective measures firmly in place for that future. May God grant the likes of it will never occur again.
I guess we all have to ask ourselves where our Faith is placed - in The Church as a functioning human institution, or in The Church as the Mystical Body of Christ on earth with Christ as our Head and our Foundation and with a guarantee by Him that “the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”.

TS
 
I get the impression that those whipping up this controversy wouldn’t be happy even if our Pope flogged himself publicly in St. Peter’s square

There would be a public outcry if he used a whip made of leather.
 
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